The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[Quintus 6,495]

Thread's still off-limits, then!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Luke Skywalker 2,383]

i prefer the derivative post-tolkien mithologies, like Dragonlance and Forgotten realms. Specially dragonlance.

I'm surprised at you Luke. I always imagined as a Tolkien purist (hence your complaints with the films), but to hear that you put the post-Tolkien stuff (which are enjoyable, but not nearly as good imho) over the classics just surprises me.

As a literary work, Tolkien's is in another league than the rest of the fantasy stuff. Fact.

It's just that i got hooked by Dragonlance in my adolescence. I love dragon stories, and it has the best ones. In other fantasy works dragons are just evil intelligent and magical creatures that greedyly guard their treasures in a cave. In dragonlance (while most do what i just wrote) every dragon species has its own caracteristics and they work with the other humans and elves.

I also love mages and dragonlance has some of the best too.

Last year i re-read the whole Weis & Hickman dragonlance series, and i could see they are more young people oriented.

As a kid I always found LOTR overrated (since everyone had it in high regard) and uninteresting (only having seen the old cartoon film and drawings etc), but after PJ's TTT i gave it a try and as an adult it is a ver interesting read. It is a must read, in english of course.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[gkgyver 1,647]

Thank god for that.

Whenever I thought of the movie, that 120 minutes rumour gave me a bad chill.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Still a bit short!

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[gkgyver 1,647]

160 minutes is a decent running time considering the cutoff point of the film.

And there is an extended version coming.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

It's probably Glamdring. He acquires it in The Hobbit

[gkgyver 1,647]

I wonder what Gandalf is holding... Is that a Morgul blade?

It's a leg bone from one of the wraith tombs, silly.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Sigh!

[gkgyver 1,647]

So, is that a... Bone Of Doom?

That referring to the photo or did you just look down on your body?

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

He he he!

[gkgyver 1,647]

I'm glad I don't see what you are doing *there*.

[hornist 1,261]

Finally some action to this thread...!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Ren seems to be posting tonight, so shit might get steamy...

[gkgyver 1,647]

Finally some action to this thread...!

What, the page of deep Tolkien mythology discussion did not stimulate you?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

I wanted to cut myself!

[Marian Schedenig 11,694]

I think the dwarves really were an unexpected incident, as in Eru didn't know it would come to be from the beginning. It was something that simply happened out of his control despite all his meticulous planning for the unfolding of the world. Like Chaac said, things happening out of control is a common theme in Tolkien's work.

Well yes, I think the point is that it's unexpected and seemingly "unplanned" for the Valar but not really for Illuvatar himself... but that's the mystery god aspect of the whole thing.

Still, the odd thing about the Dwarf issue is that it's repeatedly emphasised that only the Men were given the GIft of Illuvatar... and yet the Dwarves die a natural death, too.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Don't interrupt the penis talk, Austrian!

[Brónach 1,330]

I think the dwarves really were an unexpected incident, as in Eru didn't know it would come to be from the beginning. It was something that simply happened out of his control despite all his meticulous planning for the unfolding of the world. Like Chaac said, things happening out of control is a common theme in Tolkien's work.

Well yes, I think the point is that it's unexpected and seemingly "unplanned" for the Valar but not really for Illuvatar himself... but that's the mystery god aspect of the whole thing.

Still, the odd thing about the Dwarf issue is that it's repeatedly emphasised that only the Men were given the GIft of Illuvatar... and yet the Dwarves die a natural death, too.

I think they also have the Gift of Ilúvatar but it was given to them afterwards given that they were awakened after Men.

That or I'm lost again.

[KK 3,313]

i prefer the derivative post-tolkien mithologies, like Dragonlance and Forgotten realms. Specially dragonlance.

I'm surprised at you Luke. I always imagined as a Tolkien purist (hence your complaints with the films), but to hear that you put the post-Tolkien stuff (which are enjoyable, but not nearly as good imho) over the classics just surprises me.

As a literary work, Tolkien's is in another league than the rest of the fantasy stuff. Fact.

It's just that i got hooked by Dragonlance in my adolescence. I love dragon stories, and it has the best ones. In other fantasy works dragons are just evil intelligent and magical creatures that greedyly guard their treasures in a cave. In dragonlance (while most do what i just wrote) every dragon species has its own caracteristics and they work with the other humans and elves.

I also love mages and dragonlance has some of the best too.

Last year i re-read the whole Weis & Hickman dragonlance series, and i could see they are more young people oriented.

As a kid I always found LOTR overrated (since everyone had it in high regard) and uninteresting (only having seen the old cartoon film and drawings etc), but after PJ's TTT i gave it a try and as an adult it is a ver interesting read. It is a must read, in english of course.

I see what you mean. As a kid, I heard much of LotR, but the books just looked way too big for me to conquer. Then I decided to tackle them in the 5th grade and I instantly fell in love.

Funny enough, a year or two later, I became a big fan of the Dragonlance series too. Although I never got to catch up to them all (there were a lot!), but I loved them. Now, not as much, but I appreciate them.

I think the dwarves really were an unexpected incident, as in Eru didn't know it would come to be from the beginning. It was something that simply happened out of his control despite all his meticulous planning for the unfolding of the world. Like Chaac said, things happening out of control is a common theme in Tolkien's work.

Well yes, I think the point is that it's unexpected and seemingly "unplanned" for the Valar but not really for Illuvatar himself... but that's the mystery god aspect of the whole thing.

Still, the odd thing about the Dwarf issue is that it's repeatedly emphasised that only the Men were given the GIft of Illuvatar... and yet the Dwarves die a natural death, too.

I think they also have the Gift of Ilúvatar but it was given to them afterwards given that they were awakened after Men.

That or I'm lost again.

I don't know. I always though the Gift was especially bestowed upon Men. But it could be that he granted it to the dwarves too but that doesn't explain why he would. Why not just group the dwarves with the elves? Why not just make them immortal too? What's the point of giving the same gift he bestowed upon beloved creation to one that he never intended to create?

I realize we're scaring a lot of casual readers away...oops

I wonder what Gandalf is holding... Is that a Morgul blade?

That looks more like the troll scene, so I'm guessing that might be Glamdring.

Having said that, I'm very pleased with the 2h 44 min length. It's a good size for an epic (very close to the length of FotR).

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Too early to say I told you so? (regarding the film's length)

[Ren 77]

Thank goodness. I've missed this thread. I just sat here and read all that elvish stuff and I feel the geek rising in me again. Hallefreakinlujah

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

About bloody time!

[KK 3,313]

Thank goodness. I've missed this thread. I just sat here and read all that elvish stuff and I feel the geek rising in me again. Hallefreakinlujah

So we didn't scare you away? Awesome!

[Luke Skywalker 2,383]

i prefer the derivative post-tolkien mithologies, like Dragonlance and Forgotten realms. Specially dragonlance.

I'm surprised at you Luke. I always imagined as a Tolkien purist (hence your complaints with the films), but to hear that you put the post-Tolkien stuff (which are enjoyable, but not nearly as good imho) over the classics just surprises me.

As a literary work, Tolkien's is in another league than the rest of the fantasy stuff. Fact.

It's just that i got hooked by Dragonlance in my adolescence. I love dragon stories, and it has the best ones. In other fantasy works dragons are just evil intelligent and magical creatures that greedyly guard their treasures in a cave. In dragonlance (while most do what i just wrote) every dragon species has its own caracteristics and they work with the other humans and elves.

I also love mages and dragonlance has some of the best too.

Last year i re-read the whole Weis & Hickman dragonlance series, and i could see they are more young people oriented.

As a kid I always found LOTR overrated (since everyone had it in high regard) and uninteresting (only having seen the old cartoon film and drawings etc), but after PJ's TTT i gave it a try and as an adult it is a ver interesting read. It is a must read, in english of course.

I see what you mean. As a kid, I heard much of LotR, but the books just looked way too big for me to conquer. Then I decided to tackle them in the 5th grade and I instantly fell in love.

Funny enough, a year or two later, I became a big fan of the Dragonlance series too. Although I never got to catch up to them all (there were a lot!), but I loved them. Now, not as much, but I appreciate them.

Of dragonlance, the most important books are the 14 novels written by Weis and hickman. The rest is 'expanded universe' that sometimes contradicts canon. But there are some interesting reads.

[alicebrallice 134]

geoffrey rush, is that you?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Now that you mention it?

[alicebrallice 134]

first thing I noticed!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

You always were pretty....... perceptive.

[John Takis 394]

Still, the odd thing about the Dwarf issue is that it's repeatedly emphasised that only the Men were given the GIft of Illuvatar... and yet the Dwarves die a natural death, too.

The "Gift of Ilúvatar" is not merely natural death, but a liberation of sorts from the "Circles of the World." Men are spiritually restless and seek beyond the world, and their spirits truly depart from the world after death. The spirits (or fëa) of Elves who are killed, by contrast, never leave the world, but are gathered in the Halls of Mandos, in Valinor -- which, despite being largely sundered from Middle-earth at the time of LOTR, is still considered to be part of Arda proper. Thus, it is possible for Elves to be reincarnated, after a fashion.

The fate of Dwarves is left somewhat obscure. They die a "natural" death like Men; yet, in keeping with their origin, they are far more creatures of Arda, and feel spiritually at home within it. Their conception of an afterlife is one of peaceful rest, deep within the bosom of the earth ("I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers until the world is renewed..."). Like the Elves, they have an idea of reincarnation, although it seems limited to the original Dwarf Fathers. Given all this, one might posit that the "Gift of Ilúvatar" -- with its connotation of eternal restlessness within Arda and an ultimate destiny external to it -- would be incomprehensible, if not horrifying, to the Dwarvish mind.

Do hobbits have the "Gift of Ilúvatar?" I suspect the answer is yes. It is true that, like Dwarves, they are comfortable living in communion with the earth; moreso than most of the human cultures we meet in LOTR. But Tolkien makes it fairly apparent that they are an offshoot of humanity -- perhaps closer, in their lifestyle and outlook, to the human community as it existed before the corrupting influence of Morgoth (nor are they totally immune to such depredations, as Saruman/Sharkey makes abundantly clear). In their affinity for the natural world, they can be said to have "gone Dwarvish" to an extent. But the innate restlessness that is humanity's legacy has not been bred out of them entirely -- as personified, of course, by Bilbo Baggins!

[Quintus 6,495]

Two and three quarter hours for half of The Hobbit?!

Bloody nora! Pfft

[Luke Skywalker 2,383]

Two and three quarter hours for half of The Hobbit?!

Bloody nora! Pfft

one third of the hobbit.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Two and a half Hobbits?

[KK 3,313]

Should rename one of the films to 12 Angry Dwarves.

[Ren 77]

Kk. Lol

[crumbs 16,007]

Curious to imagine how long the film would have been if it ended as originally planned? Perhaps 20-30 minutes saved for Film II? I'm guessing once the decision to have a trilogy was made, a couple of scenes already saved for the EE were brought back into the theatrical cut, to pad out the length a bit. Thus, I'm not expecting a very tight theatrical cut.

[Incanus 5,890]

Should rename one of the films to 12 Angry Dwarves.

And then there were none?

[Jay 46,243]

I'm guessing once the decision to have a trilogy was made, a couple of scenes already saved for the EE were brought back into the theatrical cut, to pad out the length a bit. Thus, I'm not expecting a very tight theatrical cut.

Unfortunately I think you're probably right

[Incanus 5,890]

Inspired by K.K. 12 Angry Dwarves I present:

Thirteen Little Dwarves or And Then There Were None

Thirteen little heroic Dwarves did all too greedily delve;

One Balrog ate for early lunch and then there were only twelve.

Twelve little heroic Dwarves they raised their eyes in alarm to heaven,

An eagle swooped down and plucked one up and then there were only eleven.

Eleven little heroic Dwarves got lost in the darkest Mirkwood glen,

Spiders caught one in web so thick and then there were only ten.

Ten little heroic Dwarves in a panic climbed into a very tall pine,

The Orcs arrived and burned the pine down and then there were only nine.

Nine little heroic Dwarves at night sat by the old Moria gate,

One was snatched by the Watcher's tentacled hand and then there were only eight.

Eight little heroic Dwarves were hit in the mountains by a flashing levin,

One was incinerated and Stone Giants laughed and then there were only seven.

Seven little heroic Dwarves were fooled by the Wood Elven tricks,

One got lost in the Mirkwood's eternal gloom and then there were only six.

Six little heroic Dwarves at the house of Beorn encountered a giant bee hive,

One was stung by a bee of prodigious proportions and then there were only five.

Five little heroic Dwarves they waited for ages by the small hidden door,

One slipped off the ledge and down the cliff side and then there were only four.

Four little heroic Dwarves one night did rest at the Pony in Bree,

One was skewered in error by an angry Ringwraith and then there were only three.

Three little heroic Dwarves to Trollshaws travelled without a clue,

One was caught and eaten by three wicked Trolls and then there were only two.

Two little heroic Dwarves found treasure and thought their troubles were done,

But Smaug the Golden gobbled one up and there was only one.

One little heroicThorin Oakenshield fought ever so bravely and won,

But also in this battle he finally died and then there were none.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Quintus 6,495]

It's a bit overwritten in some parts,

Get the hell outta here!

[Incanus 5,890]

Why thank you BloodBoal. Constructive criticism is always welcome. I try to do better with my next epic poem Ninety Nine Barrels of Dwarf on the Wall.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Brilliant!

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

I just want to know, why they went to bree, from the hidden door to Lonly mountain, and then back?