Man Of Steel (2013 Superman reboot directed by Zack Snyder)

[Quintus 6,495]

Of course, the actual film will have to be good first. If the film turned out absolutely awful, people most likely wouldn't refer to the score as being "fucking epic", because nobody would care enough to be bothered. Chances are though that won't happen and so it'll seem to the naysayers that they were proved right about the new music, which is convenient.

Now all of a sudden these same guys are trying to convince everyone that John Williams' music is to blame for the failure of Superman Returns. Yep, Singer etc didn't have anything to do with that, it was all the cheesy score's fault.

Some awesome conclusionional leaps going on in here, lol.

[publicist 4,650]

It is just like it is, dude.

The "cheesy score" was by John Ottman, btw, and i dare to say that if Warner already knew what winning formula the re-imagined BATMAN became, they probably would never have made the Singer version as it is.

We can talk this nonsense further and further, but what's to debate? That the earth is flat? This new trampling Godzilla of a blockbuster is made of exactly the same ingredients that made other blockbusters a worldwide phenomenon and probably will become one itself - and the music has probably a hand in this, as painful as this may come to fans of the Williams march.

[Quintus 6,495]

I dunno, I can't subscribe to your theory I'm afraid, sorry.

Lee - who remembers very well that the injection of Williams' original music in Superman Returns was one of the best things about it.

[A24 5,156]

First the colors weren't the same. Then the different music became a problem. Soon the fans of the 1978 film will demand that Cavill's face needs to be digitally replaced with Christopher Reeve's head.

[publicist 4,650]

So now we know Quint liked the old SUPERMAN march in SR and will probably hate Hans' RCP doodlings in MOS. Urgent call to Warner Bros: fire Hans and call Ken Thorne!

[Quintus 6,495]

Well I'm pro Zimmer overall actually, but he has lost me a bit in recent years. Of what I've heard of his MoS score, that's sadly and disappointingly not about to change. Of course, that pragmatic view now makes me a complete John Williams fanboy, apparently.

[Wojo 2,458]

First the colors weren't the same. Then the different music became a problem. Soon the fans of the 1978 film will demand that Cavill's face needs to be digitally replaced with Christopher Reeve's head.

I have an idea! Let's adapt Williams' music and digitally add Christopher Reeve to Superman III and IV. We can really turn those into awesome movies if we... Oh wait.

[Brónach 1,330]

We could try to accept this as a different angle (mostly untrue) and as a sign of the times (sadly true).

But we all know that if we use the appropiate bits from JW's score in the appropiate scenes of this film, it would kick the crap out of the original scenes.

[crocodile 9,724]

Smith's whole explanation of the story is fucking hilarious.

Yes, and that's why I'm going to post a video of him doing just that. For no reason whatsoever.

Karol

[JoeinAR 1,957]

These filmmakers have the right to use a score of their own creation. That doesn't mean that John's music wouldn't work. In fact it would work quite well. John's theme for Superman is a timeless classic fit for any generation. pub and alex disagree, which is interesting because pub's ageist comments do not reflect Alex's beliefs.

perhaps pub can explain why Zimmer's Man of Steel Themes are wonderful, and how they fit the film perfectly. How they are a modern take for a modern society. Alex can tell us how they are fresh and new, without a bit of curds and whey.

[Quintus 6,495]

We could try to accept this as a different angle (mostly untrue) and as a sign of the times (sadly true).

But we all know that if we use the appropiate bits from JW's score in the appropiate scenes of this film, it would kick the crap out of the original scenes.

And when I think of a contemporary John Williams Superman soundtrack I think largely of the B fanfare, which is still as badass as ever and perfectly suitable thirty years later. The recent modern treatment of the Universal logo music didn't destroy the traditional vs contemporary fabric of the universe, either. For the sake of countering the bull claims in this thread; there's nothing to suggest that approach would negatively affect this new movie. And anyway, if I remember rightly, even Singer didn't apply the "cheesy" A fanfare of the march for his movie's underscore.

The cheese argument is pretty redundant tbh.

[publicist 4,650]

perhaps pub can explain why Zimmer's Man of Steel Themes are wonderful, and how they fit the film perfectly. How they are a modern take for a modern society. Alex can tell us how they are fresh and new, without a bit of curds and whey.

Why should either of us? You are a regular consumer of current american media products, so you can answer those questions perfectly well for yourself. It only is this pig-headed attachment to your own nostalgia that makes this such an issue: i repeat, there are no million-men marches demanding the old SUPERMAN theme, A or B, for this slick new blockbuster. Period.

While i doubt that i will watch this movie in cinema, i'm certain Zimmer knows how to hip it up and it will work - like with POTC, BATMAN et al. It certainly will be a lousy score - judging by the samples - but it will fit wonderfully with modern blockbuster aesthetics.

[Brónach 1,330]

We could try to accept this as a different angle (mostly untrue) and as a sign of the times (sadly true).

But we all know that if we use the appropiate bits from JW's score in the appropiate scenes of this film, it would kick the crap out of the original scenes.

And when I think of a contemporary John Williams Superman soundtrack I think largely of the B fanfare, which is still as badass as ever and perfectly suitable thirty years later. The recent modern treatment of the Universal logo music didn't destroy the traditional vs contemporary fabric of the universe, either. For the sake of countering the bull claims in this thread; there's nothing to suggest that approach would negatively affect this new movie. And anyway, if I remember rightly, even Singer didn't apply the "cheesy" A fanfare of the march for his movie's underscore.

The cheese argument is pretty redundant tbh.

A modern JW score for this film could have strong shades of War of the Worlds in it, I believe. Or something like it.

Of course the B fanfare rules.

[crocodile 9,724]

perhaps pub can explain why Zimmer's Man of Steel Themes are wonderful, and how they fit the film perfectly. How they are a modern take for a modern society. Alex can tell us how they are fresh and new, without a bit of curds and whey.

Why should either of us? You are a regular consumer of current american media products, so you can answer those questions perfectly well for yourself. It only is this pig-headed attachment to your own nostalgia that makes this such an issue: i repeat, there are no million-men marches demanding the old SUPERMAN theme, A or B, for this slick new blockbuster. Period.

While i doubt that i will watch this movie in cinema, i'm certain Zimmer knows how to hip it up and it will work - like with POTC, BATMAN et al. It certainly will be a lousy score - judging by the samples - but it will fit wonderfully with modern blockbuster aesthetics.

Yeah, besides they need to sell some albums.

Karol

[Brónach 1,330]

but it will fit wonderfully with modern blockbuster aesthetics.

I don't really know how to react to this claim.

[publicist 4,650]

How about not giving your money to it?

[A24 5,156]

First the colors weren't the same. Then the different music became a problem. Soon the fans of the 1978 film will demand that Cavill's face needs to be digitally replaced with Christopher Reeve's head.

I have an idea! Let's adapt Williams' music and digitally add Christopher Reeve to Superman III and IV. We can really turn those into awesome movies if we... Oh wait.

Proof that vibrant colors and Williams' theme (the 2 laws for great filmmaking according to the average JWfan) are no guarantee for greatness.

Look how vibrant! Is that want you want? Really?

[JoeinAR 1,957]

perhaps pub can explain why Zimmer's Man of Steel Themes are wonderful, and how they fit the film perfectly. How they are a modern take for a modern society. Alex can tell us how they are fresh and new, without a bit of curds and whey.

Why should either of us? You are a regular consumer of current american media products, so you can answer those questions perfectly well for yourself. It only is this pig-headed attachment to your own nostalgia that makes this such an issue: i repeat, there are no million-men marches demanding the old SUPERMAN theme, A or B, for this slick new blockbuster. Period.

While i doubt that i will watch this movie in cinema, i'm certain Zimmer knows how to hip it up and it will work - like with POTC, BATMAN et al. It certainly will be a lousy score - judging by the samples - but it will fit wonderfully with modern blockbuster aesthetics.

because both of you are better equipped than I to judge Zimmer's music. I'm laughing at your idea of a million man march, that's hysterical, I'm sure you meant to be humorous, because millions always march over movie aesthetics. They really do.

[publicist 4,650]

Oh yes...i'm sure the BO of MAN OF STEEL is in perfect worldwide danger because "THE B THEME" is not used.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Oh yes...i'm sure the BO of MAN OF STEEL is in perfect worldwide danger because "THE B THEME" is not used.

why would you bring that up? the boxoffice potential of any film has never been based on it's film score.

MOS will do well in the US, and probably lesser so in foreign countries. fans will be developed based on the score but not enough to swing bo $$$.

[publicist 4,650]

Isn't that the point? It doesn't matter, WB has launched a "new" franchise for a young generation, it gets a score written within the boundaries of a established musical formula, the old 70's material isn't referenced - i don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Pub, if you missed it I said that I am willing ot accept Zimmer's work, just as I accept Desplat's work on HPDH. We all knew whatever score was written it would be inferior to anything JW would do but thats okay. I've said all along that the filmmakers had a right to do their own musical score. I will accept it for what it is. But those that think Williams music wouldn't work on this film are wrong. .

First the colors weren't the same. Then the different music became a problem. Soon the fans of the 1978 film will demand that Cavill's face needs to be digitally replaced with Christopher Reeve's head.

I have an idea! Let's adapt Williams' music and digitally add Christopher Reeve to Superman III and IV. We can really turn those into awesome movies if we... Oh wait.

Proof that vibrant colors and Williams' theme (the 2 laws for great filmmaking according to the average JWfan) are no guarantee for greatness.

Nobody ever said vibrant colors and Williams' theme are a guarantee for greatness.

What people did say (well, at least I said that) is that they prefer vibrant colors over a grim washed-out look, and Williams' music over what they heard of Zimmer's score so far. They stated a personal preference. They never said that in order to be great, the movie had to have both, and that vibrant colors and William's music are the only way to go with Superman. Stop oversimplifying things in order to back up your argument, please.

yes but you see the world as a happy exciting vibrant place.

[publicist 4,650]

I think having a main title with the Williams fanfare blaring four minutes wouldn't work - like it didn't in SR (apart from those accepting only this music, anyway).

The reason, i think, is simple: it is a kind and style of music belonging to another place and time. For the intended audience of teenagers and young adults, it will feel like they are not let in on the joke - not a good way of introducing your proper new hero.

[Brónach 1,330]

I don't really want main titles these days for many films. I llike just jumping in. I do love very developed ending credits.

I hate that it seems that the only possible music would be something like Superman and something like Zimmer's Superman. It gets on my nerves.

[Jay 46,242]

yea, the main title is dead in modern blockbuster/action/scifi films. The last one that stood out at all was Source Code in 2011. Before that... I don't even know. I guess the Elfman/Young Spider-man films.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

the williams theme at the beginning of Superman Returns worked wonderfully.

We need more opening credits, Jumping directly into the universe as film makers often do today(mistakenly so) doesn't help their films. but most filmmakers today think quick jump cuts are cool too.

[Brónach 1,330]

yea, the main title is dead in modern blockbuster/action/scifi films. The last one that stood out at all was Source Code in 2011. Before that... I don't even know. I guess the Elfman/Young Spider-man films.

The Tintin one was cool.

My thing with main titles is that they tend to make me think I'm watching a film. I like the idea of making it more like starting a book, or opening a book in the middle, where you don't get the names of the author or the publisher or whatever intersecting with the pure narrative. Making it more organic.

Internally, I'm even a bit against the idea of making the original score overlap with the opening logos. I say have these logos be their own thing, then start the film as a whole.

Of course it depends of the film a lot so that's just generalizing. Sometimes, I just love some sort of opening credits.

[Jay 46,242]

Oh right, of course! Love that one!

[JoeinAR 1,957]

yes it was.

[KK 3,313]

That was awesome

[Matt C 605]

yea, the main title is dead in modern blockbuster/action/scifi films. The last one that stood out at all was Source Code in 2011. Before that... I don't even know. I guess the Elfman/Young Spider-man films.

It's not completely dead. Dark Shadows and Oz The Great and Powerful both featured main title sequences.

I do think studios and filmmakers are shifting toward end title sequences, like Marvel Studios' and Pixar's more recent films.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Quintus 6,495]

Honestly pub, I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make here. The main thing that stands out about it is you're for some reason on a crusade to argue with people about Superman and its music (a movie and score you're not particulary interested in no less) and the evident mistake that you think you know what others, including those here, want from this whole affair. But the truth is your bounding presumptions are well wide of the mark. Maybe your crusade is wasted here and would be better served over on the Superman Fan site forums, where your generalisation of others might hit the target a little more accurately.

[publicist 4,650]

I think i made my point very clear. If it is 'wide off the mark', i don't know, i see your straw-grasping above and think they i'm right on the money.

[Quintus 6,495]

Isn't that the point? It doesn't matter, WB has launched a "new" franchise for a young generation, it gets a score written within the boundaries of a established musical formula, the old 70's material isn't referenced - i don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.

I am under the impression that people are not arguing otherwise. This is what I'm referring to above. As far as I can tell, this started out about a few here reckoning Williams' music would suit the new film, nothing more. The motivations of the film makers, the execs and Mystic Meg the box office fortune teller were not a part of that. You brought that to the table.

I think i made my point very clear. If it is 'wide off the mark', i don't know, i see your straw-grasping above and think they i'm right on the money.

Grasping at straws? Why would I or anyone else do that? I'm not attempting to convince you of any thing, but merely sharing my own opinion. Is it important for you to always maintain the persuasive argument stance in discussions? Phrases like "clutching at straws" imply a combative disposition, which is, well, a bit daft and unnecessary.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

yea, the main title is dead in modern blockbuster/action/scifi films. The last one that stood out at all was Source Code in 2011. Before that... I don't even know. I guess the Elfman/Young Spider-man films.

The Tintin one was cool.

My thing with main titles is that they tend to make me think I'm watching a film. I like the idea of making it more like starting a book, or opening a book in the middle, where you don't get the names of the author or the publisher or whatever intersecting with the pure narrative. Making it more organic.

Internally, I'm even a bit against the idea of making the original score overlap with the opening logos. I say have these logos be their own thing, then start the film as a whole.

Of course it depends of the film a lot so that's just generalizing. Sometimes, I just love some sort of opening credits.

I prefer a well edited and scored prologue more than any type of main titles. Other than those, Nolan style works perfectly fine for me.

[publicist 4,650]

I am under the impression that people are not arguing otherwise. This is what I'm referring to above. As far as I can tell, this started out about a few here reckoning Williams' music would suit the new film, nothing more. The motivations of the film makers, the execs and Mystic Meg the box office fortune teller were not a part of that. You brought that to the table.Grasping at straws? Why would I or anyone else do that? I'm not attempting to convince you of any thing, but merely share my own opinion. Is it important for you to always maintain the persuasive argument stance in discussions? Phrases like "clutching at straws" imply a combative disposition, which is, well, a bit daft and unnecessary.

I heard you. Now move on.

[Quintus 6,495]

Leaf and book etc

[Wycket 36]

Bond has proven that a franchise can reinvent itself while maintaining its classic theme. I have no doubt that Superman could have done the same.

I am open to a new theme, and quite like the trailer music, but there will always be that "what might have been" feeling I suppose.

[MSM 194]

Well, it's true that proper main titles these days are mainly heard in old franchises and sequels...not in the modern commercial output. Are they regarded old fashioned...or are modern film composers not capable??

[Wojo 2,458]

I'll be at the Reflecting Pool tomorrow for the million man march to protest Zimmer's Superman music. Who's coming with me, man? Who's coming with me?

[JoeinAR 1,957]

it simply may be a trend like on tv where main these songs have virtually disappeared.

I gotta say I'm so tired of end titles being 10 to 12 minute long, do we really need to see star actors dog walker given film credit.

I'll see you there Wojo, no hard feelings okay?

[Wojo 2,458]

Not until you buy me that first drink. Wait, that was... Never mind.

JK. No, none. Arguing online is like winning the... You know the rest.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

name your poison.

[crocodile 9,724]

UK TV spot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgnW-9mEQow

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

Damn! This film should come!

[crocodile 9,724]

Karol

[A24 5,156]

One more month.

If it's good, I'll praise Snyder. If it's bad, I'll blame Nolan.

Alex - who will probably see this one in theaters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

So will I!

My first Snyder film in the cinema.