La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[Brónach 1,330]

Do the liner notes say anything in special about the prologue?

[Jay 46,241]

I'm pretty sure that they did everything they could to make it sound as best as it can.

I'm sure too

[Trent B 354]

I thought MV said in the radio show that they went to Spielberg, Williams and even Shawn Murphy to see if they had the elements they were looking for and they did not. So hence why for the unreleased "Ultimate War" parts they had to resort to the music only portion from the film stems.

[Jay 46,241]

Hey only the second half of the Ultimate War (well, and maybe the End Credits, and maybe the revised ending of Flight To Neverland) are from the film stems.... the rest are from the real recording sessions and sound utterly glorious!

"The Death of Rufio" is from the sessions, though, isn't it? So the previously unreleased section of Part I and all of Part III are from the film stems--if I understand correctly?

No, the entire second half of the Ultimate War is clearly from the film stems. You can tell easily when listening.

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

I thought they said there were some elements that they could use also?

[Jay 46,241]

I've been thinking this. I thought we simply would get the trailer music at the beginning at the correct speed. But it might be that the altered version is that way on purpose and that's why we get it there and the unaltered as an alternate?

No. Both version of the trailer music were clearly recorded at the fast speed, and it was an error that the final version was presented too slow on the OST (They incorrectly transferred it from the 48khz recording to the 44.1khz master). They definitely did not record it at two different speeds.

Do the liner notes say anything in special about the prologue?

Williams introduced two important Hook themes a full year before the picture’s release when the film’s teaser trailer debuted in theaters. The first is in the minor mode and suggests swashbuckling pirates, while the second is in a major key and reflects the optimism of eternal youth in Neverland. Apart from a few sound effects, Hook’s teaser is entirely music-driven. Called “Prologue” on the original Epic Soundtrax Hook album, this presentation plays at a slightly slower speed (and lower pitch) than the music heard in the actual teaser.

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

They definitely did not record it at two different speeds.

I think he was asking if it was a creative decision on JW part.

[jwb 0]

The beginning of Farewell Neverland has a fade into music from No More Hook that is iffy too. Sounds like stuff is missing there and they added the fade to help it.

Sorry I couldn't post more last night. I didn't even get to listen to it all yesterday. The wife was bugging me!!!

The Ultimate War stuff is definitely what I was missing the most and most excited about listening to when I got the CD. Its a shame it doesn't sound perfect or close to perfect. I would say "very good" instead. I mean, compared to what we've had! I have to say, I am not a fan of how they've been split up. I usually listen to my music on my computer or on a mobile device, and the cuts to each track don't play so nice. When I can I will be editing the three together.

I've found more appreciation for the other smaller pieces, like The Bedroom. Love this piece so much. The slow build up and wonder of it.

I would say my top 5 favorite pieces of the "new stuff" are (in no order):

1. The Bedroom

2. Pirates!

3. Hook Challenges Peter

4. The Ultimate War (all 3 as one)

5. Follow That Shadow

[publicist 4,650]

Yeah, for the upcoming DRACULA release he requested the sound of Monty Python's mouse organ to go over the main titles.

[Jay 46,241]

They definitely did not record it at two different speeds.

I think he was asking if it was a creative decision on JW part.

I suppose it's possible, but I can't see any reason why he would request it, especially when the final result is out of perfect pitch. And the fact that its the exact same percentage difference off you get when incorrectly converting from 48khz to 44.1khz seals it for me

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

It could be both of course, they did it incorrectly, williams/the producer liked it, so instead of correcting it he left it that way?

[Jay 46,241]

I have no idea

[publicist 4,650]

With audio software of your choice you can correct it, though.

[Jay 46,241]

Yup it's easy to fix. I definitely prefer the faster version as well, even besides the fact that it's the intended version I just think the music fits a faster tempo. It's just a brilliant introduction to the score!

[jwb 0]

Definitely listen to this on a nice sound system too guys if you can. I have Bose speakers and sub and also Bose headphones.

[filmmusic 3,269]

So, we were arguing before the release if the hook score would be 2 or 3 cds.

now, if it was a TRULLY complete score with all the alternates and soucre music etc, wouldn't it require 3 cds?

Just was wondering..

[Brónach 1,330]

Ok so there's two prologues. I thought there was one and the wrong speed version of it. Thanks.

[Jay 46,241]

Ok so there's two prologues. I thought there was one and the wrong speed version of it. Thanks.

You can hear a 30 second sample of the alternate one right here!

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=2614

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Using the Blu-ray Rear channels I was able to make a clean version of the film version (with inserts) of The Ultimate War in spectacular audio quality! so with the LLL release, any bits from the concorde, and the Blu-ray, we now pretty much have the complete score with no SFX in modern audio quality!

[Jay 46,241]

Using the Blu-ray Rear channels I was able to make a clean version of the film version (with inserts) of The Ultimate War in spectacular audio quality! so with the LLL release, any bits from the concorde, and the Blu-ray, we now pretty much have the complete score with no SFX in modern audio quality!

No true. There is a bunch of stuff we still don't have clean:

-the play music from the beginning

-God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

-Lost Boys Ballet drum insert

-Pick Em Up

-Take Me Out To The Ballgame

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Well I am sure some of those can also be ripped from the rear channels of the blu-ray, the awful tin can'ness can be greatly improved just by adding bass.

[Jay 46,241]

All of those have sound effects over them in all channels

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

Even the foreign language tracks?

[Jay 46,241]

The only difference in a foreign language track would be the removal of echoed english dialogue, not a removal of sound effects

[Incanus 5,890]

To tell you the truth I never even noticed God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen in the film until it was brought up here recently. I do not exactly have a burning desire to have it or Take Me Out to the Ball Game.

[publicist 4,650]

What? You are not excited for jurassic traditionals breaking up the flow of your score albums?

[Jay 46,241]

To tell you the truth I never even noticed God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen in the film until it was brought up here recently. I do not exactly have a burning desire to have it or Take Me Out to the Ball Game.

I LOVE the organ performance of Take Me Out To The Ballgame recorded for the movie!!

[Incanus 5,890]

To tell you the truth I never even noticed God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen in the film until it was brought up here recently. I do not exactly have a burning desire to have it or Take Me Out to the Ball Game.

I LOVE the organ performance of Take Me Out To The Ballgame recorded for the movie!!

Would you still take it over any unreleased score cue if you had the chance?

[Demondm810 473]

I can't believe we literally have an almost complete Hook, and people are bitching. It's almost unbelievable to me. Seriously, if only film stems are available, what can LLL do about it? Christ. And they are not terribly noticeable on high-end speakers. If you only listern on headphones, well..

BE POSITIVE!!

[jwb 0]

Using the Blu-ray Rear channels I was able to make a clean version of the film version (with inserts) of The Ultimate War in spectacular audio quality! so with the LLL release, any bits from the concorde, and the Blu-ray, we now pretty much have the complete score with no SFX in modern audio quality!

No true. There is a bunch of stuff we still don't have clean:

-the play music from the beginning

-God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

-Lost Boys Ballet drum insert

-Pick Em Up

-Take Me Out To The Ballgame

If I could only pick one of those to include it would be Take Me Out to the Ballgame.

[Jay 46,241]

I would love to have them all

[Incanus 5,890]

I would love to have them all

I am sure everybody here would love to have everything from Hook if it was possible.

[publicist 4,650]

I can't believe we literally have an almost complete Hook, and people are bitching. It's almost unbelievable to me. Seriously, if only film stems are available, what can LLL do about it?

And i can't believe grown men cannot grasp that a well-reasoned disappointment over lost master tapes for the most important set piece is not a court-martial for the label releasing film stems. It just sucks, however you look at it. Period.

[Brónach 1,330]

Of course. We aren't bitching about releases and the labels. We are bitching about film and music conservation. LLL is complaining too. After all they're just like us, but with a label.

Chaac, Captain Obvious!

[Crimson Nagus 55]

So, if one wants to put the tracks in chronological order (or as close to as possible) without doing any editing, which tracks need to be moved around and to where?

[Jay 46,241]

If you don't want to do any in-track editing, all you gotta do is swap Wendy Tells Peter The Truth with A Portrait Of Wendy, move Hook's Blues to before Smee's Plan, and move When You're Alone to after The Never-Feast.

[Brónach 1,330]

What about "Exit Music"?

[Jay 46,241]

What about it?

[Incanus 5,890]

What about "Exit Music"?

It should go after End Credits. It was originally the final part of the End Credits until it got replaced by material edited from other parts of the score.

[Brónach 1,330]

Aaah ok. I had imagined it would got before or after the credits.

[Jay 46,241]

William's original intended end credit arrangement is:

 

"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (with a separetely recorded segment to end the cue early) -> "Exit Music"

 

In the final film, they replaced his intentions with:

 

"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (microedited and with the pick-up ending) -> segment tracked from "The Arrival Of Tink" -> segment tracked from "Farewell Neverland"

 

Since the question was about re-arranging without doing in-track editing, there was no reason for me to mention Exit Music. The listener can place it wherever he desires

[Incanus 5,890]

William's original intended end credit arrangement is:

"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (with a separetely recorded segment to end the cue early) -> "Exit Music"

In the final film, they replaced his intentions with:

"End Credit" -> Lost Boys Ballet (microedited and with the pick-up ending) -> segment tracked from "The Arrival Of Tink" -> segment tracked from "Farewell Neverland"

Since the question was about re-arranging without doing in-track editing, there was no reason for me to mention Exit Music. The listener can place it wherever he desires

True. In my opinion the LLL set has the Exit Music well placed to close the entire experience at the end of disc 2.

[Jay 46,241]

Yea, if they weren't going to duplicate Williams intentions and drop the film's hack job end credits entirely, ending the entire set with it is absolutely perfect!

They picked a glorious take of the piece as well, even better than the take used on the old boots

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I disagree with the term 'hack job', it's actually a fairly well-assembled suite. Now, Star Trek: Nemesis, THAT's a hack job.

Ok, question regarding what you said earlier - in the LLL take of 'Wendy Tells Peter The Truth', there's a cough that the film take doesn't have. Was that take unavailable, or what?

[Brónach 1,330]

Thanks Jason. I might bore you with such questions in two weeks but you must be happy that this music that you obviously like so much has been released like this so we can bore you with questions

[Jay 46,241]

I disagree with the term 'hack job', it's actually a fairly well-assembled suite. Now, Star Trek: Nemesis, THAT's a hack job.

True, it is a rather nice assembly. I shouldn't have said hack-job, I mean for all we know Williams oversaw and approved it! I just meant that it was editorially created by using existing music, rather than recording something new.

Ok, question regarding what you said earlier - in the LLL take of 'Wendy Tells Peter The Truth', there's a cough that the film take doesn't have. Was that take unavailable, or what?

Beats me

[Brónach 1,330]

So the End Credits track in the LLL CD follows the film? Seems easily fixable. The LLL track might make a nice "edited suite" at the end of my secondary playlist.

Damn, I promised myself not to think on this until I had it. Ah, the wait...

[Jay 46,241]

Thanks Jason. I might bore you with such questions in two weeks but you must be happy that this music that you obviously like so much has been released like this so we can bore you with questions

I don't mind answering questions about my favorite score

[Rachael Foley 10,162]

here is the edit of Ultimate War Part 1 I was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIqMemIB2Qc

[Maurizio 6,913]

Damn, I promised myself not to think on this until I had it. Ah, the wait...

The wait is already killing me...