Obnoxious, cocky orchestration - will it ever make a comeback in film?

[Quintus 6,495]

Remember when war movies and 'boys own adventures' used to sound like this? Where Eagles Dare, The Dirty Dozen etc etc; nowadays it sounds like some old jingoistic music from a bygone era, but I still think it sounds wonderfully punchy and gratifying on a purely simplistic, self-indulgent level. Comfort bombast. Even from the opening notes the musical shape and arc of this sort of composition is reassuringly predictable - and no less enjoyable to hear play out to its inevitable conclusion, the 'going through the motions' of it strangely playing very much a part in such basic musical pleasures.

Another thing I wonder is whether perhaps this particular sound is largely the domain and pleasure of male tastes; women I imagine (perhaps incorrectly) being rather turned off by the percussive machismo and broadly militaristic overtones. Or maybe it actually functions on a 'pop' level - having a wider appeal than one might give it credit for. Are snares and brass universal?

Do you miss this sound in movies? Or is it best left buried with the aged sensibilities it used to underscore?

[Jilal 681]

Oh I love this kind of war scoring. Too bad it's gone, like the films themselves.

[Anthony 895]

Ah the Battlefield theme...love it.

[Quintus 6,495]

Played by the London Philharmonic, no less

[Nick1Ø66 8,330]

Yeah, that kind of score is really jarring. It definitely holds a nostalgia factor for me when watching those old war movies, but that kind of music, to my ears, doesn't really hold up that well on its own absent the movie. And I'm not sure it is that well suited for modern sensibilities.

[Sharkissimo 1,978]

You'll probably only find this type of military brass band scoring nowadays in an ironic context. Pastiche.

[Richard P 5,302]

I really like that piece. Sort of thing we still hear in documentaries, BBC-produced ones particularly.

[Muad'Dib 2,059]

I remember we used to play the Battlefield theme with a friend on the piano. I would play the melody and he the rythmic base. Quite fun days...

Someday it'll return, I imagine. In a good context, I hope.

By the way, the above piece from Big Al's movie is a wonderful homage to Stravinsky's C Symphony, particularly the first movement.

Based on that Stravinsky bit right there, I think that's exactly the problem we're having in modern mass-produced film music: Newer composers don't seem to be playing around with anything that's modern or more audatious. They're sticking with pre-XVIII composers. Where's the Alex North of today, mixing both traditional techniques with more avant-garde ideas? There doesn't seem to be one, but not so much because the composers can't do it, but to my mind it seems that people have become really square in what should be film music or not.

Imagine what Powell could do, if he was given the chance of writing his own Rite of Spring...

[Brónach 1,330]

I really like that piece. Sort of thing we still hear in documentaries, BBC-produced ones particularly.

That show had a great score. That cue was always a favourite of mine. The theme at 2:54 kicks ass, and so does the climax and the statement of Al's theme afterwards.

[Xander Harris 9,674]

Isn't this similar to, say, the finale of First Blood Part II? Goldsmith did this sort of thing well.

[ymenard 68]

Giacchino loves that style of orchestration. It's everywhere in his gaming WW2 scores, and even in stuff like Star Trek.

[Richard P 5,302]

Yeah good point - Medal of Honor is full of this, and loads of fun as a result.

[movied 24]

I'd say Silvestri is guilty of this style in multiple scores.

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Snares + Brass + Good Melody/Theme = Awesomeness.

[Henry B 51]

I heard this style made a triumphant return in Red Tails.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Akira Ikufube's Godzilla work is still the best at this. Mainly because it was written on such a short schedule. Days I think?

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Would Kelly's Heroes fit this description?

[JoeinAR 1,957]

1941 would/does.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Akira Ikufube's Godzilla work is still the best at this. Mainly because it was written on such a short schedule. Days I think?

Some of the most iconic motifs come from his Godzilla scores. Invasion of the Astro-Monster or Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla, or Godzilla vs. Mothra ... or the end title march from Godzilla vs. Destroyah.

[Sandor 918]

It is my opinion that Hollywood traded the 'masculine' way of scoring for a more 'feminine' approach. The foundation for this may have been laid by James Horner with the broad and lyrical themes in Braveheart: a violent, 'manly' film with a touching, sensitive score. A think part of why that film worked so well, including at the Oscars, is because the score gave it a sense of depth.

The soundtrack that completely took out the masculine tradition of scoring 'manly' films was Zimmer's Gladiator. In a sense a brilliant score that changed film music for a generation. Having Lisa Gerrard contribute to such an essential part of that score only emphasises the change from masculine-driven scores (Goldsmith) to a more feminine-like way of scoring. Lisa's voice became a symbol of this change.

Or maybe I'm just talking crap here.

[KK 3,313]

You made an interesting point with Horner until you brought up Gladiator. If anything, Zimmer's Gladiator re-popularized a "masculin" style in modern action music. It may not have been old-school, but early MV music is very much "masculin" music. Using Lisa Gerrard's voice was simply a complementary musical colour, it in no way made the action "effeminate".

[Sandor 918]

You made an interesting point with Horner until you brought up Gladiator. If anything, Zimmer's Gladiator re-popularized a "masculin" style in modern action music. It may not have been old-school, but early MV music is very much "masculin" music. Using Lisa Gerrard's voice was simply a complementary musical colour, it in no way made the action "effeminate".

There are indeed 'old school' MV elements in Gladiator. However; it is the wailing and sensitive parts that have been copied to death and have found their way in virtually all scores ever since. When even a Star Wars score 'borrows' from the Gladiator blueprint, you know you're in trouble...

[Sharkissimo 1,978]

Alex North was great at this type of orchestration.

[KK 3,313]

You made an interesting point with Horner until you brought up Gladiator. If anything, Zimmer's Gladiator re-popularized a "masculin" style in modern action music. It may not have been old-school, but early MV music is very much "masculin" music. Using Lisa Gerrard's voice was simply a complementary musical colour, it in no way made the action "effeminate".

There are indeed 'old school' MV elements in Gladiator. However; it is the wailing and sensitive parts that have been copied to death and have found their way in virtually all scores ever since. When even a Star Wars score 'borrows' from the Gladiator blueprint, you know you're in trouble...

You made an interesting point with Horner until you brought up Gladiator. If anything, Zimmer's Gladiator re-popularized a "masculin" style in modern action music. It may not have been old-school, but early MV music is very much "masculin" music. Using Lisa Gerrard's voice was simply a complementary musical colour, it in no way made the action "effeminate".

There are indeed 'old school' MV elements in Gladiator. However; it is the wailing and sensitive parts that have been copied to death and have found their way in virtually all scores ever since. When even a Star Wars score 'borrows' from the Gladiator blueprint, you know you're in trouble...

Oh, completely agreed there. I just wouldn't describe that wailing as "feminine" music

[ymenard 68]

Goldsmith' The Blue Max is also exactly that. And it's awesome, full of tension and heroic releases.