Complete Cue List: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey by Howard Shore (Full Analysis coming soon)

[Jay 46,244]

OK folks I've been working on a complete analysis and still am (such a long score! It’s taking forever to dissect and understand and then write about), but in the meantime I thought I'd post my complete cue list as a bit of a tease and some preliminary information.

All cue titles are my own creations - I have no idea what the actual cue titles are. I purposely chose names for every cue that were different from OST titles to prevent confusion when talking about a cue vs a track, other than a few cases where that wasn't necessary.

Without further ado, here is my complete cue list:

Cue		Original Version		Revised Film Version
1	Prologue	SE 01 My Dear Frodo [0:00-4:14]	4:14	Unreleased Insert>	1:41
2	Smaug's Attack	SE 01 My Dear Frodo [4:14-end]	3:49
3	In A Hole In The Ground...	SE 02 Old Friends [0:00-1:02]	1:02
4	Invitation Replies	Unreleased (0:08) / SE 02 Old Friends [1:02-1:51] (0:49) / SE 02 [3:18-3:32] (0:14)	1:11	Unreleased Insert>	0:14
5	No Admittance	Unreleased (0:19) / SE 02 Old Friends [1:51-2:51] (1:00)	1:19
	UNKNOWN	OST 02 Old Friends [1:51-2:32]	0:40
6	Good Morning	SE 02 Old Friends [2:51-3:07] (0:16) / Unreleased (0:20) / SE 02 [3:07-3:18] (0:11)	0:37
7	I'm Gandalf	SE 02 Old Friends [3:32-4:18]	0:46
8	The Mark	SE 02 Old Friends [4:18-end]	0:42
9	Dwalin	SE 03 An Unexpected Party [0:00-0:35]	0:35
10	Balin	Unreleased	0:41
11	Visitors	SE 03 An Unexpected Party [0:35-1:12]	0:37
12	Fili and Kili	Unreleased (0:07) / SE 03 An Unexpected Party [1:12-2:06] (0:54) / Unreleased (0:04)	1:06
13	Chamomile	SE 03 An Unexpected Party [2:06-end]	2:02	Unreleased Insert>	1:04
14	Crochet	Unreleased	0:40
15	Dishes	Unreleased	0:23
16	Blunt The Knives	SE 04 Blunt The Knives	1:01
17	Thorin	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [0:00-0:29] / Unreleased (0:39)	1:08
	DELETED SCENE	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [0:29-0:55]	0:26
18	The Lonely Mountain	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [0:55-1:53]	0:58
19	Thrain's Key	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [1:53-3:18]	1:25
20	Burglar	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [3:18-3:52]	0:34
21	Contract	Unreleased	0:37
22	Not Responsible For His Fate	Unreleased	0:23
23	Faint	Unreleased	0:29
	DELETED SCENE	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [3:52-4:34]	0:42
24	The Invention of Golf	SE 05 Axe or Sword? [4:34-end]	1:25	Unreleased	1:02
25	No Choice	Unreleased	0:53
26	Misty Mountains	SE 06 Misty Mountains	1:42
27	The Adventure Begins	SE 07 The Adventure Begins	2:05	Unreleased Insert>	0:34
28	Welcome To The Company	SE 08 The World Is Ahead [0:00-1:21]	1:21	Unreleased	1:15
29	Home Is Behind You	SE 08 The World Is Ahead [1:21-1:24] (0:03) / Unreleased (0:15) / SE 08 [1:24-end] (0:56)	1:14
30	Myrtle	Unreleased	0:11
31	Throat Cutters	Unreleased	0:17
32	An Ancient Enemy	SE 09 An Ancient Enemy [0:00-4:33] / Unreleased (0:31) / SE 09 [4:33-end] (0:25)	5:48
33	Five Wizards	SE 10 Radagast The Brown [0:00-0:50]	0:50	Unreleased Insert>	0:38
34	Witchcraft	SE 10 Radagast The Brown [0:50-3:40]	2:50	Unreleased	2:39
	DELETED SCENE	OST 09 Radagast The Brown [3:40-end]	1:15
35	Spiders Recede	SE 10 Radagast The Brown [4:45-end]	1:54
36	Show Me	Unreleased	0:22
37	Gandalf Leaves	Unreleased	0:32
38	Missing Ponies	SE 11 The Trollshaws [0:00-0:54]	0:54
39	Trolls	SE 11 The Trollshaws [0:54-end]	1:15
40	Mutton	SE 12 Roast Mutton [0:00-0:27]	0:27
41	Starving	Unreleased (0:41) / SE 12 Roast Mutton [0:27-0:32] (0:05) / Unreleased (0:08) / SE 12 [0:32-1:35] (1:03)	1:57
42	Burglarobbit	SE 12 Roast Mutton [1:35-2:06]	0:31
43	Drop Him	SE 12 Roast Mutton [2:06-3:38]	1:32	OST 10 Roast Mutton [2:06-3:38]	1:32
44	Seasoning	Unreleased	0:34
45	Skin Them First	Unreleased (0:09) / SE 12 Roast Mutton [3:38-4:33] (0:55)	1:04
46	The Dawn Will Take You All	SE 12 Roast Mutton [4:33-end]	0:24
47	Stone Trolls	Unreleased	0:18
48	A Troll-hoard	SE 13 A Troll-hoard	2:39
49	Elven blade	SE 14 The Hill Of Sorcery [0:00-1:05]	1:05
50	Stick Insect	SE 14 The Hill Of Sorcery [1:05-1:40]	0:35
51	Dol Guldur	SE 14 The Hill Of Sorcery [1:40-3:23]	1:43
52	Quickly	SE 14 The Hill Of Sorcery [3:23-end]	0:28
53	Gundabad Wargs	Unreleased	1:13
54	Rhosgobel Rabbits	Unreleased (0:01) / SE 15 Warg-scouts [0:00-2:01]	2:02
55	Run!	SE 15 Warg-scouts [2:01-2:06] (0:05) / Unreleased (1:25) / SE 15 [2:06-2:28] (0:22)	1:52
56	Elf Hunters	SE 15 Warg-scouts [2:28-end]	0:35
57	Rivendell	SE 16 The Hidden Valley [0:00-1:36]	1:36
58	Leave The Talking To Me	SE 16 The Hidden Valley [1:36-end]	2:13
59	Welcome Thorin	SE 17 Moon Runes [0:00-0:58]	0:58
60	The Valley of Imladris	Unreleased	1:33
61	Mid Summer's Eve	SE 17 Moon Runes [0:58-2:42]	1:44
62	Durin's Day	SE 17 Moon Runes [2:42-end]	0:57	OST 15 Moon Runes [2:42-end]	0:37
63	The Defiler	SE 18 The Defiler	1:14
	DELETED SCENE	SE 19 The White Council [0:00-3:32]	3:32
64	Lady Galadriel	SE 19 The White Council [3:32-4:50]	1:18
65	A Watchful Peace	SE 19 The White Council [4:50-6:40]	1:50
66	Morgul Blade	SE 19 The White Council [7:03-end]	2:38
67	Gandalf and Galadriel	SE 20 Over Hill [0:00-2:16]	2:16	Unreleased Insert>	1:17
68	The Misty Mountains	SE 20 Over Hill [2:16-end]	1:28
69	Stone Giants	SE 21 A Thunder Battle [0:00-3:31]	3:31
70	Cave	Unreleased	0:25
71	The Mountain Pass	SE 21 A Thunder Battle [3:31-end] (0:21)	0:21
	DELETED SCENE	SE 32 The Edge Of The Wild	3:34
72	Bilbo Packs	Unreleased	0:35
73	Homesick	Unreleased	0:26
74	We Don't Belong Anywhere	Unreleased	0:49
75	Captured	Unreleased (0:20) / SE 22 Under Hill [0:36-1:06] (0:30)	0:50
76	Bilbo Vs Orc	Unreleased	0:44
77	Goblintown	SE 22 Under Hill [0:00-0:36] (0:36) / Unreleased (0:29)	1:05
78	Look Who It Is	Unreleased (0:40) / SE 22 Under Hill [1:06-end] (0:48)	1:28
79	Gollum	Unreleased	1:08
80	The Ring	Unreleased	0:36
81	Rock and Pool	Unreleased	0:20
82	Boat	Unreleased (0:08) / SE 23 Riddles In The Dark [1:18-1:43] (0:25)	0:33
83	Elfish Blade	Unreleased	0:28
84	Is It Juicy?	Unreleased	0:41
85	Roots As Nobody Sees	Unreleased	0:23
86	A Game Of Riddles	Unreleased	0:54
87	Baggins First	Unreleased	0:57
88	Teeth	Unreleased	0:57
89	All Things It Devours	SE 23 Riddles In The Dark [1:43-2:15]	0:32
90	Bagginses Is Stuck	Unreleased	0:21
91	Last Question, Last Chance	Unreleased	0:31
92	Three Guesses	Unreleased	0:19
93	Precious Is Lost	Unreleased (0:27) / SE 23 Riddles In The Dark [3:48-end] (1:33)	1:58
94	Torture Song	Unreleased	0:22
95	The Goblin Cleaver	Unreleased	0:23
96	Take Up Arms	Unreleased	1:10
97	It's Ours	SE 24 Brass Buttons [0:00-1:18]	1:18	Unreleased Insert>	0:07
98	Goblintown Escape	SE 24 Brass Buttons [1:18-3:26] (2:08) / Unreleased (0:30)	2:38
99	The Goblin King	Unreleased	0:15
100	Bridge Fall	SE 24 Brass Buttons [3:26-3:42]	0:16
101	Daylight	SE 24 Brass Buttons [3:42-4:24]	0:42
102	The Pity of Bilbo	SE 24 Brass Buttons [4:24-6:30]	2:06	Unreleased Insert>	0:47
103	Outside	Unreleased	0:25
104	Where's Bilbo	SE 24 Brass Buttons [6:30-end]	1:08	Unreleased	1:31
105	Home	Unreleased	0:57
106	Up Into The Trees	SE 25 Out Of The Frying-Pan [0:00-2:18] / Unreleased (0:08)	2:26
107	It Cannot Be	SE 25 Out Of The Frying-Pan [2:18-end]	3:36	Unreleased	4:53
108	Eagle Rescue	Unreleased	3:08
109	A Good Omen	SE 26 A Good Omen	5:46	Unreleased	4:48
110	End Credit Intro	Unreleased	0:39
111	Song Of The Lonely Mountain	OST 25 Song Of The Lonely Mountain	4:10
	End Credits 1	[TRACKED from cue 58 Leave The Talking To Me - SE 16 The Hidden Valley 1:36-2:31]
	End Credits 2	[TRACKED from cue 102 The Pity Of Bilbo - SE 24 Brass Buttons 4:40-7:26]
112	Dreaming Of Bag End	SE 28 Dreaming Of Bag End	1:57
	THEME PRESENTATION	SE 29 A Very Respectable Hobbit	1:21
	THEME PRESENTATION	SE 30 Erebor	1:19
	THEME PRESENTATION	SE 31 The Dwarf Lords	2:01

And now here's the most interesting part: What does this all mean? Here we go!

The SE OST CD runs 2:07:25, and there is an additional 2:11 of music on the Standard OST that isn't on the SE CD, for a total of 2:09:36 of released music.

The film runs 2:49:32, and there is 2:19:15 of music in it. However, 3:42 of that music is the tracked music that plays in the End Credits in between Song of the Lonely Mountain and Dreaming Of Bag End, so the real total is 2:15:33.

By my calculations, about 1:16:43 of music heard in the film can be found on the soundtrack CDs, while about 55:51 of it is completely unreleased! (Note: These figures don't exactly coalesce with the above numbers due to looping and tracking and microediting in the film and microediting on the OST. Its too hard to narrow some of the exact timings down because of this).

Conversely, only 1:16:43 of music heard on the soundtrack CDs can be heard in the film, while the remaining 52:53 of music on the CDs is not in the film at all!

So, the total amount of music we know about totals about 3:05:09!

So what makes up the 55:51 of unreleased music in the film? Well, the way I see it, it breaks down into 3 different types

(1) Whole cues that simply weren't included anywhere on the OST CDs at all. This totals about 24:02.
(2) Sections from cues that WERE on the OST, but were microedited out of the CDs. This totals about 7:13
(3) Revised film versions of / Inserts for cues that have earlier alternate versions on the OST. This totals about 22:30.


And what makes up the 52:53 of unused music from the CDs? Well, the way I see it, it breaks down into 5 different types

(1) Sections of cues snipped out or dialed out of the film versions of cues. This totals about 3:34.
(2) Music replaced by Inserts or Revised Cues. This totals about 27:41.
(3) Cues for deleted scenes that did not make the theatrical version of the film (But will hopefully be in the EE). This totals about 11:46.
(4) Theme presentations. This totals 4:41.
(5) Extra Neil Finn instrumental music. This totals 1:57.

(I know these figures are missing about about 6-7 minutes of music, I haven’t figured out yet what I missed)


Phew!

Note: All figures include the non-Shore diagetic music. This includes:Blunt The Knives (0:43 in film, 1:01 on CD)Misty Mountains (1:39 in film, 1:42 on CD)Rock and Pool [Gollum sings this] (0:20 in film, not on CD)Torture Song [The Goblin King sings this] (0:22 in film, not on CD)Song Of The Lonely Mountain (4:01 in film, 6:00 on CD)TOTAL: 7:05 in film, 8:43 on CDIf someone wants to re-post all my figures with the non-Shore stats removed, be my guest


I hope you enjoyed reading this so far, and I will post my breakdown of every film cue and every OST track as soon as I can.


~~~

TL;DR Summary:
There’s about 3 hours and 5 minutes of total music that we know about so far.
About 1 hour and 15 minutes of it is both on the CD and in the film.
About 55 minutes of it is in the film but not on CD,
And about 55 minutes of it is on CD but not in the film.

[Jay 46,244]

This post reserved for future expansion.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[KK 3,313]

Great work Jason!

10 - Then, you have all the music from LOTR for the finale, that was apparently re-recorded, so that doesn't really count into the tracked music, but still, we have: Master Peregrin's Plan, The Fellowship Reunited and the Nazgûl theme. I'm sure I forgot a few regarding those.

You're forgetting one of the biggest ones. "Theoden Rides Forth".

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: I'm convinced that the album version of My Dear Frodo was for a slightly different edit of that scene. What makes me think that is that not only the track is shorter than the sequence in the film (obviously), but also the fact there are apparently no edits in the track. And if you listen to the beginning, there's less than one minute between the Shire's theme statement (underscoring the title card) and the first statement of Erebor's theme, which leads me to believe that Old Bilbo didn't appear in this edit. I believe it probably went directly to the map after the title card, and then showed us Dale at 1:37, then the sequence was more or less the same as in the film.

I'm almost 100% certain of that.

The tracking of the Shire theme under the title card was so obvious that it was embarassing. Why didn't they just use the Shire theme statement in the original cue?

And I believe you're right. The music does go to the map music too soon, meaning we may have heard a brief voiceover by Bilbo before the Erebor prologue stuff. A shame "the Journey Back" was tracked over the map music.

[Damien F 2,079]

Exceptional work Jason. I've been looking forward to your analysis for weeks. Can't wait to read it.

I saw the film for a second time and my favourite unreleased moments are the company theme in Brass Buttons, the rather lovely rendition of the company theme backed by choir during Bilbo's speech after rejoining the dwarves in the forest and of course all the unreleased eagle music.

I also think the statement of Gandalf's theme (which has really grown on me and I look forward to future renditions) when he rescues the company from the trolls is different on the OST. I quite liked it in the movie which I think is played on strings but on the OST it is on woods.

I'm sure the complete recordings will be released it's just a question of when.

I agree fully with the above posts about the tracked music during the opening title card. It's obvious and jarring.

Keep up the good work Jason. I'm aleady anticipating your Star Trek: Edge of Darkness analysis ;-)

[Incanus 5,890]

Wonderful work Jason, as usual! I can't wait to read the whole thing!

I am also writing an analysis (mainly on the music as heard on the SE album) and it is indeed such a long score it takes quite a bit of time not only to fully articulate but to find out everything about it.

I'll obviously have to start typing faster to have something ready soon so I won't look like I am awfully late on this.

[wanner251 18]

A wizard is never late.....

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Barnald 437]

Also, the music accompanying Smaug's attack on Dale is about 10-20 seconds longer on the album. I can't remember the specifics right now but I recall this when comparing it against the film.

[KK 3,313]

LeBlanc, I think you forgot to mention something in your cue list: Smaug's attack is slightly different in the film. For example, Thorin's theme statement in action mode is replaced by some other music. You can hear it at 1:30 in the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlui8JG8NpA

The music for the very end of that sequence is also different.

I find it strange why thematic statements like that were taken out, leaving only the underscore. It doesn't take away anything from the film, so why remove Thorin's Theme? A similar situation occurs in the Gollum scene.

10 - Then, you have all the music from LOTR for the finale, that was apparently re-recorded, so that doesn't really count into the tracked music, but still, we have: Master Peregrin's Plan, The Fellowship Reunited and the Nazgûl theme. I'm sure I forgot a few regarding those.

You're forgetting one of the biggest ones. "Theoden Rides Forth"

You really have a problem with this one, don't you! I OK, I'll add it to my post.

Of course. Why would you leave out one of the film's biggest screw-ups?

The tracking of the Shire theme under the title card was so obvious that it was embarassing. Why didn't they just use the Shire theme statement in the original cue?

Are you sure it was tracked in the film, and not just a statement that sounded similar to previous ones?

I didn't mean tracked, but I meant it seemed edited into there, not naturally rewritten into the original prologue cue. You can hear a clear cut in the music when the theme appears.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

"Tacked on" would have been better.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

I have no interest in reading or replying in this thread, too many words...

Just kidding, great analysis!

Hey, I noticed that in Goblintown escape, the intro to the second part after the insert, is slightly longer than on the OST track.

[Jay 46,244]

Here is a list of all the scenes that had tracked music (as far I can remember). I thought that might help you for your analysis:

[snip]

This is very helpful, thank you so much!

2 - The Wargs attack cue (before the Warg-Scouts sequence)

I called that cue Gundabad Wargs and it is indeed a freaking awesome cue!

4 - Under Hill (the complete cue)

Under Hill isn't a cue, its an OST track that combined pieces from 3 different cues from one area of the movie.

The first cue I called Captured, and we're missing the opening 20 seconds of it, covering the company falling through the floor and into the.. basket thing. It is a pretty kick-ass intro! The rest of the cue is in the track from 0:36-1:06 (though the ending overlaps other music on CD) and starts with the orcs showing up to take them out of the basket thing.

The next music in the film is for when Bilbo fights to Orc by himself, which isn't on CD at all! It's good music too!

Then comes the music for the dwarves being taken to the Goblin King. We have the first half of the cue on the CD from 0:00-0:36, but the second half (starting with The Goblin King talking) is unreleased, and feature some really awesome preliminary mail choir chanting!

The next cue starts when teh Goblin King calls for the Torture devices to be brought forth, and his entire conversation with Thorin is unreleased. We have the end of the cue on CD, from 1:06-end (though it overlaps that other cue in the beginning) which has Azog's theme when Goblin King brings him up, ending with the music for the Scribe flying away.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: I'm convinced that the album version of My Dear Frodo was for a slightly different edit of that scene. What makes me think that is that not only the track is shorter than the sequence in the film (obviously), but also the fact there are apparently no edits in the track. And if you listen to the beginning, there's less than one minute between the Shire's theme statement (underscoring the title card) and the first statement of Erebor's theme, which leads me to believe that Old Bilbo didn't appear in this edit. I believe it probably went directly to the map after the title card, and then showed us Dale at 1:37, then the sequence was more or less the same as in the film.

I'm almost 100% certain of that.

I agree!

I also think the statement of Gandalf's theme (which has really grown on me and I look forward to future renditions) when he rescues the company from the trolls is different on the OST. I quite liked it in the movie which I think is played on strings but on the OST it is on woods.

Do you mean when Bilbo sees Gandalf sneaking around in the distance, or when Gandalf says "The dawn will take you all"? If its the latter, I just compared them again and they sound the same to me - and its on brass in both places. BUT! There is choir in the film version that isn't on the OST!

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Hey, I noticed that in Goblintown escape, the intro to the second part after the insert, is slightly longer than on the OST track.

[Jay 46,244]

LeBlanc, I think you forgot to mention something in your cue list: Smaug's attack is slightly different in the film. For example, Thorin's theme statement in action mode is replaced by some other music. You can hear it at 1:30 in the video below:

Well you're definitely right in the sense that what appears on the OST from 5:34-5:53 was not used in the movie. But I'm having a hard time telling if what replaced it is a true new Insert or just tracked and expertly edited music!

The music for the very end of that sequence is also different.

Hmmm, I dunno, I think its the OST music just artificially looped and extended?

OK, I've found something you missed (well, actually, that was a miscalculation): for the cue Dol Guldûr (cue number 51), in the column "Original Version", you wrote "SE 14 The Hill Of Sorcery [1:40-3:23]", then in the length column, you wrote "0:43" instead of "1:43"

Awesome, thanks for pointing that out! If anybody finds other stuff like that, please point it out too!

About that one, is the music for when the Ringwraith attacks Radgy tracked music, or is it a revised film version you forgot to mention?

Hard to know for sure, but it sounds like that 10 seconds of music is just kinda editorially created from existing stuff

Hey, I noticed that in Goblintown escape, the intro to the second part after the insert, is slightly longer than on the OST track.

Could be either microedits on the OST or looping in the film. This happened constantly throughout the entire movie, and its really hard to figure out all these tiny changes exactly.

[Damien F 2,079]

I also think the statement of Gandalf's theme (which has really grown on me and I look forward to future renditions) when he rescues the company from the trolls is different on the OST. I quite liked it in the movie which I think is played on strings but on the OST it is on woods.

Do you mean when Bilbo sees Gandalf sneaking around in the distance, or when Gandalf says "The dawn will take you all"? If its the latter, I just compared them again and they sound the same to me - and its on brass in both places. BUT! There is choir in the film version that isn't on the OST!

It is the former, when Bilbo sees Gandalf running about in the distance. I haven't seen the film or listened to the OST in a few days so I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think the film version has his theme played very quickly on strings at that exact moment. I don't recall hearing that on the OST.

[Nick1Ø66 8,330]

So Jason, are "Roast Mutton" "Moon Runes" and "Very Old Friends" the only tracks on the OST that contain music not included in the SE?

[Jay 46,244]

I also think the statement of Gandalf's theme (which has really grown on me and I look forward to future renditions) when he rescues the company from the trolls is different on the OST. I quite liked it in the movie which I think is played on strings but on the OST it is on woods.

Do you mean when Bilbo sees Gandalf sneaking around in the distance, or when Gandalf says "The dawn will take you all"? If its the latter, I just compared them again and they sound the same to me - and its on brass in both places. BUT! There is choir in the film version that isn't on the OST!

It is the former, when Bilbo sees Gandalf running about in the distance. I haven't seen the film or listened to the OST in a few days so I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think the film version has his theme played very quickly on strings at that exact moment. I don't recall hearing that on the OST.

It appears at 3:54 of Roast Mutton (Extended) and sounds the same as the film version to me.

It doesn't appear on the Standard OST version of Roast Mutton.

So Jason, are "Roast Mutton" "Moon Runes" and "Very Old Friends" the only tracks on the OST that contain music not included in the SE?

Yes, see here: https://docs.google....U1E&output=html

(And you mean "Old Friends" ; "Very Old Friends" is a CR track from FOTR)

[Damien F 2,079]

I also think the statement of Gandalf's theme (which has really grown on me and I look forward to future renditions) when he rescues the company from the trolls is different on the OST. I quite liked it in the movie which I think is played on strings but on the OST it is on woods.

Do you mean when Bilbo sees Gandalf sneaking around in the distance, or when Gandalf says "The dawn will take you all"? If its the latter, I just compared them again and they sound the same to me - and its on brass in both places. BUT! There is choir in the film version that isn't on the OST!

It is the former, when Bilbo sees Gandalf running about in the distance. I haven't seen the film or listened to the OST in a few days so I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think the film version has his theme played very quickly on strings at that exact moment. I don't recall hearing that on the OST.

It appears at 3:54 of Roast Mutton (Extended) and sounds the same as the film version to me.

It doesn't appear on the Standard OST version of Roast Mutton.

Thanks. I've just listened to that track again and you're right - that's the moment I was talking about. I usually only listen to the standard version of Roast Mutton due to the better rendition of the company theme so that's probably why I missed it.

[Nick1Ø66 8,330]

(And you mean "Old Friends" ; "Very Old Friends" is a CR track from FOTR)

And so I do.

Thanks!

[W. David Lichty 8]

This IS impressive. One thing puzzles me though...

71 The Mountain Pass SE 21 A Thunder Battle [3:31-end] (0:21) 0:21

DELETED SCENE SE 32 The Edge Of The Wild 3:34

72 Bilbo Packs Unreleased 0:35

73 Homesick Unreleased 0:26

74 We Don't Belong Anywhere Unreleased 0:49

75 Captured Unreleased (0:20) / SE 22 Under Hill [0:36-1:06] (0:30) 0:50

76 Bilbo Vs Orc Unreleased 0:44

77 Goblintown SE 22 Under Hill [0:00-0:36] (0:36) / Unreleased (0:29)

I understand how you determine deleted scenes in the middles of existing cues with extra music, but how did you figure this one out, that The Edge Of The Wild belongs where you have it?

- David

[Jay 46,244]

"The Edge of the Wild" appears to me to be the music for the scene where Gandalf investigates the Witch-King's burial place and discovers that his tomb has been burst open. We know this scene was filmed and was supposed to appear in the film after his conversation with Galadriel and before he shows up to save the company in Goblintown. It was seemingly cut at the last minute since footage from it still appeared in the final trailer.

I placed it after the Stone Giants sequence cause it seemed like that's where it would be shown. IE, we see Gandalf talking to Galadriel, then the "Over Hill" sequence with the dwarves crossing more and more landscapes culminating with the stone giants and surviving that and finding a cave. Then the Gandalf/ANgmar stuff, then back to the cave where Bilbo is packing up to leave.

Musically, I am sure this is the music for that scene because of the tone of the music and the appearance of the Witch-King's motif from ROTK.

So its nothing definitive, just my educated guess.

[W. David Lichty 8]

Sounds like the most educated of guesses, and so I shall rely upon it. Thanks for all the detail, and again, for the list. I just got my set today, and was surprised at how difficult it was to find any film sequence lists for this, even guesses. Then the mother load above. Your thoroughness is more than commendable.

By the way, do you read the blog of film professors Kristin Thompson and David Bordwell? They are as film professory as one would expect, and write for academics and film students, even on their blog, but in September Ms. Thompson wrote a piece that surprised me. She defended The Hobbit's being split into three films as something other than economic crassness or directorial excess. It turns out this film professor's film professor knows her Tolkein backwards and forwards, the books, the appendices, the films - all of it. She had done an analysis of the trailers, behind the scenes videos, any profiles or news stories, etc., matching information and images with the written Tolkein lore known to surround The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings as stories. It was her way of backing up her contention that the additions to the film were generally from Tolkein, and represented a treatment he had intended to give The Hobbit himself. I was surprised to find a Middle Earth/Jackson Film "apologist" coming from such a source.

I'm not doing her justice (it's late where I am), but my point is that your thoroughness here reminded me of hers, so in case you haven't seen these, you might enjoy the articles at the ends of these links (one from just last week):

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2012/09/20/a-hobbit-is-chubby-but-is-he-padded/

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2013/01/16/a-hobbit-is-chubby-but-is-he-off-balance/

I thank you again, and really appreciate your diligence, Jason!

- David

[Jay 46,244]

Thank you for your very kind words David, they are very much appreciated. I will be sure to check out those links as soon as I can!

[Barnald 437]

I've no real basis for this but I still think the first 1:07 of 'Edge of the Wild' is an alternative for the last part of 'Over Hill'; as in, it is intended to accompany Bilbo and the Dwarves on their journey from Rivendell. The music fits the scene very well in every respect. That Thorin says only two scenes before that they are about to step over the Edge of the Wild may support this idea. I also recall someone's observation that the early parts of 'Edge of the Wild' echo the brief piece of music heard at the end of 'The World is Ahead', which might suggest that Shore intended this theme to be related to the 'Misty Mountains' one.

I do not think however that the remainder of 'Edge of the Wild' (from 1:07) is intended to score the Stone Giants sequence. This part I think is intended to accompany Gandalf in the High Fells.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Jay 46,244]

I think you're right, Barnald! I will update the list accordingly when I am not on my phone.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Jay 46,244]

OK, two things: firstly, the two unreleased bits you mention at the beginning of Invitations Replies and No Admittance sound the same to me, and I believe that Very Old Friends was tracked in both scenes (it's too close to the original to be a re-recording, in my opinion). My guess is that in place of one of them (I suppose the one in No Admittance), there was supposed to be the bit from 1:30 to 1:42 in Old Friends (OST version) which, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't appear in the film.

And what is the unreleased insert you mention in Invitations Replies?

In the film, after the opening 7 seconds of "unreleased" music that I agree is just tracked from Very Old Friends from FOTR, Invitation replies begins when Bilbos face lights up when he realizes its his birthday. At this point 1:02-1:30 from the CD track plays. This is followed by 14 seconds of unreleased music. I decided that 1:30-1:51 of the CD track was the original ending of the cue and the unreleased music in the film was a revised Insert.

However! I certainly could be wrong! The next bit of music in the film sounds like tracked Very Old Friends music again until the reveal of the No Admittance sign, at which point the music on the CD from 1:51-2:51 plays.

It's possible that 1:30-1:51 is not the original ending of Invitation Replies that was replaced by a revised insert, its really the original opening of No Admittance that was replaced by Very Old Friends tracking. I'll have to sync it up with both parts of the film again to see which it might fit better.

And secondly, about that one:

UNKNOWN OST 02 Old Friends [1:51-2:32] 0:40

I believe it's an alternate for the moment when Bilbo talks about Gandalf's fireworks. Perhaps that discussion was originally slightly longer. At least, that's where the music would fit the best.

I agree with you and I made that realization as I was about to post my cue list, and didn't have time to update accordingly, I just wanted to get the post out there.

[KK 3,313]

I forgot to mention it, but allow me to say this is a great write-up Jason!

LeBlanc, I think you forgot to mention something in your cue list: Smaug's attack is slightly different in the film. For example, Thorin's theme statement in action mode is replaced by some other music. You can hear it at 1:30 in the video below:

Well you're definitely right in the sense that what appears on the OST from 5:34-5:53 was not used in the movie. But I'm having a hard time telling if what replaced it is a true new Insert or just tracked and expertly edited music!

The music for the very end of that sequence is also different.

Hmmm, I dunno, I think its the OST music just artificially looped and extended?

I don't think the end of My Dear Frodo was looped in the film. The very end of it (underscoring the last shot of Thorin forging a sword) doesn't sound like anything we hear in the track.

I think the part for Thorin running towards the door with the guards is probably an insert.

You're right. The end of the prologue in film is an expansion of the "Thorin's Pride/Downfall" motif. There was also an insert of some suspense music right before the Arkenstone was found.

17 Thorin SE 05 Axe or Sword? [0:00-0:29] / Unreleased (0:39) 1:08

A new recording of 2:21 - 2:49 from "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" was inserted after 0:29 of Axe or Sword.

[Incanus 5,890]

And secondly, about that one:

UNKNOWN OST 02 Old Friends [1:51-2:32] 0:40

I believe it's an alternate for the moment when Bilbo talks about Gandalf's fireworks. Perhaps that discussion was originally slightly longer. At least, that's where the music would fit the best.

I concur. I immediately connected the musical moment with Bilbo's line "He wouldn't miss a chance to light up his whizzpoppers. He'll give us quite a show."

And you people are doing such a great job in this thread. Keep up the fantastic job.

[Jilal 681]

Remember that the Englishman said it was a shame the music started playing before Gandalf stepped into the light, and that Shore probably scored it that way, but Jackson then put the music earlier? Well, apparently, Shore didn't even wrote music for that scene: it's the beginning of Radagast The Brown (without the choir) that has been tracked here. See the video below (at 0:48). I'm pretty sure of that:

In the video interview with Howard Shore, the orchestra is playing "Radagast the Brown". But the version there is slightly different, leading me to believe that the music heard when Gandalf is revealed in Goblin town, actually belongs there, and that Shore later decided to have it at the beginning of "Radagast the Brown".

They start playing at 2:48:

[Barnald 437]

'My Dear Frodo' went off on a different path there at the end also. Perhaps an alternate for Bilbo looking for his red book?

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Perhaps in Brass Buttons it was a film edit, and shore liked it for the OST?

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[gkgyver 1,647]

I lined up The World Is Ahead with the movie and the big Company theme statement begins right when they cut to Bilbo sneezing. So, it is as I suspected, that the allergy scene was added late in the game. One of those things that could have been saved for the EE and would have given Shore the opportunity to rescore it properly.

And, just for the record, despite the hacking of the score, that moment gives me goosebumps.

[crumbs 16,007]

From my first viewing, I knew that allergy scene was definitely an EE addition thrown into the TC purely to lengthen the runtime.

Like countless other scenes in the film.

[gkgyver 1,647]

They wanted to squeeze Bilbo's handkerchief in. These are the things and nods that were sacrificed in LotR in favour of the film experience.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Jay 46,244]

I think you're wrong now, and were right the first time. I'm sure PJ didn't think anywould would notice a difference in clothes / nighttime/daytime and arranged the scenes the way he wanted them, the SE OST placement is accurate to the (EE) film

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Sooo, sorta like this? (though probably seperated.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU18yxZ5-KQ

[Jay 46,244]

So, what? You believe it goes like this: arrival in Rivendell (sunset), dinner scene (sunset/Elrond with beige outfit), moon runes scene (night/Elrond with beige outfit), Narsil scene (sunset, so it's the next day/Elrond with beige outfit), the White Council scene (night/Elrond with blue outfit)?

Nah, that doesn't sound right... Elrond wouldn't change his clothes from one day to another? And why would Bilbo be visiting Rivendell the next day? It should be the day he arrives there.

I'm telling you PJ just expects people won't notice the clothes change. Or he'll CGI the clothes between now and October (or Noevember, whenever the EE is coming out)

I guess we'll find out then!

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Jay 46,244]

Excellent notes, Bloodboal! I just put your edit on my ipod and will check all this out poste-haste. Thank you very much for these notes... I will be updating the main post soon!