Lost

[Jay 37,337]

Finally found time to watch the clip show that preceded the finale

Damon and Carlton said 2 things that I don't think were explicitly said in the show:

-That Ben saw Locke's despair as an opportunity to go back to the island and re-claim his position as leader of the Others. "His one goal in life is to be the leader and ruler of the island"

-That Ben didn't know that Eloise Hawking was in L.A., and that, along with the point above, was why he killed Locke. "But Locke has a very important piece of information that Ben doesn't have...that name means something to Ben. She knows a way to get back to the island, so all he has to do is kill Locke."

But wasn't Ben already visiting Eloise in her church before he killed Locke?

[Datameister 2,041]

Interesting. Both of those make sense. (And no, Ben didn't visit Eloise in LA until after Locke's death.)

[Jay 37,337]

Oh OK. so we saw him talking to Eloise before we saw him kill Locke, but chronologically they happened the other way around. gotcha

[Datameister 2,041]

Exactly.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I want Seasons 1 and 2 on Blu, but I don't want to spend $80 for them! They would be $100 but Amazon is having a sale. If I buy any two seasons I save $20.

[LongTallJodie 59]

$40 for a 22 episode season on Blu-Ray is actually a pretty smokin' deal. I suspect each season will street for $65 to $70 on store shelves. I'd jump on the Amazon coupon if I actually had any money right now. No television show looks more amazing in HD than Lost - the Blu-Ray even bests the HDTV broadcasts, as those are compressed and only in 720p!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

$40 is a very good deal. I may go ahead and take advantage of the limited time offer. I haven't seen the first two seasons in awhile. It'll be nice to go back and watch them all with the knowledge we've gained so far.

[Red 75]

Does Jacob's theme remind anyone else of the Ark theme from Raiders?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Not really.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Does Jacob's theme remind anyone else of the Ark theme from Raiders?

Yeah, I've been thinking that too. They both have a foreboding, almost religious feel, which I thought was quite a departure for Giacchino's Lost music. The whole finale was scored amazingly well, with one of my favorite moments being the opening scene. The music conveys right away that we're in for something special and far different than anything else on the show before. Great stuff - it's just too bad we have to wait probably a year for a CD release.

[King Mark 3,630]

See Gia can write good themes. Good thematic material leaves an immediate good impression that makes you want to listen to it on c.d. It doesn't need to "grow on you" after listening to the c.d. 5 times and seeing the film to "convince yourself" (Star Trek)

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I think the general concensus is in agreement with you that Star Trek, though solid, isn't as good as the Lost scores.

[Red 75]

I think the general concensus is in agreement with you that Star Trek, though solid, isn't as good as the Lost scores.

I'd say a majority of Giacchino's work isn't as good as the Lost scores. They're just that good.

[Datameister 2,041]

KM, I agree that Mikey G. can write good themes, obviously, but I disagree with your premise that they have to grab you immediately. While it's obviously nice to know that you like something from the get-go, some of his stuff takes me quite a while to get into. I still vividly remember when I thought all his music for Lost was unbelievably simplistic and annoying! I cannot express how glad I am that I gave it enough chances for its greatness to sink in. I actually had a much easier time getting into Star Trek, though I currently find the Lost scores to be better nonetheless.

Does Jacob's theme remind anyone else of the Ark theme from Raiders?

Not at all.

[Jay 37,337]

And...a theme breakdown for you, Jason! Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

* Eloise's theme: She looks at Daniel's journal.

* Locke's first theme: He walks into camp with the dead boar.

* Ben's theme: "When I left the Island, he stepped in."

* Some variation of Locke's second theme that seems to represent Richard and Locke and the Monster and who knows what else: "He's a kind of adviser."

* Subtle and debatable variation on the main theme: "...I watched them all die."

* Very quiet statement of O6 theme: Jack and Kate argue in the tent.

* Weird, subtle statement of Eloise's theme: She describes Daniel taking her to the bomb in '53.

* An unidentified theme that mainly relates to Daniel and Eloise: "And I think that there's a way for you to take it all back."

* Jack's third motif (which I JUST added to the Lostpedia article in S3): "Your son came back because he'd figured out a way to change things."

* Daniel/Eloise theme again: Eloise closes Daniel's eyes.

* Locke/Richard/Monster/whatever theme again: Ben and Locke talk as Richard saves the other Locke.

* Jack's third motif again: He and Kate talk about Locke and his alleged craziness.

* Sawyer's love theme: He and Juliet talk on the dock.

* Saywer's theme (not the love theme): Juliet gets into the sub while Sawyer just stands there on the dock.

* Jack's third motif: He swims into the tunnels.

* Locke's first theme: He talks to all the Others about going to see Jacob.

* Sawyer's love theme: "Real world...I don't even know what that means anymore."

* Kate's theme: She gets handcuffed in the sub.

* Second traveling theme: The Others depart from the beach. Interestingly, this is the first time it's been associated with anyone other than the survivors.

* Mystery theme: Locke tells Ben why they're REALLY going to see Jacob, leaving Ben gaping as the Others walk by.

Joe, I just had time to go skip through "Follow The Leader", checking out the music in the scenes you specified.... It was very helpful, thank you! Though some of the "themes" are almost barely themes to me, at least from the examples specified.... I did like Eloise's theme, and Jack's third motif. Sawyer's Love Theme is nice too. I also think I'll finally recognize Kate's theme if I hear it again!

I also just re-watched the two big Jacob scenes from the finale. Jacob's Theme IS in fact really, really good. I'm sure there'll be some great variations on it in the final season.

Oh, and I'm more convinced than ever that the final white light at the end signifies that our 1977 Losties will flash forward back to 2007. When Richard says in Follow The Leader that he "watched them all die", he was probably referring to the fact that it was known that they were all at the Swan when "The Incident" happened, which probably killed everyone there with the except of Pierre Change... so he assumed they died there. The fact that their bodies where never found probably didn't mean much considering the fact that I'm sure there will be lots of damage to the area. The only thing I can't guess is whether or not a living Juliet will flash to 2007, or just Jack/Kate/Hurley/Sayid/Miles/Sawyer/Rose/Bernard. On the one hand I don't see a reason why she wouldn't, unless the bomb's explosion killed her before the energy can flash the other surivors, but on the other hand, it would lessen the impact of the goodbye her and Sawyer had if she flashes forward and is well and fine.

[Datameister 2,041]

Joe, I just had time to go skip through "Follow The Leader", checking out the music in the scenes you specified.... It was very helpful, thank you! Though some of the "themes" are almost barely themes to me, at least from the examples specified.... I did like Eloise's theme, and Jack's third motif. Sawyer's Love Theme is nice too. I also think I'll finally recognize Kate's theme if I hear it again!

You're absolutely welcome! Some of those statements are pretty brief and subtle - just Giacchino kind of musically "mentioning" the themes in the score - but most of them have a pretty firm standing as actual themes. There are a few that are basically just common variations on other existing themes, though.

When Richard says in Follow The Leader that he "watched them all die", he was probably referring to the fact that it was known that they were all at the Swan when "The Incident" happened, which probably killed everyone there with the except of Pierre Change... so he assumed they died there. The fact that their bodies where never found probably didn't mean much considering the fact that I'm sure there will be lots of damage to the area.

Mmmm...I still don't buy it. It was too emphatic - it seemed very much like he was saying that he stood right next to the Losties as they died. And nothing happens on this show without a reason anymore...they're gonna have to explain that comment somehow. I think there's still more to come that we haven't seen.

Oh, and I'm more convinced than ever that the final white light at the end signifies that our 1977 Losties will flash forward back to 2007. The only thing I can't guess is whether or not a living Juliet will flash to 2007, or just Jack/Kate/Hurley/Sayid/Miles/Sawyer/Rose/Bernard. On the one hand I don't see a reason why she wouldn't, unless the bomb's explosion killed her before the energy can flash the other surivors, but on the other hand, it would lessen the impact of the goodbye her and Sawyer had if she flashes forward and is well and fine.

I dunno. In any case, they all flash to 2007 and Juliet is with them, she's still gonna be significantly injured. She survived the fall, but she wasn't looking her best afterward.

I guess all the standard options are:

* Juliet dies; the Losties on the surface don't. Everyone's still in 1977. The Incident has unfolded exactly as it was supposed to; now the button will have to be pressed every 108 minutes.

* The pocket of energy is wiped out, and flight 815 never crashes. But the current versions of the Losties are still in 1977.

* The pocket of energy is wiped out, and flight 815 never crashes. We see their lives unfolding after that.

* Every live person in the vicinity gets flashed to 2007. Juliet is dead, so she doesn't join them.

* Every live person in the vicinity gets flashed to 2007. Juliet is alive but injured.

[Incanus 5,714]

I just remembered that Richard refered Eloise as the Leader of the Others when he knocked her out so she could not go with Jack and Sayid.

So Eloise was the Leader of the Others, then Widmore and then Ben. Richard serves all leaders to Jacob's instructions as it seems and he is the counsellor and the guide on Jacob's behalf. It is still a bit uncertain has any of the Leaders seen Jacob themselves or has there always been a mediator. From Ben's reaction he assumed that the other Leaders had direct access to Jacob who chose to speak with them and not him. Was Eloise forced to abandon her role as the Leader or did she leave voluntarily? Did she leave in order to save Daniel or to mold him into something that could change the future events? Widmore had a daughter with a woman off the Island in which case Richard and Ben chose to banish him for the indiscretion. Ben was banished because he used the Wheel to move the Island. These Leaders seem to be a pretty temporary and easily displaced as far as we know now. And still their continue their work off the Island, fulfilling their own or Jacob's plan so I guess they had a role in his designs beyond Leadership. Except for Ben

[Vaderbait1 1]

I'm thinking of giving the Lost scores another shot. i briefly listened to Season...2 I think it was awhile back but didn't really pay much attention. The music was always good in the show but I had doubts it would hold up on a CD by itself. What season is the best one to listen to?

[Jay 37,337]

The second disc of season 3 is pretty fun and covers a lot of themes and emotions

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm thinking of giving the Lost scores another shot. i briefly listened to Season...2 I think it was awhile back but didn't really pay much attention. The music was always good in the show but I had doubts it would hold up on a CD by itself. What season is the best one to listen to?

Start with Season 1.

[LongTallJodie 59]

It probably WOULD be best to just start with the Season 1 disc. You'll get a solid overview of the early major themes. If you like what you hear, just pick them up chronologically after that, since MG develops and layers upon his previous work with each season.

If or when you pick up one of the CDs, you should definitely check out Datameister's article on musical themes at Lostpedia, as its an invaluable guide to the first-time listener, particularly since the CDs don't come with any real liner notes to speak of.

[Datameister 2,041]

Yeah, I'd just start from the beginning. All four soundtracks are VERY good, if you ask me, but it probably makes the most sense to start with the first season.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The Lost soundtracks are an experience. They tell a story from start to finish. The best way to listen is from the beginning to the end.

One thing I like to do is put them in season 1 as I drive to and from work, and then season 2, and so forth...and just listen to it all over the period of a week and a half.

[King Mark 3,630]

A lot of the action stuff sounds the same

It's best to make a "best of" cues from all the seasons.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

* Juliet dies; the Losties on the surface don't. Everyone's still in 1977. The Incident has unfolded exactly as it was supposed to; now the button will have to be pressed every 108 minutes.

Of those options you listed, this seems the most likely one to me.

* The pocket of energy is wiped out, and flight 815 never crashes. But the current versions of the Losties are still in 1977.

Doesn't seem to make sense, of course.

* The pocket of energy is wiped out, and flight 815 never crashes. We see their lives unfolding after that.

Second-likeliest.

* Every live person in the vicinity gets flashed to 2007. Juliet is dead, so she doesn't join them.

* Every live person in the vicinity gets flashed to 2007. Juliet is alive but injured.

Why would they flash to 2007? If they time jump, wouldn't it be suspiciously lucky to jump back to "the present"?

[Jay 37,337]

No, it wouldn't be suspiciously lucky at all..... they'd return to THEIR present. They'd return to exactly where they are supposed to if they never time-traveled at all.

The only "coincidence" is that that happens to line up with where we are following the other characters (Ben, Sun, Lapidus, Fake Locke, Desmond, Penny, etc) at the moment - because both sets of characters have experienced 3 years of post-Flight 815 time

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

But how is it their present? Especially for Sawyer, who's been in this time longer than the others. Seems way too convenient to me.

[Jay 37,337]

Incorrect!

EVERYBODY is the same age - Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Rose, Bernard, Hurley, Sayid, Jack, Kate, Sun, Lapidis, Aaron - have ALL been living for 3 years since Flight 815. The only one who is a different "age" is Ben, who jumped forward 10 months when he warped to Tunisia. Locke was also not the same age - when he jumped from Tunisia he popped right into 2007 - but he's dead now, so that doesn't really matter.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

When Richard says in Follow The Leader that he "watched them all die", he was probably referring to the fact that it was known that they were all at the Swan when "The Incident" happened, which probably killed everyone there with the except of Pierre Change... so he assumed they died there. The fact that their bodies where never found probably didn't mean much considering the fact that I'm sure there will be lots of damage to the area.

No that's not what he was referring to. Stop saying that!

Dr. Chang and Radzinsky survived without major injury, and all the others were as close to the drill as they were.

[Jay 37,337]

Hmm.. If that's not what he was referring to, then that means you think he will later observe some other event in which he thinks they die (or they DO die).... which means that you believe they won't flash to 2007 as a result of "The Incident"?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I was about to go ahead and explain it. But then I realized, they couldn't have died after being flashed to 2007 because Richard already said he saw them die before that.

Woops!

Hmm, so yeah. Then whatever they did didn't work, and they're still in 1977. Unless they got flashed to like 2006 or something. It's Richard's wording that makes me strongly believe they didn't die because of Jughead. "I watched them all die."

[Datameister 2,041]

It's Richard's wording that makes me strongly believe they didn't die because of Jughead. "I watched them all die."

Exactly. And it couldn't be a simple case of them not planning things out properly in advance - this was just a few episodes before the actual event, and they've ostensibly known what was coming for quite some time now.

Goodness, I hope we have not seen the last of the real John Locke. The more I think about it, the more depressing it is that he's truly dead. It's kind of funny, though - I wonder if there's ever been a character whose death story took so long to tell. I mean, we found out that someone had died in the season 3 finale, but we didn't know it was Locke until the season 4 finale, and we didn't know he was seriously and irrevocably dead until the season 5 finale.

Really, at this point, if things just progress the way they "should" in my theories of choice, I'd be disappointed. Juliet would be dead, Locke would be dead, and Sayid would probably die very soon as well. No bueno.

By the way, something kind of cool - think back to "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham." There was some great foreshadowing in that episode, though we didn't know it at the time. In the hospital, Locke tells Jack that Christian said hello, to which Jack replies that his father is dead. Locke says, "Well, he didn't look dead to me."

[Jay 37,337]

Yes - the last 3 finales in a row have all ended with Locke in a box

[Red 75]

I kinda doubt we've seen the last of the real John Locke, I just can't see his story ending here. We know he's certainly dead at the moment and that he was somehow used by the Man in Black (Esau/Jacob's enemy/the Adversary/etc.) in his plan to kill Jacob but I think there's possibility for him to actually be resurrected next season. After all he's been saved from death and healed many times, we even saw Jacob (possibly) reviving him after his fall (foreshadowing?).

[Datameister 2,041]

I certainly think there's a possibility - and it seems like too great an opportunity to pass up, you know? Killing off Ana Lucia or Michael or Eko, that's one thing...but when you've got a fantastic actor like Terry O'Quinn playing such a great character on the show, you don't just give him the boot. I suspect and hope that we will indeed be seeing more of the real Locke. As you said, one very real possibility is him simply being resurrected by the Island or Jacob. (One snag is that Jacob himself is dead...but maybe there's some way around that.) The other possibility is that the explosion of Jughead does indeed make it so 815 never crashes, so we end up seeing Locke as a broken man in a wheelchair landing in LA. Of course, if they take that route, they'll all have to end up on the Island SOMEHOW...but it'd just be too weird with none of them remembering what had happened over the course of the last five seasons.

It's funny...I don't really like ANY of the options I can see for this coming season. There's something wrong with all of them. And you know what? I fully expect them to create a freaking awesome final season in spite of that. They've come with some solution that is totally satisfying and totally weird, I'm sure. It's going to be great, even though I can't figure out how.

[AlohaBlunts 1]

Perhaps upon detonation, the pocket of energy just engulfed the explosion and they basically just cancelled each other out. So there was no explosion and the source stopped sucking in all the metal.

it may have occurred to most of you, but no one has outwardly stated it yet. so, in an effort to claim my stake as leader of the obvious, i will now say some things.

i believe miles was right when he said that jack detonating the bomb is what caused "the incident". of course, if an H-bomb goes off in your vicinity, you'd probably be dead (so technically all the losties should be dead). but, just as desmond turning the key in 2004 was the fail safe for the swan station, the h-bomb in 1977 is the fail safe for the pocket of energy that was being drilled into. in other words, radzinsky and crew realized that if the energy ever became unstable, they could detonate an h-bomb underground to control it, and that became the fail safe that desmond activated in 2004.

so that means that the losties are still alive (except for Juliet). the question is what happens to them? do they get transported to 2007? do they start having "flashes before their eyes" like desmond? perhaps they get flashes of what is happening in the present (Ben being manipulated by Fake Locke, Jacob dying, etc.)?

at this point it's almost impossible to tell what's going to happen in season six. DARLTON!!!!!

[Elmo Lewis 6]

And...a theme breakdown for you, Jason! Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

* Eloise's theme: She looks at Daniel's journal.

* Locke's first theme: He walks into camp with the dead boar.

* Ben's theme: "When I left the Island, he stepped in."

* Some variation of Locke's second theme that seems to represent Richard and Locke and the Monster and who knows what else: "He's a kind of adviser."

* Subtle and debatable variation on the main theme: "...I watched them all die."

* Very quiet statement of O6 theme: Jack and Kate argue in the tent.

* Weird, subtle statement of Eloise's theme: She describes Daniel taking her to the bomb in '53.

* An unidentified theme that mainly relates to Daniel and Eloise: "And I think that there's a way for you to take it all back."

* Jack's third motif (which I JUST added to the Lostpedia article in S3): "Your son came back because he'd figured out a way to change things."

* Daniel/Eloise theme again: Eloise closes Daniel's eyes.

* Locke/Richard/Monster/whatever theme again: Ben and Locke talk as Richard saves the other Locke.

* Jack's third motif again: He and Kate talk about Locke and his alleged craziness.

* Sawyer's love theme: He and Juliet talk on the dock.

* Saywer's theme (not the love theme): Juliet gets into the sub while Sawyer just stands there on the dock.

* Jack's third motif: He swims into the tunnels.

* Locke's first theme: He talks to all the Others about going to see Jacob.

* Sawyer's love theme: "Real world...I don't even know what that means anymore."

* Kate's theme: She gets handcuffed in the sub.

* Second traveling theme: The Others depart from the beach. Interestingly, this is the first time it's been associated with anyone other than the survivors.

* Mystery theme: Locke tells Ben why they're REALLY going to see Jacob, leaving Ben gaping as the Others walk by.

Joe, we need to start talking you into doing a track-by-track description of the new CD.

[Datameister 2,041]

I'd be game for that! Are we talking a breakdown of all the uses of themes like I did for that episode, or just a general liner-notes-ish sort of thing?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Of course, I'd go for the breakdown. I could flesh it out during the summer, describing what scene the music is each cue accompanying.

Depends on what you feel like.

[Datameister 2,041]

I can do that! =) 'Twould be fun. I'll get back to ya.

[Red 75]

After "The Incident" I wanted to do a top five Lost season finales, so here it is:

1) "The Incident" - Season 5 (really a culmination of all the season enders that came before it)

2) "Through the Looking Glass" - Season 3

3) "Exodus" - Season 1

4) "Live Together, Die Alone" - Season 2 (this is subject to switch to the #3 spot)

5) "There's No Place Like Home" - Season 4

[Datameister 2,041]

I would put "Through the Looking Glass" and "Exodus" in the first and second positions, respectively. The rest is harder for me to decide.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

1) "The Incident" - Season 5

2) "Live Together, Die Alone" - Season 2

3) "Exodus" - Season 1

4) "Through the Looking Glass" - Season 3

5) "There's No Place Like Home" - Season 4

I never thought season 2's finale could be topped. Not only is it the perfect conclusion to the season it belongs it, it's a tension-building episode like few.

[King Mark 3,630]

Season 2

Season 5

Season 4

Season 1

Season 3

[Datameister 2,041]

What's with the lack of love for the amazing "Through the Looking Glass"?

EDIT: Also, I have a prediction. Remember how little Locke drew a picture of what was ostensibly the monster killing someone? I think the monster/Esau/Jacob's opponent/whatever visited him when he was really young, to kinda scope him out, and I think we're going to see that in a flashback later on.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

It'd be a regular episode (and a predictable and unevenly paced one at that) if it were not for the flashforward twist at the end.

Except for all the scenes at the Looking Glass, of course.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Through The Looking Glass would have been mind blowing for me, but I read some unmarked spoilers and already knew it was a flash-forward.

I'd rank them as:

1. ??? - Season 6

2. The Incident - Season 5

3. Exodus - Season 1

4. There's No Place Like Home - Season 4

5. Live Together, Die Alone - Season 2

6. Through The Looking Glass - Season 3

[Datameister 2,041]

Well...you asked.

[EDIT: If a theme is listed without a track time, that means it just starts at the beginning. Easier than typing 0:00 every time. ]

Giving Up the Ghost

0:05: flashforward theme #2 on synths and strings

Locke-ing Horns

life and death on piano, Charlie's addiction on strings

Lost Away - Or Is It?

Sayid's theme

Backgammon Gambit

till 0:28: Locke's first theme

0:57: Kate's theme

Time and Time Again

0:33-0:49: chords of Desmond's theme in high strings

0:52: freighter theme

The Constant

Desmond's theme

3:16: four alternating notes that should probably be on the Lostpedia article...not sure what they are

Maternity Hell

0:24: Sun and Jin quietly in the trombones

1:33 main theme in high strings

Karma Jin-itiative

Rose and Bernard

Ji Yeon

life and death

1:36 : Sun and Jin on solo cello in counterpoint to life and death on piano

Michael's Right to Remain Wrong

Michael and Walt till 0:55

Bodies and Bungalows

0:39: Others' action theme (even though the Others aren't the ones attacking OR inhabiting the Barracks!)

Benundrum

0:08-0:20: Ben's theme

Hostile Negotiations

0:52-1:06: REALLY subtle variation of Ben's theme

1:09: Ben's theme

Locke-About

new variation on Locke's second theme

1:24: Locke's first theme

5:27: freighter theme

There's No Place Like Home

Oceanic 6 theme

Nadia on Your Life

Sayid's theme

0:52: traveling theme #2

C4-titude

chords of main theme

0:30: freighter theme

Of Mice and Ben

0:41: Oceanic 6 theme

Keamy Away From Him

2:22: season finale action theme

Timecrunch

1:16: traveling theme #2 (WHAT AN AMAZING MOMENT!)

Can't Kill Keamy

0:07: main theme

0:45: Oceanic 6 theme

1:20: main theme quietly on harp

Bobbing for Freighters

Kate's theme

0:23: freighter theme

0:45: Ben's theme

1:39: explosives/Monster/Black Rock theme

2:32: explosives/Monster/Black Rock theme

3:40-4:14: main theme

4:14: freighter theme

4:28: Sun and Jin

4:42: freighter theme

...whew. No wonder I like this cue!

Locke of the Island

0:39: Ben's theme

1:34: Locke's first theme

2:37: Ben's theme

6:19: mystery theme

Lying for the Island

0:10: really subtle statement of Locke's first theme...maybe

0:37: Locke's first theme for sure

2:30: Desmond's theme

Landing Party

Oceanic 6 theme

Hoffs-Drawlar

0:05: Jack's first motif slowly in the high strings

1:52: really subtle statement of Ben's theme

3:33: mystery theme

[King Mark 3,630]

what's that theme in the Season 2 End Credits?

it's the mystery theme?what is it for?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

End credits? They're all the same. It has always sounded like a variation of "World's Worst Beach Party" to me.