.

[hornist 1,261]

So basically musicians do not know anything about film scoring?

I would imagine the vast majority of them do not. It's most likely a fact.

To be fair to Hornist, I didn't want to throw him in with such a sweeping and frankly brutal generalisation of all musicians, but yeah, your way of putting it is much better.

I think you are both right. My message was more like if you are a musician it is possible to understand(and even like) film scoring/music.

They are not necessarily all elitist a-holes to be ignored by Quint who btw delicately avoided his true opinion.

[Quintus 6,494]

I don't think elitism is the issue at all, actually. More a musician's natural bias towards sophisticated music theory - which I absolutely do believe can cloud judgement as to what great score is or can be.

I was thinking on Metal Hurlant, that started in 1974 and continued into the eighties. And yes I was talking about Alien which I know when it was released. Alien is like something by the Humanoïdes.

In Spain they published Totem with a lot of that kind of work from 1977 into the eighties.

I could just have said the seventies as well.

Semantics. Your earlier description still provided a spot-on summary of Aliens own style, which is definitely a way which I like to think of the movie. It's rather amusing that you contributed indirectly, though.

[A24 5,155]

I was thinking on Metal Hurlant

Which I brought up, yes. It's one of the film's best attributes. It can't be dated to the '80s since the style (not that everything in Alien is Metal Hurlant) existed before and after that.

[Quintus 6,494]

The original Terminator is more in line with that thinking than the original Alien movie, I'd argue.

[A24 5,155]

The Terminator sure looks and feels '80s but doesn't yet reek of the Reagan era machismo.

[Brónach 1,330]

My point is simply that things are "trapped in a look" when you don't like it.

I can't distinguish that Reagan era thing very well.

[Quintus 6,494]

The Terminator sure looks and feels '80s but doesn't yet reek of the Reagan era machismo.

Yeah, true. But the comics, the aesthetic. They're a match.

Then again, I don't associate the dumb cocksure marines of Aliens with the 80s macho phase AT ALL. They all die, after all. Like they did in 'Nam.

Nah, Aliens wasn't 80s macho; I think that would be the view of someone who doesn't get it. The narrative of Aliens has a lot in common with its later homage, Starship Troopers.

Now, if we're talking Arnie and Stallone 80s macho, well then that's another kettle of fish. Macho movies where the big man got to kill illegal aliens and get the girl.

[Brónach 1,330]

In Aliens it's the female civilian that rules. It's... well, it's a James Cameron film.

[A24 5,155]

My point is simply that things are "trapped in a look" when you don't like it.

I suppose that's true, but my point is quite different. I don't hate the look of the '80s (Blade Runner is one of my favorite films!) or any certain style or era, as long as the style elevates the film to a much higher level. Films like Alien, 2001: A Space Odyssey or Blade Runner are visual masterpieces. They have in common that they are made from a very artistic point of view. Through style, the viewer is invited to look at them differently. On the other hand, visually, Aliens does very little more than most other movies from that time. That's what makes this movie boring for me nowadays. I already know the story and the characters and there doesn't seem be anything beyond that. I have the same 'problem' with Verhoeven's science fiction movies. I liked them at the time but they don't offer me anything today.

Nah, Aliens wasn't 80s macho;

Sorry, but it is very well known for that. Just saying "nah" doesn't do that away. Denying the typical machochism in Aliens is quite strange. I know discussing this is almost impossible. I know you adore Aliens and Cameron. You will say 'no' to everything I say.

[Brónach 1,330]

Aliens is writen in that way consciously and then subverts it. The marines end up being useless, Hudson cries around, and Ripley is the ultimate badass. The final confrontantion is a confrontation of mothers.

As for the "nah", you do it yourself. Only you say "meh".

And why does Blade Runner look eighties? It looks to me like The Long Tomorrow.

Another thing I find funny is how you say you already know the story and the characters, but you never know "already" the visuals of these films.

[Quintus 6,494]

Jeez, Mr Literal Thinker strikes again. Aliens is macho on the face of it. It's designed to be. The commentary beneath the surface is very different. Do you know what irony even is?

Just stick to your pretty pictures, blinkered obtuse man. Again, you demonstrate you know bugger all about movies beyond what they look like.

Did you spot the very obvious subtext in this post? I hope you did because maybe you won't waste your time replying to it. But knowing you, I won't hold my breath.

[A24 5,155]

And why does Blade Runner look eighties?

Because throughout the '80s a lot of elements were copied from the movie. It is responsible for how a lot of films and music videos looked like in the '80s.

[Krang 1]

I like the directors cut of Aliens more than the regular and directors cut of Alien. But both films are great and truly compliment each other. The first Alien film is the perfect representation of big things having small beginnings. It's very intimate and plays well off the horror of the Alien. The second film takes it all to the next logical step but exceeds expectations with character development and special effects. Not to mention a satisfying conclusion.

Alien 3 however....

[Brónach 1,330]

And why does Blade Runner look eighties?

Because throughout the '80s a lot of elements were copied from the movie. It is responsible for how a lot of films and music videos looked like in the '80s.

But the look is based on preexisting stuff. The look predates the film and can't be called "eighties".

[A24 5,155]

And why does Blade Runner look eighties?

Because throughout the '80s a lot of elements were copied from the movie. It is responsible for how a lot of films and music videos looked like in the '80s.

But the look is based on preexisting stuff. The look predates the film and can't be called "eighties".

The cocktail, however, was new and since it helped shape the '80s ...

Another thing I find funny is how you say you already know the story and the characters, but you never know "already" the visuals of these films.

Of course! When done right, visuals tell a different story every time. Like music, it's more abstract and way less literal as story or characters.

[Brónach 1,330]

When done right? Visuals are always the same in a film to me. Once I've seen them, I can't unsee them. Do I have to interpret that literally?

[A24 5,155]

Sadly enough, that is true for most movies. That's why I treasure movies that visually suggest and evoke new things each time I see them.

[Brónach 1,330]

Come to think of it I don't think I actually care about films suggesting me new things every time. It can always be the same (because it is) and I still can enjoy it if I like it.

And of course I need the whole package. I can't only consider a side of the filmmaking. For me, everything needs to be perfect. That's why when Thor says the story doesn't matter in Alien I'm completely baffled, for example. If I didn't like the story I wouldn't like it.

[A24 5,155]

Come to think of it I don't think I actually care about films suggesting me new things every time.

Well, how can you value it if you never experienced it?

And of course I need the whole package. I can't only consider a side of the filmmaking. For me, everything needs to be perfect. That's why when Thor says the story doesn't matter in Alien I'm completely baffled, for example. If I didn't like the story I wouldn't like it.

That's a different topic. The stories and characters of both films are fine, but since I'm so familiar with them, I'm trying to look beyond that.

[shockwave 8]

Gotta go with Alien, it was my first R rated movie I saw. Love the music, the look and the big chap.

[A24 5,155]

Gotta go with Alien, it was my first R rated movie I saw.

Me too! An amazing frightening experience because I didn't know it was a sci-fi horror flick.

[Brónach 1,330]

Come to think of it I don't think I actually care about films suggesting me new things every time.

Well, how can you value it if you never experienced it?

What I mean is that I never looked for it.

If something has several interpretations I get more or less it all seeing it once or twice, or simply thinking about it. Plus I have good visual memory so I remember what a film was like.

[chuck 155]

Gotta go with Alien, it was my first R rated movie I saw.

Me too! An amazing frightening experience because I didn't know it was a sci-fi horror flick.

You might be thinking it's a light - hearted family adventure with flying bicycles, huh?

[A24 5,155]

If something has several interpretations I get more or less it all seeing it once or twice, or simply thinking about it. Plus I have good visual memory so I remember what a film was like.

It doesn't really work that way, Chaac. Watching movies, evaluating art in general, is a dynamic process. New personal richness and different stages in life can lead to different views, insights and outlook. You're a young guy, right?

Gotta go with Alien, it was my first R rated movie I saw.

Me too! An amazing frightening experience because I didn't know it was a sci-fi horror flick.

You might be thinking it's a light - hearted family adventure with flying bicycles, huh?

To tell you the truth, I was expecting James Bond in space . Heck, I don't even remember why but you have to remember that there was no virtually no information at that time. It was the dark ages. I loved Star Wars and I was very much into science fiction so I had to see Alien, even though I was too young.

[Brónach 1,330]

If something has several interpretations I get more or less it all seeing it once or twice, or simply thinking about it. Plus I have good visual memory so I remember what a film was like.

It doesn't really work that way, Chaac. Watching movies, evaluating art in general, is a dynamic process. New personal richness and different stages in life can lead to different views, insights and outlook. You're a young guy, right?

Yes, but I know that, I've experienced it. A lot.

As for art my opinions usually tend to change for the worse.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Wait, you don't like movies that give you something more each time you watch them?

[nightscape94 968]

Sorry, absolutely no contest on this one. Alien is a masterpiece, Aliens is a great action movie.

[A24 5,155]

Wait, you don't like movies that give you something more each time you watch them?

I think he cornered himself, which is bound to happen when you always saying the exact opposite.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Aliens is writen in that way consciously and then subverts it. The marines end up being useless, Hudson cries around, and Ripley is the ultimate badass. The final confrontantion is a confrontation of mothers.

Are you serious, what a stupid comment, really stupid.

The final confrontation between the mothers doesn't happen if the marines are useless.

[Xander Harris 9,673]

Have you all been through the Alien scene on The Great Movie Ride at Disney World? It's one of the coolest things to experience on this planet.

[Brónach 1,330]

Wait, you don't like movies that give you something more each time you watch them?

I didn't say that. I said it doesn't usually happen to me.

Aliens is writen in that way consciously and then subverts it. The marines end up being useless, Hudson cries around, and Ripley is the ultimate badass. The final confrontantion is a confrontation of mothers.

Are you serious, what a stupid comment, really stupid.

The final confrontation between the mothers doesn't happen if the marines are useless.

They were wiped out by the aliens. We can safely say it didn't work out well. Pirric victory.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Wait, you don't like movies that give you something more each time you watch them?

I didn't say that. I said it doesn't usually happen to me.

The getting more part? You don't find more to appreciate, more subtle details and nuances you didn't pick up before, or anything like that, with your favorite films?

[Quintus 6,494]

Holy crap how did I miss this? That just blew my socks off, I've never seen footage of anything like this. And a seriously good performance, too; not LSO standards but damn, they nailed it.

Horner is the laziest bastard in scoring, but the guy is just ridiculously talented and an absolute master of action music. 4:48 - the way he signs off the cue with impending doom, the piano signalling the "futile" attempts at escape, death closing in. It's terrifying stuff and absolutely marvellous film score.

[crocodile 9,724]

You should have listened to it live, Quint. It makes quite an impression. This and Bishop's Countdown. The performance I heard was even better than this one.

Karol

[Incanus 5,890]

Well I wish there were concerts around here to perform this stuff. Exhilarating and I always love to see the orchestra at work as you can really see and hear in the live performance more clearly all the layers that make into creating these pieces of music.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Wait, you don't like movies that give you something more each time you watch them?

I didn't say that. I said it doesn't usually happen to me.

Aliens is writen in that way consciously and then subverts it. The marines end up being useless, Hudson cries around, and Ripley is the ultimate badass. The final confrontantion is a confrontation of mothers.

Are you serious, what a stupid comment, really stupid.

The final confrontation between the mothers doesn't happen if the marines are useless.

They were wiped out by the aliens. We can safely say it didn't work out well. Pirric victory.

yes they were all killed except for one, but without them Ripley dies early on...so does poor newt.

[MrJosh 1,205]

It's really hard for me (that's what she said...) because I love them both in different ways. I chose Aliens just because to me it's got an awesome "popcorn movie" excitement going for it, just a super FUN movie. Alien, though is more "perfect" a film. And of course yeah, the design is amazing on Alien. "A perfect organism," Ash would call it.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Brónach 1,330]

I read how that film started and I thought it wasn't worth seeing it.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[A24 5,155]

i agree, Alien3

Just finished watching Alien³. After the thriller film, after the action film, this one is the pseudo socio-religious film.

It was worse than I remembered. And I watched the Special Edition, which is supposed to be better!

Really an awful film. It feels cheap. Really, really cheap. Almost feels like a TV film, actually. Most of the FX are awful (although there is one shot where the xenomoph never looked better: the one where it's close to Ripley's face. Amazing animatronic here.).

Same for the characters: I didn't care about any of them, there are all so cliché it's not even funny. Most are nameless cardboards that are just here to die. And the others who actually have names and are developped are just plain boring.

Every attack of the xenomorph feels lame. There is no tension, no thrills, nothing. You can feel here that the series had run its course at this point.

I was also tired of all those low angles shots. Seriously, there are so many, it made me sick.

Well, I agree with everything you wrote here. Although, I'm not sure whether the characters are that cliché. I certainly don't like how they are presented, that's for sure. There is something overly serious, swollen, almost bombastic about them.

[Quintus 6,494]

I haven't seen it in years. Not a good movie, but I do remember thinking the sequence where they are working together to lure and trap the alien was pretty tense and genuinely well done. But the cgi was shit even back then.

[KK 3,313]

I read how that film started and I thought it wasn't worth seeing it.

Likewise. I didn't bother with this film.

[A24 5,155]

The early CGI is shockingly terrible. Couldn't believe it was that bad. Much worse than I remembered it. It's the film's deathblow.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I love Alien3 - though maybe it's because I'm the only one on the planet (aside from Fincher, maybe) who doesn't care about how the first five minutes craps on Aliens' ending.

[A24 5,155]

Even Fincher doesn't care about Alien3.

[Quintus 6,494]

Nobody cares about it.

*weeps a single tear, runs down cheek*

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Even Fincher doesn't care about Alien3.

Never said he did.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Yeah he disowns it. They offered him to make his own cut for the new anthology but he refused.

[A24 5,155]

Nobody cares about it.

I amazes me to this very day that Fincher was able to recover from Alien3. That there was actually some money dude who said to him, "Don't worry, Finch, here's the money. Now go and make your next movie! "

With Se7en, Fincher bounced back with a triumph.

Alex