What Are You Eating Tonight?

[Brónach 1,330]

It's the use of the word "organic" that upsets me.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Well yes...it's sort of like the term "chemicals."

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Fuck organic food. I just want locally grown products.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Fuck organic food. I just want locally grown products.

Bingo! Nothing beats the taste, nutrients, and *deliciousness* of produce that hasn't been in a truck crossing the country for two weeks.

Buy local.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Fuck organic food. I just want locally grown products.

Bingo! Nothing beats the taste, nutrients, and *deliciousness* of produce that hasn't been in a truck crossing the country for two weeks.

Buy local.

Missouri peaches, southern Arkansas Pink tomatoes, fresh field peas, local strawberries, local corn, yellow squash, all soon at my farmers market.

[Brónach 1,330]

My dad grows things in the garden. I've never eaten better lettuce.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Fuck organic food. I just want locally grown products.

Bingo! Nothing beats the taste, nutrients, and *deliciousness* of produce that hasn't been in a truck crossing the country for two weeks.

Buy local.

Missouri peaches, southern Arkansas Pink tomatoes, fresh field peas, local strawberries, local corn, yellow squash, all soon at my farmers market.

That reminds me...our farmers market has the best damn peaches in the world. When they come around I eat peaches for breakfast, lunch, dinner.

Cue innuendo.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Really love your peaches wanna shake your tree.

[Wojo 2,458]

I knew a guy who died from peaches. Drove into their truck.

[Jay 46,242]

yeah. I guess it was a big... missedsteak.

Can't believe no one commented on this. Funny of the week! You'd get a gold star if I wasn't on my phone!

[gkgyver 1,647]

Another example of why a serious discussion just isn't possible on this black hole of a board.

I guess then it's just a coincidence that people's health was at its best shortly after the war, when access to processed food was virtually nonexistent, and dropped then at the same rate as artificially and genetically created food became common.

Sometimes I could swear the board rules are there to simply protect people from other people's stupidity.

[alicebrallice 134]

gk, I've been interested in healthy and clean eating for a long time, so this is familiar territory to me! I'm very well aware of that I can eat taters, brown rice and even pasta every week and still maintain a healthy diet... it's all about moderation. I'm personally very provoked by the whole lchf lifestyle (which is basically like a religion here in sweden, it's insane), but in the end it's all about priorities! I eat a lot of nuts (brazil nuts, almonds, walnuts, unsalted and organic (hehe) peanut butter) and my favorite fruit is avocado... 'nuff said. good fats like that combined with my main carb sources (oats, beans, fruits, berries, carrots, parsnips etc) sounds pretty well-balanced to me. and it leaves room for me to stuff my face with chocolate and popcorn once in a while! loves ma chocolates. and you know, those are all super clean and good carbs, so if I'm excluding anything it's bad carbs! which is not entirely true either. because they're delicious. and I'm not a freaking carb nazi.

and I just recently became a vegetarian, a few months ago or so. but I do still eat fish sometimes, maybe once a month. we'll see how it goes with that

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Another example of why a serious discussion just isn't possible on this black hole of a board.

I guess then it's just a coincidence that people's health was at its best shortly after the war, when access to processed food was virtually nonexistent, and dropped then at the same rate as artificially and genetically created food became common.

Sometimes I could swear the board rules are there to simply protect people from other people's stupidity.

Organic is best has been proven time and again to be overrated.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2012/09/04/benefits-of-organic-food-found-to-be-overrated.html

again as Blume and I discussed local is the best way to go. If you grow things yourself it's best to get heirloom fruits and vegetables, but don't be afraid of hybrids, they can be just as tasty and they are often resistant to pest. as I mentioned earlier Pink Girl tomatoes are my favorite, they are low acid, have a real fresh tomato taste, hell I eat them like apples.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

I guess then it's just a coincidence that people's health was at its best shortly after the war, when access to processed food was virtually nonexistent, and dropped then at the same rate as artificially and genetically created food became common.

First correlation ≠ causation. Second, that still says nothing about organic vs. GMO. That has more to do with access to refined sugar and high calorie nutrient deficient processed food. Third, all the studies and meta-studies that combines the data from all the studies on organic vs. GMO show that there is no significant difference between the two.

Genetically engineered food has been genetically engineered since our hunter gatherer ancestors were picking bigger and juicier fruit from trees over smaller uglier fruit. Even your organic foods are genetically engineered. For example, if you were eating non-genetically modified corn you'd be eating something the size of a knuckle on your finger:

Genetic engineering of fruits and vegetables is not some mystical dark magic. We've been doing it since we were cavemen rummaging berry bushes.

I'm with you on cutting out processed food. But buy fresh ingredients. Don't worry about organic vs. GMO marketing.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Lets discuss the health benefits of organic butter vs butter, the most obvious benefit being the higher cost that the grocers and wholesalers reap. As for the actual health benefits.....apparently butter is now suddenly healthy regardless if it's organic or not. It certainly tastes better.

[ShowUStheHOOK 8]

Lets discuss the health benefits of organic butter vs butter, the most obvious benefit being the higher cost that the grocers and wholesalers reap. As for the actual health benefits.....apparently butter is now suddenly healthy regardless if it's organic or not. It certainly tastes better.

Health Benefits?

This butter be good. ; )

[JoeinAR 1,957]

I've made homemade butter using cream, just place it in a mason jar and shake, after awhile the butter will separate from the butter milk. Strain the butter milk off and wrap the solids in some plastic wrap or wax paper. quick make a piece of toast.

[gkgyver 1,647]

gk, I've been interested in healthy and clean eating for a long time, so this is familiar territory to me! I'm very well aware of that I can eat taters, brown rice and even pasta every week and still maintain a healthy diet... it's all about moderation. I'm personally very provoked by the whole lchf lifestyle (which is basically like a religion here in sweden, it's insane), but in the end it's all about priorities! I eat a lot of nuts (brazil nuts, almonds, walnuts, unsalted and organic (hehe) peanut butter) and my favorite fruit is avocado... 'nuff said. good fats like that combined with my main carb sources (oats, beans, fruits, berries, carrots, parsnips etc) sounds pretty well-balanced to me. and it leaves room for me to stuff my face with chocolate and popcorn once in a while! loves ma chocolates. and you know, those are all super clean and good carbs, so if I'm excluding anything it's bad carbs! which is not entirely true either. because they're delicious. and I'm not a freaking carb nazi. and I just recently became a vegetarian, a few months ago or so. but I do still eat fish sometimes, maybe once a month. we'll see how it goes with that

I don't know what you mean by "Ichf" lifestyle, but I can't even begin to tell you how much pleasure I feel reading your post. Sweeter than music

What I found is that when you gradually reduce the amount of meat you eat, at some point you'll realise that you actually don't need it at all.

Over Easter, I did a 14 day detox/fasting period, and it absolutely tuned my body to feel what is good and what just isn't.

[Brónach 1,330]

What I found is that when you gradually reduce the amount of meat you eat, at some point you'll realise that you actually don't need it at all.

I've realized this with stuff like bread and the like, but not with meat. Always at some point I'm just craving for some dead animal.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

It's probably the body craving protein, and that's the easiest way for us as animals to consume it. There are days when I'll be like "I need some meat!"

[alicebrallice 134]

I don't know what you mean by "Ichf" lifestyle, but I can't even begin to tell you how much pleasure I feel reading your post. Sweeter than music

What I found is that when you gradually reduce the amount of meat you eat, at some point you'll realise that you actually don't need it at all.

Over Easter, I did a 14 day detox/fasting period, and it absolutely tuned my body to feel what is good and what just isn't.

lchf = low carb high fat. it's extremely big here in sweden.

yes! exactly. it's really all about habits and laziness imo.

what did you eat during the detox period?

What I found is that when you gradually reduce the amount of meat you eat, at some point you'll realise that you actually don't need it at all.

I've realized this with stuff like bread and the like, but not with meat. Always at some point I'm just craving for some dead animal.

maybe you didn't try out any of the awesome alternatives? quorn fillets marinated in olive oil, garlic, thyme and rosemary is a new favorite of mine

It's probably the body craving protein, and that's the easiest way for us as animals to consume it. There are days when I'll be like "I need some meat!"

easiest? how so?

[Brónach 1,330]

But ternasco, jamón ibérico, morcilla, butifarra, chorizo, salchichón, salami, fuet!

[alicebrallice 134]

you're welcome!

[Koray Savas 2,260]

It's probably the body craving protein, and that's the easiest way for us as animals to consume it. There are days when I'll be like "I need some meat!"

easiest? how so?

Meat contains the highest number of essential proteins that our bodies need. If you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have to ensure you eat a variety of different grains and beans to make up for it. Meat is the easiest way to stay nutritionally healthy. Like you say, it's still all about moderation. There's a reason why our species is not herbivore.

My girlfriend is vegetarian, and one of her best friends is a vegan. What I don't understand is the need for vegans to call all their animal free products 'meat.' Vegan chicken! Well, it's not chicken, is it? So why call it chicken?

I've also learned that most veggies and vegans secretly love meat but don't eat it because of the moral dilemma or because they're some pseudo-environmentalist.

[Jay 46,242]

Another example of why a serious discussion just isn't possible on this black hole of a board.

I guess then it's just a coincidence that people's health was at its best shortly after the war, when access to processed food was virtually nonexistent, and dropped then at the same rate as artificially and genetically created food became common.

Sometimes I could swear the board rules are there to simply protect people from other people's stupidity.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. What board rules prevent you from talking about organic foods?

[gkgyver 1,647]

@ Alice

I actually didn't eat anything per se. Six glasses of clean water with maple sirup, cayenne, and lemon juice, plus the same amount of just clean water. And one bottle of warm sea salt solution in the morning to clean out the intestines and everything that is collected there.

I did that 11 days, and then it's a period of three days in which you ease out of it, first a day with three litres of orange juice, then a day with vegetable juice and fruit, then a day with fruit and vegetables, and finally a return to the usual diet.

I'm not big on soy products. First of all, there's some controversy on how much of its proteins is actually digestable, and secondly, if you want good soy, it's usually not cheap, and in relation to the taste, I wouldn't spend money on that.

Better sources for protein are certain vegetables, peas, and especially nuts and seeds imo.

Meat may have protein, but just a fraction of it is digestable, and generally, it does far more harm than good, even if you have the best meat you can buy.

Also, it's generally right that your body will ask for what it needs, but many mistake that with habit or simply addiction. Most industrial food is very addictive, in a bad way.

[alicebrallice 134]

It's probably the body craving protein, and that's the easiest way for us as animals to consume it. There are days when I'll be like "I need some meat!"

easiest? how so?

Meat contains the highest number of essential proteins that our bodies need. If you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have to ensure you eat a variety of different grains and beans to make up for it. Meat is the easiest way to stay nutritionally healthy. Like you say, it's still all about moderation. There's a reason why our species is not herbivore.

that's simply not true. please read this. people seem to think that we need tons of proteins and its best source is meat, which apparently you think is the easiest way to stay nutritionally healthy? dafuq? because of the proteins? if you have a normal-varied and balanced diet you simply don't need meat. you don't have to ensure anything! just eat normal food

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

But ternasco, jamón ibérico, morcilla, butifarra, chorizo, salchichón, salami, fuet!

According to one of my closest friends, who is from Madrid...there are no vegetarians in Spain.

I'm not convinced by some of the made up science that says meat by definition is unhealthy.

Human beings, and it's simian forefathers have had meat as part of their food intake for hundreds of thousands of years. We have done quite well by it.

It's like those people who suddenly say cow milk is bad for you, or you should not eat cheese because it has bacteria.

When consumed in moderation, there is nothing wrong with eating meat!

[alicebrallice 134]

Human beings, and it's simian forefathers have had meat as part of their food intake for hundreds of thousands of years. We have done quite well by it.

It's like those people who suddenly say cow milk is bad for you, or you should not eat cheese because it has bacteria.

oh yeah, let's justify our habits and behavior with tradition and what we've been doing in the past. that's an awesome thing to do!

When consumed in moderation, there is nothing wrong with eating meat!

aaaand then come the other perspectives

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Studies show vegetarians get improvements in cognitive ability via creatine supplementation.

That alone makes me question some claims here: I'm not sure you're getting everything you need without meat.

Granted being able to think and reason at full capacity may not be high on your list of life goals.

I tried vegetarianism back in my crazy California college days. I enjoyed being forced to try new foods. But I didn't get much else out of it.

Moderation, whole, and variety is my motto now days.

[Brónach 1,330]

I don't limit myself on meat. I only limit myself on grains (I've banned wheat whatsoever) and that stuff. Veggies, fruit, meat, fish, nuts for me. It makes me feel good and absurdly simple to cook and prepare in almost any combination. I wish I had access to more berries here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Human beings, and it's simian forefathers have had meat as part of their food intake for hundreds of thousands of years. We have done quite well by it.

It's like those people who suddenly say cow milk is bad for you, or you should not eat cheese because it has bacteria.

oh yeah, let's justify our habits and behavior with tradition and what we've been doing in the past. that's an awesome thing to do!

You didnt read what I was saying.

Human beings have eaten meat for millennia. Milk and cheese have been consumed by us for thousands of years. You CANNOT state that this is bad for us.

When consumed in moderation, there is nothing wrong with eating meat!

aaaand then come the other perspectives

No, everything must be taken in moderation. Water can kill you if you drink too much. too much oxygen is actually toxic for us. Even chocolate can be poisonous if we eat too much.

[Jay 46,242]

Another example of why a serious discussion just isn't possible on this black hole of a board.

I guess then it's just a coincidence that people's health was at its best shortly after the war, when access to processed food was virtually nonexistent, and dropped then at the same rate as artificially and genetically created food became common.

Sometimes I could swear the board rules are there to simply protect people from other people's stupidity.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. What board rules prevent you from talking about organic foods?

Hello? Bueller?

[alicebrallice 134]

Human beings, and it's simian forefathers have had meat as part of their food intake for hundreds of thousands of years. We have done quite well by it.

It's like those people who suddenly say cow milk is bad for you, or you should not eat cheese because it has bacteria.

oh yeah, let's justify our habits and behavior with tradition and what we've been doing in the past. that's an awesome thing to do!

You didnt read what I was saying.

Human beings have eaten meat for millennia. Milk and cheese have been consumed by us for thousands of years. You CANNOT state that this is bad for us.

so... you're saying that you CANNOT state that something is bad for you just because you have been doing it for a long time?

haha... dude!

No, everything must be taken in moderation. Water can kill you if you drink too much. too much oxygen is actually toxic for us. Even chocolate can be poisonous if we eat too much.

I said other perspectives. I wasn't talking about nutrition anymore.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Alice, at the end of the day if you want to do it go for it.

Make sure you're getting enough iron, especially since you are a woman. Big risk for vegetarians, especially women.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

meat is wonderful. those products Alice pictured cannot be too healthy as they are all 100% processed.

I will try most veggies, but after all these years I've discovered I have no use for carrots, or cauliflower. turnips and rutabagas do not taste good either no matter how my grandmother tried to convince me. truth is she preferred potatoes to them.

Alice there is a lot to be said for traditions. there are reasons why Kosher and Halel products are generally high quality.

We know that Vegan can be an unhealthy lifestyle without supplemental products.

I don't insist on meat in every meal, but I'm happiest when there is. I love beans with just a bit of pork fat in them. I love green beans cooked down for hours till they are soft with new potatoes. I love boiled yellow squash. I love different lettuces, spinach, tomatoes, cukes, pecans, cranberries in a salad. my dogs love the white of an egg, it's good for their coats.

I love a cold left over ear of corn with just a bit of salt and pepper for breakfast,

so Alice do you eat any seafood, or chicken, I know lots of "vegetarians" who include eggs, and seafood, and a few chicken and poultry.

[ShowUStheHOOK 8]

Another example of why a serious discussion just isn't possible on this black hole of a board.

I guess then it's just a coincidence that people's health was at its best shortly after the war, when access to processed food was virtually nonexistent, and dropped then at the same rate as artificially and genetically created food became common.

Sometimes I could swear the board rules are there to simply protect people from other people's stupidity.

I have no idea what you're going on about here. What board rules prevent you from talking about organic foods?

Hello? Bueller?

I literally LOL'ed. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd the winner of funniest post today iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis................................. Bueller.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

so... you're saying that you CANNOT state that something is bad for you just because you have been doing it for a long time?

haha... dude!

yes, because it disproves that eating these things, in proper doses, is not bad for you.

I never said there were no alternatives...there are.

But eating meat is not unhealthy.

Haha...chick!

[gkgyver 1,647]

Human beings, and it's simian forefathers have had meat as part of their food intake for hundreds of thousands of years. We have done quite well by it.

It's like those people who suddenly say cow milk is bad for you, or you should not eat cheese because it has bacteria.

oh yeah, let's justify our habits and behavior with tradition and what we've been doing in the past. that's an awesome thing to do!

You didnt read what I was saying.

Human beings have eaten meat for millennia. Milk and cheese have been consumed by us for thousands of years. You CANNOT state that this is bad for us.

so... you're saying that you CANNOT state that something is bad for you just because you have been doing it for a long time?

haha... dude!

That's precisely the problem.

Bad food doesn't have its effects immediately to such an extent that you notice it (well, some do, I do, but we're exceptions). Or, the other way around, you got used to it as such an early age that it becomes normal, to the point where organic seems outlandish and foolish again.

It also depends on what you define as organic food. There is the food that is fertilised a certain way, without chemicals, but still comes from the engineered F1 Hybrid seeds, which you find in every supermarket. And then there is the food that is grown from original, untampered seeds on good soil.

That is a world of difference.

Have you seen those awful crops that grow from F1 Hybrids? They're ill from birth. Corn that comes from those Hybrids has been proven to not only have little nutrients, but also plenty of toxins.

From healthy soil grow healthy crops, which gives healthy food that produces healthy people. And the other way around. It doesn't need to be discussed, it's a rule of nature.

Also, there is simply the fact that the industrial lobby does a hell of a lot to keep certain studies at bay, like the French long term study a year ago, that showed Monsanto plants create huge tumors in mice over a prolonged time. That study showed up in the obscure pages of the media for two or three days before it simply vanished.

Again, results of bad food come over the course of years. Why is it that since the industrialisation and tampering of food, rates of diabetes, obesity, cancer and other systematic diseases skyrocket? It's not genetic (how I love this explanation ... it basically says "we have no clue but hold on until we find something!"), it's not coincidence, and it also isn't the wrath of the gods, it's simply the fact that people eat and are fed CRAP.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

what a load of bs.

you seriously have no idea what you're talking about.

Hybrids have no value. that's simply wrong. All corn is a hybrid, it doesn't not grow in nature the way it is today without the hand of man.

now if you eat tilapia, you're eating a food that is fed crap. literally.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

most of those vegetarian or vegan meals are or contain processed foods.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

gkgyver,

A major reason chronic diseases are "skyrocketing" is because life expectancy is the highest it's ever been. People aren't dying from polio and tuberculosis. They are living long enough to be stricken by cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, etc.

It's difficult to be killed by cancer when you've just died of whooping cough at age 2.

Another major factor is screening. We detect more of such diseases now. In the past a person could live and die at age 55 with a cancer and never know. They finally succumb to a secondary infection caused by the cancer and that's how they were thought to die.

It's hard to mark someone as "Killed by Cancer" when you don't know they have cancer.

[ShowUStheHOOK 8]

gkgyver, A major reason chronic diseases are "skyrocketing" is because life expectancy is the highest it's ever been. People aren't dying from polio and tuberculosis. They are living long enough to be stricken by cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, etc. It's difficult to be killed by cancer when you've just died of whooping cough at age 2.

True. then you also have cases of people born with a chronic disease..

[gkgyver 1,647]

[Jay 46,242]

I still don't understand what rules you were referring to that you thought would prevent you from having this discussion? Why aren't you answering my question?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

You have no factual backup. You are treading in the realm of quackery.

If you believe I am in error provide peer-reviewed sources to back you up.

Also, gkgyver, the Monsanto study you cite about rat tumors was bunk. The head of the guy performing the study is a homeopath and a noted anti-GMO activist. That in and of itself has no bearing on the merits of the study...but I like to think if someone believes in magical waters, they're probably not the best scientist.

But the study itself was evaluated by other scientists (with no connections to Monsanto) and it did not hold up to scientific scrutiny.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for Monsanto...because yes they are assholes, but this particular story you are talking about is utter pseudoscience.

[gkgyver 1,647]

It's a good thing I'm dealing with such BS on a regular basis, and get the regular feedback from people that I'm right, so that I don't need to immerse myself too much into this.

I'm still proud of Alice though, we need a hell of a lot more people like her.

I still don't understand what rules you were referring to that you thought would prevent you from having this discussion? Why aren't you answering my question?

It was a general observation independent from this thread.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Homeopathy is like astrology.

Rubbish!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

For those interested in information about the GM Rat tumor study and why it failed to meet scientific standards:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/09/24/bad-science-on-gmos-it-reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement/

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-gm-corn-rat-study/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22287-study-linking-gm-crops-and-cancer-questioned.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

Again, Monsanto is the shit of the earth when it comes to companies. Pretty close to meeting the definition of pure evil. I'm not defending the company's other practices. I'm merely showing why this particularly study is highly questionable.

Simply put:

Six French scientific academies issued a statement on 19 October, saying the Séralini study could not reverse previous conclusions that this and other GM crops are safe, because of problems with the experimental design, statistical analysis and animals used, and inadequate data. Meanwhile the European Food Safety Authority declared the study "of insufficient scientific quality to be considered as valid for risk assessment". As promised, the organisation invited Séralini "to share key additional information". That invitation was made on 4 October, and repeated on 19 October. Today, EFSA announced it had (again) made all the data it used to approve the GM maize available to Séralini.

[Brónach 1,330]

Hybrids have no value. that's simply wrong. All corn is a hybrid, it doesn't not grow in nature the way it is today without the hand of man.

Most of the plants we cultivate have been modified by artificial selection for thousand of years for that. Until pretty much yesterday tomatoes were still normally green and carrots not necessarily orange. And recently they started producing new, randomly mutating breeds by irradiation. Which people ate.

But for some reason, careful and tested manipulation of specific genes is seen as the agricultural Evil!

That said. People. Less corn, please. In fact, no corn at all is quite nice!