Relationship status

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

he he he.

Comforting to know.

Of course women can be as bad as men, but it's nowhere near as socially accepted yet.

[Datameister 2,586]

Women are just as bad as men when it comes to sex

Some of 'em are as bad as some men, but men are somewhat worse on average. And by "worse", I don't mean that they necessarily have a stronger desire for sex - they just tend to approach it a little more indiscriminately.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Did racial tensions from old farts in either family play into the break up?

[Trent B 354]

Steef, my heart melts for you! (I KID I KID!!!!)

Honestly man reading this what's happened with you in regards to a relationship, makes me wonder how you've just managed to chug along through it. I mean I know they say life is a bitch but hell you got hit with it big time....no offense. You are a very strong willed person man, I give you props for that.

Better to be single then settle for someone....

Not necessarily true. You can settle for someone and both can mutually agree not to have kids, like Dawn and I have.

I can't wait to read Ren's or Alice's reply regarding the last several posts.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Someone once told me that it doesn't matter if she's utterly gorgeous, as long as you find someone that you can be happy with and not have too many problems, you'll be set. Although he did add that she shouldn't look too bad

Words to live by.

[KK 3,313]

They basically made an experiment with a group of women and men in an university campus. They had to approach unkown individuals in the campus that they would personally have sex with by their own standards, and tell them politely that they had noticed them, found them attractive and would like to have sex/go on a date/go to my apartment/ etc.

If I remember correctly, most men answered positively and the ones who didn't came up with justifications and excuses. Not a single of the women approached said yes and some aggresive reactions were recorded among them.

I don't remember what explanation the authors of the paper had for this. My personal opinion is that this is a cultural construct that might shift in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ3F7uAFSqs

3:08 - 6:30ish

It's hilarious to watch! The entire documentary presented some interesting theories itself.

And reading through page 16, for a bit, I thought Steven had gone crazy and was talking to himself...

[Hlao-roo 390]

You know what they say: a woman who has sex with many men is considered a slut, a man who has sex with many women is considered a god.

What about a god who has sex with many sluts?

[Datameister 2,586]

Zeus FTW!

[Quintus 6,496]

They basically made an experiment with a group of women and men in an university campus. They had to approach unkown individuals in the campus that they would personally have sex with by their own standards, and tell them politely that they had noticed them, found them attractive and would like to have sex/go on a date/go to my apartment/ etc.

If I remember correctly, most men answered positively and the ones who didn't came up with justifications and excuses. Not a single of the women approached said yes and some aggresive reactions were recorded among them.

I don't remember what explanation the authors of the paper had for this. My personal opinion is that this is a cultural construct that might shift in the future.

I know of that study, too. As I recall, some of the men who said no actually apologized.

While cultural norms certainly play a significant role in all this, it seems to be pretty widely accepted that there is a biological/evolutionary basis for certain differences between how men and women tend to approach sex and relationships. It has to do with what is most reproductively...productive. A man produces so many countless sperm in his lifetime that he can maximize his number of offpsring (and thus his share of the gene pool) by screwing any chick who'll have him. But a woman produces a MUCH smaller number of eggs in her lifetime, and if one is fertilized, she's left with quite a burden. For the woman, carrying a child to term consumes time, energy, and resources - and under normal conditions, the result is nine months during which she cannot become pregnant with another child.

In short, men are biologically capable of having many, many more children than women are. Scientists posit that this has given an evolutionary advantage to men who have sex often and with many partners, while it has given an evolutionary advantage to women who are careful about selecting a much smaller number of partners who are likely to produce healthy, attractive, successful offspring.

Of course, these are all generalizations, and things get much more complicated when you bring in issues of sexual orientation and gender identity and so forth, but this framework for viewing sexuality seems fairly robust. I forget the exact examples, but it's bolstered by cases in the animal kingdom where the male has a lot more at stake with each partner, so he's more selective, while the female just gets busy with anyone she can. Fascinating stuff.

As for me, I continue to be atypical in my utter inability to find a woman who meets my particular standards, has some level of cuteness, is single, and likes me. I'm beginning to suspect that I'll be single for the rest of my life, which is a truly horrible thing to imagine.

There's no way such a chap will be forever alone. Just continue to bide your time and you'll eventually hit the jackpot.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Steef, my heart melts for you! (I KID I KID!!!!)

Honestly man reading this what's happened with you in regards to a relationship, makes me wonder how you've just managed to chug along through it. I mean I know they say life is a bitch but hell you got hit with it big time....no offense. You are a very strong willed person man, I give you props for that.

LOL and I didn't actually give out a single detail about what happened.

To be honest, what happened to me happens to many people in life. You are happy with someone, and for some reason something changes. You can try to fix things, which I certainly did. You can make things worse by not being truthful to yourself or her, which I also did.

It's all very painful, but it's something most people deal with at some points in their lives, often more then once.

Not necessarily true. You can settle for someone and both can mutually agree not to have kids, like Dawn and I have.

I think you misunderstood. I don't mean settle as in settling down and starting a family. I was talking about settling for less. Some people end up with a partner who they feel less for then they perhaps should. Because they feel they can't get any better.... And it's better then nothing.

From what little I know of it, you and Dawn seem completely in love with each other. And realize you are both very special, and possibly made for each other. (from the pics I've seen via your FB, she is both lovely and beautiful)

Count your blessings Trent. It's fantastic if something like that works, especially long distance.

I can't wait to read Ren's or Alice's reply regarding the last several posts.

They are women, so they are probably enjoying relationships rather then wasting time talking about them.

The only thoughts and opinions of the women folk of JWFAN is of intense interest to me though.

[Datameister 2,586]

There's no way such a chap will be forever alone. Just continue to bide your time and you'll eventually hit the jackpot.

Thanks, man. I wish I felt confident in that, but who knows...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

I agree with Trent.

[Henry B 51]

I'm extremely skeptical of these studies that claim biological precedent for men wanting to sleep around and women wanting to settle down and have kids. Such studies can't account for the infinitely varied behavior of humans and the social constructs they live by. If there were a way to measure pure, unfiltered sexual desire, maybe we could prove how men and women differ. But to me, going around and saying "I would like to have sex with you" is a terrible premise for a study. We live in a male-centric society - still - where rape is rampant and women are stared at and objectified. In most parts of the world, it isn't safe for women to walk around at night alone, even in prosperous, developed nations. It's rather staggering how much sexual crime happens, and it certainly has an effect on women's psyches. Male offers of casual sex must send off considerably more warning sirens. I don't mean that a woman who refuses casual sex actually believes she is under assault. It's just that the social cues make her lean toward that conclusion. What a man thinks of as "fun" comes off more as "creepy." And on the flip side, men who want casual sex are encouraged by social entitlements to pursue it for the wrong reasons; power and domination may more readily be indulged.

I wish that we could get away from this idea of Same and Other when it comes to relationships. Forget about gender. It's a social construct. All people, whether male, female, intersexual or transexual, are capable of acting anywhere on the infinite spectrum of human behavior. If you want a relationship, you should find the person who makes you happy, not the person who seems to conform best to your idea of what a woman should be. I've started to think that I should stop calling myself heterosexual. Not because I particularly want to have sex with men, but because sexual orientations involve a moral judgment. By claiming with absolute conviction that you would only date one gender or another, you make assumptions about personality. There are sexual instincts, yes, but these involve a considerably grayer area than most would willingly admit to. And much of our criteria for attraction seems to toe the line. Is a charming smile or a sense of humor really something innately male or female? I'm dating a woman right now, and I'm very happy with her, but I love her for who she is, not for how she fits a certain rubric. Oh, it's all easier said than done. Despite my efforts to be conscious, I've stereotyped and objectified all the same. It is a very tough habit to kick when your whole lifetime is spent learning it.

By the way, studies can really "prove" anything. Women are said to be loud during sex because they wish to invite more men to join their orgy. So really, which is it?

[Ren 77]

Wow. What a thread. I for one enjoy sex (not one night stands) - relationship sex. If the relationship is short lived ok. I don't mind if a man has had many partners if he's clean. I am attracted to men who exude wisdom, confidence and dominance in bed. I know what I want in bed, can be aggressive to get it, submissive to my man, I can't stand someone who can't hold their load for more than a few seconds.

I'd much rather do all this stuff with someone who I can talk to about music and such. That means more to me. The connection. If the connection is there the man will be awarded :-)

As for relationships. I want nothing more than a man who shares my geeky passions, appreciates music, treats me like a woman first and a mother second, etc etc etc

[Jay 46,244]

Sharing your love of geeky things shouldn't be necessary to have a wonderful relationship with

[Ren 77]

No not necessary, but preferred. I'm not looking for run of the mill. People who appreciate the quirks that I have and have quirks themselves is attractive

You have to have an element of attraction and compatibility. I went on a date with a fireman and it would not have worked out. Music makes up who I am and he just had a big ole blank stare.

[Jay 46,244]

Right, they have to appreciate that you appreciate them and not make fun of you for them and in fact embrace them and perhaps go to events surrounding them, but they it doesn't have to be their hobby as well, is what I was getting at.... and in fact if they have their own geeky hobbies that you aren't as interested in that is cool because I think it helps to have your own interests as well as mutual ones.

I don't get the whole woman first, mother second thing. For the next 18 years you're a mother above everything else in life, no?

[Brónach 1,330]

I'm extremely skeptical of these studies that claim biological precedent for men wanting to sleep around and women wanting to settle down and have kids. Such studies can't account for the infinitely varied behavior of humans and the social constructs they live by. If there were a way to measure pure, unfiltered sexual desire, maybe we could prove how men and women differ. But to me, going around and saying "I would like to have sex with you" is a terrible premise for a study. We live in a male-centric society - still - where rape is rampant and women are stared at and objectified. In most parts of the world, it isn't safe for women to walk around at night alone, even in prosperous, developed nations. It's rather staggering how much sexual crime happens, and it certainly has an effect on women's psyches. Male offers of casual sex must send off considerably more warning sirens. I don't mean that a woman who refuses casual sex actually believes she is under assault. It's just that the social cues make her lean toward that conclusion. What a man thinks of as "fun" comes off more as "creepy." And on the flip side, men who want casual sex are encouraged by social entitlements to pursue it for the wrong reasons; power and domination may more readily be indulged.

Like I said, it's a social construct. It doesn't necesarily have to be like this, it wasn't for sure always like this everywhere, and it for sure won't stay the same forever.

The biological implication I see is a big brain that operates through culture.

I've started to think that I should stop calling myself heterosexual. Not because I particularly want to have sex with men, but because sexual orientations involve a moral judgment. By claiming with absolute conviction that you would only date one gender or another, you make assumptions about personality.

???

What if you simply are attracted to one sex and not to the other?

Many animals have various sexual orientations. According to a biologist friend, around 1500 species, distributed through Bilateria, with some exceptions. I surely don't think a penguin is making a moral judgement when sticking to one sex or the other...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Jason, judging by Marcy's ample size I figured you guys shared motor boating as a hobby...

[Jay 46,244]

You're an asshole

[Quintus 6,496]

Was it ban worthy?

[Ren 77]

My son and I are fine together. He already has a father. I'm not looking for a father, I'm looking for a man who treats me they way I deserve to be treated, first. Then secondly a good role model for my son. They go hand in hand but my needs come first with a relationship.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Many animals have various sexual orientations. According to a biologist friend, around 1500 species, distributed through Bilateria, with some exceptions. I surely don't think a penguin is making a moral judgement when sticking to one sex or the other...

And yet we see packs of wolves discipline each other for choices that could damage the pack. Granted, I'm not aware of any being about sexual preferences, but animals do have moral constructs.

You're an asshole

Don't feed the troll.

Sharing your love of geeky things shouldn't be necessary to have a wonderful relationship with

Maybe, but I've had it both ways, and I prefer sharing love of geeky things.

As far as the "evolutionary psychology" conversation flowing through here, please remember that evolutionary psychology is one of the most controversial subjects in the scientific community right now. In fact many scientists consider it a pseudoscience. It's a field where a pet hypothesis is proposed, and then evidence is gathered for it. Which is not how to do science.

If you're reading something that says "men/women were [never] designed/evolved to ____________" it probably means you are reading an article about evolutionary psychology. And you should be wary of conclusions proposed.

For example: Humans were never designed/evolved to use laptops or fly in airplanes. Yet we do. We were evolved to move around the world and hunt. Yet we don't.

But all of a sudden if some evolutionary psychologist says "women were not evolved to crave sex" or "women were evolved to settle down and have babies" everyone's like "well that sounds reasonable."

[Brónach 1,330]

Many animals have various sexual orientations. According to a biologist friend, around 1500 species, distributed through Bilateria, with some exceptions. I surely don't think a penguin is making a moral judgement when sticking to one sex or the other...

And yet we see packs of wolves discipline each other for choices that could damage the pack. Granted, I'm not aware of any being about sexual preferences, but animals do have moral constructs.

I agree that animals can have moral constructs, but it doesn't have anything to do with primal, sexual preferences!

[Wojo 2,458]

I would also prefer someone who shares my geeky interests. I'm not saying that I would want to have a traditional Klingon wedding or get matching Han and Leia tattoos or name our children for Adama and Roslin, no. That would be pushing it, and I cring when I think about uber-nerds like that. But somebody to talk to who likes what I likes and I would like to like what she likes...I'd like that.

Let's face it. I'm not tall, I'm not fit, I'm not attractive, and I'm not in my 20s anymore. I'm not going to woo a woman who's built for the runway or centerfold. And if all the lady wants to do is go shopping for clothes and dancing and get her nails done and watch Housewives and root on her favorite local team without really understanding the concept of the game and league the rest of the year and text up a storm with her girlfriends and pats me on the head in a condescending way or gives me the blank stare when I watch sci-fi or turn on a movie score or want to play an hour or two of a video game while she does something else...I'm not going to be happy with her.

Even if the sex is out of this world. Which it's not going to be because I'm neither that nor a bag of potato chips.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

I know a few very attractive, I would say could be model quality women, who are in search of a sweet man with a nice "cute" belly and dorky glasses.

You can't assume that just because they are hot they won't be into you for being less attractive than them. In fact, most successful relationships I see I get a distinct "Dude you married up!" or "Good lord lady, you certainly married down!" reaction in terms of appearances.

My own included. Though I would say people probably think the married down bit covers things beyond appearances.

[Wojo 2,458]

Oh, don't worry. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't found a cute, geeky, and slightly younger lass who's probably as head over heels for me as I for her, as we take it slow and see where the road may take us. Lying out the teeth.

[Brónach 1,330]

Another one who would prefer sharing some interests here.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Oh, don't worry. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't found a cute, geeky, and slightly younger lass who's probably as head over heels for me as I for her, as we take it slow and see where the road may take us. Lying out the teeth.

[Datameister 2,586]

I understand and share (to a certain degree) your skepticism of evolutionary psychology, Blumenkohl. It's not a field that establishes firm theories. But it is an interesting lens through which to view our world. And in cases like the one we're discussing, the hypothesis is somewhat bolstered by the fact that we see the same sorts of behavior across the animal kingdom - except in cases where the male has a greater investment in new offspring, because as I said, those males tend to be more selective than the females they court.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

You're an asshole

Don't feed the troll.

I've eaten enough....

[Quintus 6,496]

I understand and share (to a certain degree) your skepticism of evolutionary psychology, Blumenkohl. It's not a field that establishes firm theories. But it is an interesting lens through which to view our world. And in cases like the one we're discussing, the hypothesis is somewhat bolstered by the fact that we see the same sorts of behavior across the animal kingdom - except in cases where the male has a greater investment in new offspring, because as I said, those males tend to be more selective than the females they court.

You haven't been bringing this up on first dates have you?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

My son and I are fine together. He already has a father. I'm not looking for a father, I'm looking for a man who treats me they way I deserve to be treated, first. Then secondly a good role model for my son. They go hand in hand but my needs come first with a relationship.

After her divorce my mom chose to never look for a new father. She had boyfriends, but they were never allowed to have any say in how HER kids were to be raised.

[Brónach 1,330]

I understand and share (to a certain degree) your skepticism of evolutionary psychology, Blumenkohl. It's not a field that establishes firm theories. But it is an interesting lens through which to view our world. And in cases like the one we're discussing, the hypothesis is somewhat bolstered by the fact that we see the same sorts of behavior across the animal kingdom - except in cases where the male has a greater investment in new offspring, because as I said, those males tend to be more selective than the females they court.

I think women, with their big brains, are able to look for males without thinking on offspring.

[Wojo 2,458]

I like women with big brains. Two of 'em.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

I like your thinking!

[Quintus 6,496]

I'd rather just have the tits.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

I need more then just those

[Trent B 354]

I think you misunderstood. I don't mean settle as in settling down and starting a family. I was talking about settling for less. Some people end up with a partner who they feel less for then they perhaps should. Because they feel they can't get any better.... And it's better then nothing.

Oh gotcha now.

From what little I know of it, you and Dawn seem completely in love with each other. And realize you are both very special, and possibly made for each other. (from the pics I've seen via your FB, she is both lovely and beautiful)

Count your blessings Trent. It's fantastic if something like that works, especially long distance.

Thanks Steef. I will admit the long distance thing has been REALLY hard. Everything almost fell into place for us and to move her over here to Utah while we lived in Salt Lake City. Then bam the move and everything went to shit. It tore me down and still has. Also living in a town in practically the middle of EVERYTHING doesn't help either.

Living in Salt Lake City I had the convenience of being able to pick her up from the air port right there in the city. Now living here, I have go to down to Vegas to do it. All though with my friend Joe now back in Vegas getting down there will be a lot easier. Still just living here is a major inconvenience and it sucks ass!

I'm hoping I can get something finally worked out and get her here.

BTW regarding to wanting to share geekyness with someone... Dawn and I both like Star Wars so that's a major plus for us. All though she does not really like Star Trek that much, never has. She mumbles every time I bring it up or the fact I like it, listen to the music and watch the shows. She doesn't like it she just lives with it because I like it.

All though I will admit I always get to make fun at her for it though and chuckle when she mumbles again. Even though she knows I'm joking with her.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

It must be hard to have part of your life and happiness take place somewhere far away. Just out of reach.

I'm sure you guys will work something out.

[Trent B 354]

It definitely has been difficult for that. November 13th we start our 5th year and unfortunately won't be able to be together for it. However, I'll be bringing her here for Christmas and New Years. She'll have to fly back after that but hopefully shortly after that point I can finally bring her back for good.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Trent, I mean it when I say I really admire you.

Long distance relationships are incredibly hard. They require effort, dedication, patience and trust from both sides.

5 years is amazing man!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Long distance... it's really not as bad as you think it is while going through it, and in the end it actually helps your relationship because you can grow and mature independently of one another.

[Ollie 1,375]

I hope that everyone here sooner or later finds that special someone to be with.

Ren, I've been down the same path as you and I wish you nothing but the best. I hope you find a man who treats you the way you deserve to be.

I know what Steef is going thru and I know things will get better for him. It's a shame we all live so far apart. I know we all have friends outside of the message board but I wouldn't mind going out for beer with Steef to cheer him up and I'm sure Mrs Olivarez wouldn't mind meeting Ren.

I'm glad Jason has found his soul mate after everything that happened. And Trent has something special as well.

Sometimes that person is right under your nose. They've been there all along or they are the last person you would even think about.

I almost made a huge mistake when I first met my wife. Both of our mothers worked at the same hospital, as well as the Mrs.

Our moms decided to set us up with each other. Our first two dates were in a family atmosphere and really didn't allow us to have that necessary alone time to talk to each other. I wasn't attracted to her at first, a stupid problem that I hadn't learned a lesson on. I always went for that strong physical attraction.

So I was tired of hanging out with the guys every Friday night and was at the point where I was either going to not call her for a true first date or give her a call to have some female companionship, nothing sexual, but just conversation with someone other than the same gang.

So I decided at the last minute to give her a call and take her to the movies. To think how close I came to not even calling her and moving on, I can of imagine what my life would be like almost 12 years later.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

It's those little, seemingly insignificant decisions that can change the course of your life.

Beautiful post Mark.

And Jason I apologise for my earlier comment.

[Ren 77]

Thanks Mark. I would love to meet up with a fair few of the members here. It's surprising to me that there aren't more members on here that are more local to me. <shrug>

I will find that someone, I will continue to explore my options until I do. After coming out of a failed marriage I think I've earned the right to be adamant about what makes me happy and what I look for. I settled for 12 years. Twelve long years with a man that was neither good in bed nor my soul mate. He didn't respect me or encourage me, we got complacent. I learned my lessons from it, we both changed. He was unwilling to work on it. It's his loss. As you guys would say "I married down". Now I'm looking up. I'm not stick thin but I'm confident, know how to hold myself, am strong, am full of passion and love and light. I'm a beautiful woman who enjoys the company of a kind and loving quirky man. He'll find me. I'll find him. He's out there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Indeed he is.

YOU GO GIRL!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Now I'm looking up. I'm not stick thin but I'm confident, know how to hold myself, am strong, am full of passion and love and light.

If you don't already start, jogging/running or even walking every day for 30-40 minutes. If you got money, join a gym, but it's not necessary.

Not with the goal to lose weight or become an Olympian. Just to feel great. It really makes a mental difference.

And it gives you bedroom stamina. #1 reason right there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

I lost 8 kilos in the last month, mostly due to stress, no appetite and anxiety.

But I definitely look better....