Film Theory Project on JW

[IMAXGirl 0]

I'm doing a project for my film theory class on John Williams and I was wondering if anyone might be interested in offering some input. The basic idea behind my project is to examine (some of) the scores that Williams has composed for different directors--most likely Spielberg and Stone--and compare and contrast these scores and ask the ask question of how and why they are different. Why does he compose one way for Spielberg pictures and another way for Stone? Or what is the significance of this difference.

Anyone have any thoughts? I know this is kind of out there, but I figured this would be the best place to find people who might be able to speak intelligently on the subject. Any ideas you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

[Miguel Andrade 1,725]

Hello, and welcome to this place.

I for one, would love tor ead your paper on Williams, and encourage you an everyne else who may care about this subject to write more ananlisys on Williams and his work.

Now, regarding your ideas, I could tell you the following:

The way I see it, you coule write a paper on Williams variety of styles, sollely on Spielberg projects. The long period during which they've been together, and the deversity of subject matters covered can provide you numerous diferent styles to analyse, from the quasi-rural americana style of Sugarland Express, to the Stravinskian Jaws, or the avan-garde of Close Encounters, or the full swashbuckling of 1941 or the Indiana Jone series or Hook, or to his more intimate writting of Always, Schinlder's List or Saving Private Ryan (each of this still retainign a very own musical personality if you will), or the more ethonographic driven Amistad or the jazzy Catch me if you Can... And all the others... There's such a wide diversity that you would spend all your time studying these before you could look into the Stone/Williams direction.

About the Stone trilogy -- I call it that way, because I feel it as a very close group of films -- I would say that they have a very close musical identitie. They all belong and touch the same subject matters, so in a way when you begin with Born in the Fourth of July and end with Nixon you kind of come full circle -- that's a obvious simplification, but in a simple way, I think you can put things that way. So the music is very close, stylistical within this films, not because they were written for a same director, but above all, because the three films kind of connect one with the others -- think as this as the Indiana Jones series, were the music kind of follow always the same kind of style, even if the films, and places ans some carachters ans situatios are compeltelly diferent.

Well, this are my two cents. I wish you teh ebst of luck on your work. If you need any help, fell free to coantact me privatelly at miguel.jw@sapo.pt

[Incanus 5,890]

Hi and welcome to our MB!

Here is alink to my JFK analysis thread on the MB (I hope it helps a little if you want to compare the Oliver Stone scores):

http://www.jwfan.net/index.php?name=PNphpB...4737&highlight=

As Miguel said the Spielberg/Williams collaborations have been so full of variety they could be analysed all on their own and that would make a lengthy and broad essay.

Oliver Stone and Williams collaborations are written very much in the same musical style and are further united by the main instrument, the trumpet (played on all three scores by Tim Morrison the principal trumpetist of Boston Pops). It is featured prominently in all three scores and fits very well in the Americana sound Williams uses to enhance the subject matters of each film. The scores are similar and different at the same time. The three films all deal with politics in some form and are set in roughly the same period (1960's and 70's) and have some unifying factors (the Vietnam war being perhaps the most strongest connection). Born on the Fourth of July is lyrical but has harsh and dissonant section describing Vietnam experiences of the main character Ron Kovic.

JFK has an inspired main theme that represents the nobility and hopeful athmosphere of the early 1960's and lyrical and beautiful music representing both the tragedy of the assassination and the family of the main character district attorney Jim Garrison. As a counter weight for it so to speak is the conspiracy music that underscores the assassination and intrigue behind it. The music is at times dissonant and seemingly chaotic even. The score was written in part even before Williams had seen the movie and that is why he wrote some of the material in broader terms. Still the score fits the movie perfectly. It is still unclear what pieces Williams wrote before hand and which he "spotted" with Stone.

Nixon is a character portrait in music as much as it is a dramatic score. It is deep and thoughtful score that touches different sides Nixon's persona and tries to tie all the elements of the drama together. Perhaps the most conventional of the three. Williams uses more motifs than themes and the score has a feel of dichotomy as even the Nixon's character was so many sided. There are similar conspiracy elements in the music as did JFK and Williams(or Stone) even refers to a JFK snare drum motif in the scene where JFk is seen landing on the Love Field air port in Dallas on the day he was murdered as if to tie the two movies thematically together. Williams also uses very subtle effects to hint at things to come or that have happened (e.g. there are synthsied explosions under some cues as if to remind us subconsciously about the bombing of Kambodia or other horrors Nixon administration was part in). So it is very complex and dark score compared to the two others.

I hope my ramblings have been even little useful. Best of luck with your project!

[Miguel Andrade 1,725]

JFK has an inspired main theme that represents the nobility and hopeful athmosphere of the early 1960's and lyrical and beautiful music representing both the tragedy of the assassination and the family of the main character district attorney Jim Garrison. As a counter weight for it so to speak is the conspiracy music that underscores the assassination and intrigue behind it. The music is at times dissonant and seemingly chaotic even. The score was written in part even before Williams had seen the movie and that is why he wrote some of the material in broader terms. Still the score fits the movie perfectly. It is still unclear what pieces Williams wrote before hand and which he "spotted" with Stone.  

I do think, acording to what Williams said in some interviews, that he recorded all the music before the main shooting. He later returned to re-record -- and maybe do some re-arranging --due to sinc issues. At a point he film was suposed to be jsut a documnetary, and less of a dramatization of events -- not the ones cocerning the Kennedy assassination, but of the Garrison quest for the truth.

If you care to check it, the music in teh film is mostly diferent recordings than the ones on the CD.

On a side note, Morrison has left the Boston Symphony and Pops Orchestras a few years ago, to become a session musician it Hollywood, and has been playing as first trumpet in most of Williams studio recordings.

[Incanus 5,890]

Thanks for clarifying the things Miguel. I have always been interested how Williams scored JFK. Most of the music on the album really sounds different form the movie and some great music is absent from the album. I always thought Williams could not havbe written all the music without spotting the film. Some of the pieces just fit too perfectly to the finished film to be precomposed.

[King Mark 3,975]

Another Girl..wait,what happened to the one just before?

k.m.

[Incanus 5,890]

Another Girl..wait,what happened to the one just before?

k.m.

The one just before? Who?

[IMAXGirl 0]

Thank you so much for all of the input, it is all very helpful and I will certainly be interested in everyone's insight as the project develops. Another angle I thought of taking for the project is the way that the similar "theme" throughout some of Williams' more famous scores, notably Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Superman, function so differently in each of the films. I'm not sure about that, though. My professor's suggestion was to look at the scores for the different directors and then answer the question: "The scores are very different, but so what?" She really wants this to be about the film theory aspect of it and I'm still kind of wrestling with that--what is the significance of the difference. I think it may help to just start watching some films--what would you all suggest as the "top three" or five?

Does anyone know of any good resources where I can find John Williams writing or talking about his scores (without having to purchase all of the soundtracks to read liner notes)? Any books been written on him or his music?

Thanks again for all of the help!

[Orson 1]

Another Girl..wait,what happened to the one just before?

k.m.

The one just before? Who?

I think he's referring to JWfangirl. The 13 year old phenom posting about Williams coming to New York in April.

[Miguel Andrade 1,725]

I have a large collection of print articles on Williams, some of which are transcripted on the english section of my site. Feel free to check those out.

I cana lso get you anyhting else you may want, but please try to get more specific, as i have a somewhat limited time frame to spend with my hobby. But please, ask whatever you need, and I'll do my very best to help.

[Greg1138 3]

Hey - welcome to the boards! Don't forget to tell us about yourself here if you should so wish.....

I too would like to read your paper once finished...

....but in the meantime your questions intrigue me.....

......I will have a think.....but the first thing that aprings to mind is that going Director by Director would be a misleading way of doing it.....as has already been mentioned, Williams composes for the movie and not the director....hence his body of work for Spielberg is about as diverse as you can get.....but tends to be character/situation driven rather than "Mood" driven....that sounds really stupid, but if you look at a cracking adventure story like Jurassic Park, instead of the kind of raucous adventure material that you would almost expect, we end up with a gourgeous and sweeping score which, mostly, tends to evoke child-like wonder rather than edge-of-the-seat peril.

Also with War of the Worlds - we could have been treated to a full in-your-face score a la Independence Day, but instead got an understated, largely innocuous (though no less effective) score with only occasional moments of bombast - and even then there was very little resembling the sweeping, emotional strains of ET or Close Encounters...

....in hindsight, perhaps I have raised more questions than I tried to answer.....

[IMAXGirl 0]

Hmm...this all raises some *very* good questions for me to discuss with my professor after class tomorrow. I'll have to talk with her and see what direction she thinks would be "best" (considering it is her class and she will be grading the project). I will, hopefully, be able to come back tomorrow night with some more specific questions to pose. Thanks everyone for all of the insight, this is really fantastic! I am hoping that as I do my research, I will be able to contribute to the discussion instead of just saying "so what do you think of..." I have JFK and Nixon coming via Netflix for the weekend. Anything in particular I should listen closely for? I have not yet seen either movie? Any similar motifs I can compare to other films?

Thanks again!

Rachel