Old Composer question

[CharlieSherry 0]

There is some people that think that not.

A good composer

[Figo 2]

Well, at least it's an easy question.

That is, if people don't start blowing smoke about the subjectivity of "good."

[Ren 77]

LOL yeah i hope not.

[Morn 8]

I can't answer this, Figo

[scissorhands 16]

Sometimes

[Morn 8]

Bad composers can do good works, good composers can do bad works. Bad composers can never do great works.

[scissorhands 16]

Zimmer has never done a great work by himself.

He has done good works though.

He actually admits having composed VERY BAD scores (to justify his other works, I think LOL )

[Morn 8]

Hmm, I suppose so.

[Figo 2]

Is he even good enough to be considered "bad?"

I guess maybe next to John Carpenter...

[scissorhands 16]

Is he even good enough to be considered "bad?"  

I guess maybe next to John Carpenter...

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

I HATE John Carpenter's music!!!!! (doesn't he improvise in a keyboard while watching the film, and recording at the same time?)

[MAG-SI 10]

His synt samples and computer generated music is nice, but he as a composer is no match to a great number of composers!

[Marian Schedenig 11,694]

Hans Zimmer? Urg.

Marian -

Mulan (Jerry Goldsmith)

[Figo 2]

It's like a reverse of the old Mae West quote:

When he's good, he's very, very bad. But when he's bad, he's worse!

[Morn 8]

He's ok, I quite like Gladiator and Thin Red Line. But when he's bad... I can't put it in words how bad.

[scissorhands 16]

He's ok, I quite like Gladiator and Thin Red Line. But when he's bad... I can't put it in words how bad.

It's a coincidence. Those are also my two fav Zimmer scores.

(TRL better than GLADIATOR)

[Ren 77]

exactly

[ocelot 565]

I made my choice, it is reflected on the poll.

[Figo 2]

Aren't we the private one! :roll:

Figo, who's not telling how he voted either, if that's how you're going to be...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Like we don't all know what you voted...

Stefancos- using this emoticon , so not to offend people.

[Figo 2]

Well, I had to compromise, since there was no option "Worse than death."

[tpigeon 3]

i think that Crimson Tide is a good score, same goes for Backdraft. he also wrote a good theme for The Rock. The Lion King is a very good score, as is the Prince of Egypt.

i haven't decided on how i should vote yet, because i can think of a list of really bad scores as well. i just thought i'd list those since this thread seems to be a bit skewed so far, to say the very least.

[RomanticStrings 62]

I think that he is a good composer. I like his music. I'm not judging based on it being in the movie, only on it by itself. Nor am I saying that his music is a lways good stand alone, but just as movie music, if you can get that. Crimson Tide is one of my favorites, and I like Gladiator, Driving Miss Daisy (I only know the theme), MI:2, The Lion King, and all of the others that I like but can't remember. I bought the TRL soundtrack a few months ago, quite a few, in fact, and I love that Journey to the Line music, but most of the rest I can't understand. It is very quiet, but I will have to listen to it again to make sure I know what I'm talking about. However, the chant is awesome. Did Zimmer write that and the other chants, or are they traditional?

~Conor

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

I think that he is a good composer.  I like his music.  I'm not judging based on it being in the movie, only on it by itself.  

But should film music not be judged first and foremost on how it functions in the film?

Stefancos- puzzled why people insist of judging film music as a stand alone composition first.

[Marian Schedenig 11,694]

But should film music not be judged first and foremost on how it functions in the film?

When watching the film, that's how it should be judged. When listening to it on CD, it should be judged as pure music - because that's what you listen to, after all. There are film scores that are great in the film, but not very enjoyable on CD. And there are film scores that might not be that good in the films they were written for, but that are highly enjoyable as pure music.

If we always had to judge film scores as *film* scores, I couldn't judge many of the CDs I have (having never seen the films). Plus Goldsmith's The Mummy wouldn't be as good as I think it is, because I though the film was overscored - which, in this case, I attribute to the film being so stupid and Goldsmith composing for the CD more than the film (at least it sounded like that to me).

Marian - who has spoken.

Gremlins (Jerry Goldsmith)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

I attribute to the film being so stupid and Goldsmith composing for the CD more than the film (at least it sounded like that to me).

Marian - who has spoken.

Gremlins (Jerry Goldsmith)

I always thinks statements like thsat are very dumb, since you have know way of knowing if Jerry was scoring for the Cd and not the film (which is very unlikely, when you think about it)

Reminds me of King Mark saying that after Jerry's score for Legend was rejected he stopped caring and started to "phone in" his work, just because Mark does not like 90's Goldsmith as much as his 70's, 80's period.

Stefancos- who thinks Silence Of The Lambs is a great score, even if it's very hard to listen through the whole CD. (same goes for Psycho)

[RomanticStrings 62]

I don't generally judge scores based from the movies because they all seem to work in my mind. I base how much I like a score on whether I want to listen to it or not. To me, that's the only palce I can judge the music. It just so happens that my favorite scores seem to be to my favorite movies.

~Conor

[Marian Schedenig 11,694]

I always thinks statements like thsat are very dumb, since you have know way of knowing if Jerry was scoring for the Cd and not the film (which is very unlikely, when you think about it)

I usually don't make that kind of statement...it's just that the music is great on CD, but doesn't address the film as much as a Goldsmith score usually does. Plus I don't find Goldsmith overscores very often (though that may be the fault of the people who hired him for Mummy) - and he said work on the film wasn't very enjoyable... So to me, even if he didn't mean to, he clearly wrote this score for the album more than the film.

Marian - who is having yet another Goldsmith evening.

Gremlins 2 (just stopped, wondering what to play next)

[Justin 2]

I'm sure most of you know what I voted for.

Justin -Who thinks that Figo is a poo poo head.

LOL

[Figo 2]

I hope your opinion of me didn't influence your vote.

[Eplicon 54]

I can't really stomach anything that Zimmer does. It's all noise to my ears. Also, it's hard to take someone seriously as a real composer when he has ten guys backing him up every time he realizes he can't finish a score on his own.

My soundtrack collection is an A through Y list of composers, from David Arnold to Victor Young. There's no "Z" because....well, you know.

[diskobolus 3]

Zimmer's Gladiator was quite good... not exactly listenable in itself, but in conjunction with the film, very well done. The most memorable part of that score, in my opinion, was that played during Maximus's death... I lost my CD so I don't have the track title but you all know the one I mean.

[BigKenagain 0]

But should film music not be judged first and foremost on how it functions in the film?

Well, in my own case I am judging his work on how it functions in the film, because I don't own any of his CD's... I have never heard anything that made me want to waste $20.00 bucks on his crap. In the slightly enjoyable category...

Driving Miss Daisy Nice melody, good reflection of the era, completely over-used

Green Card Again a nice melody, nothing great...

In the bad to worse category

Gladiator Sorry, IMO, this was the biggest fault in a movie full of them...

Crimson Tide More of his "Jerry Goldsmith wannabe" sound...

And the winner for the WORST film score thus far recorded... Mission Impossible 2... Arrghhhh, what was that tech-noise, pseudo-spanish, GAWD-Awful, steaming pile of dung all about. I wouldn't have thought it possible to make Lalo Schifrin's incredibly tuneful and catchy Mission Impossible theme unlistenable, but this un-talented musical mobster and his Media Ventures Mafia figured out a way to do it...

Big Ken: who really needs to learn to express his feelings more :oops:

[Morn 8]

i think that Crimson Tide is a good score, same goes for Backdraft. he also wrote a good theme for The Rock. The Lion King is a very good score, as is the Prince of Egypt.

Stefancos- puzzled why people insist of judging film music as a stand alone composition first.

It's not just how it works in the film, but how well the guy achieves it's function. In other words, how good it is as a stand alone composition.

Zimmer's Gladiator was quite good... not exactly listenable in itself, but in conjunction with the film, very well done.

What are you talking about? It's very good on the CD, but it's awful in the film, music that is out of place and inconsistant.

And Mi2 is quite a good score, do you have problems with rock or something?

[tpigeon 3]

And Mi2 is quite a good score

i think M:I2 is a pretty bad score. there's not much to it... at all. what's so bad about Crimson Tide, Lion King, and Prince of Egypt?

[Morn 8]

Well, Lion King is rather good, Prince of Egypt one good track... Crimson Tide is a bore, a corny theme with lots of dull uninteresting action music.

[tpigeon 3]

i can understand that. i think crimson tide is one of those scores with a couple of really good moments surrounded by a bunch of unmemorable action music. i agree, it's jsut that those few moments are really good in my opinion. and i don't think the theme is so bad. it worked great in the film.

[Lurker 5]

I don't care for his music, but I still voted yes. Don't ask why.

Neil

[tpigeon 3]

why?

[Figo 2]

Neil has a disgusting noble streak, in case you haven't noticed.

Figo, who will never forget Neil's underwhelmed reaction to his masterpiece on the destruction of A.I.

[Guest]

Spielberg is a huge fan of Zimmer, it's likely he will take the job as Steves composer when Johnny boy is no longer around.

Think about that!

[Figo 2]

That'll be the final nail in the coffin for me.

Figo, who still hasn't seen Minority Report, so traumatized was he by A.I.

[UCFKevin 0]

Yeah, but MR has put SPielberg back on top in the minds of many who hated AI. Personally, I loved both, but honestly MR is an incredible movie. It's not very Spielbergian while at the same time being very Spielbergian. Kinda hard to explain. A very ballsy flick. Give it a shot, you Carpathian, you.

[Guest]

MR shows a lot of Fincher influence.

It's great, but not a patch on A.I.

[Ricard 2,672]

That is, if people don't start blowing smoke about the subjectivity of "good."  

Honestly, Figo. I'm really beginning to think that you are a stupid ass***e.

[Lurker 5]

Neil has a disgusting noble streak, in case you haven't noticed.

Figo, who will never forget Neil's underwhelmed reaction to his masterpiece on the destruction of A.I.

I'm leaving! Figo hates me! And none of you, who I thought were my friends, have stood up against this tyrant!

Neil

[Justin 2]

I don't care for his music, but I still voted yes.  Don't ask why.

Becuase he knows that if he voted for "No" he'd be getting a load of hate mail in the following days. :cool:

Justin -

[Guest]

That is, if people don't start blowing smoke about the subjectivity of "good."  

Honestly, Figo. I'm really beginning to think that you are a stupid ass***e.

RICARD IS MY HERO!!!

-Jason

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,975]

But should film music not be judged first and foremost on how it functions in the film?

Maybe so for the majority of composers,but not John Williams.I really believe at least part of his music is for the sake of the music only.Why would he do countless concert arrangements and give performaces of his film music in the concerts all over the place. I think that Williams is trying to make a point that good film scores can have a place in the concert hall.

K.M.

[Figo 2]

Honestly, Figo. I'm really beginning to think that you are a stupid ass***e.

If you were trying for "aesthete," thank you, I'll accept the compliment.