Michael Bay Apologizes for Armageddon

[Koray Savas 2,260]

This isn't a conversation about subjective reaction to a movie. Koray applied the word 'quintessential' to The Rock, which I dispute. Since then he has elaborated a little and it has become apparent that he was referring to nineties action cinema and not all of cinema through the decades - as he originally implied, which while being somewhat less fawning and contentious, I still believe to be wrong. What does quintessential actually mean? That is my point here. QuintESSENTIAL. What exactly is essential about The Rock? It's just another genre piece which shares its style with a number of brethren movies produced under the same banner. It's not unique, it doesn't stand out.

To suggest it is quintessential is to rank it alongside the greats of the genre - which whilst being a nonsense, is also a disservice. Collectively influential and quintessential are not the same thing. The Rock is not essential action cinema in the way that a movie such as Die Hard is. How insulting and distasteful it would be to suggest otherwise.

That is the only point I'm making. Basically the same problem Joey has with people throwing "GREAT" around like it's going out of fashion.

I'm not drawing a direct correlation to quality, even thought that is a part of it. In my opinion, it's a great movie, but besides that, if you want to discuss 90s action moviemaking, The Rock is an essential component of that conversation. He took what he started with Bad Boys and escalated and shaped it into bombastic directing. It was extremely influential not just in terms of direction, but in scoring and pacing and editing and the whole overdramatic militaristic vibe it exudes. It's an iconic blockbuster.

[Quintus 6,494]

This isn't a conversation about subjective reaction to a movie. Koray applied the word 'quintessential' to The Rock, which I dispute. Since then he has elaborated a little and it has become apparent that he was referring to nineties action cinema and not all of cinema through the decades - as he originally implied, which while being somewhat less fawning and contentious, I still believe to be wrong. What does quintessential actually mean? That is my point here. QuintESSENTIAL. What exactly is essential about The Rock? It's just another genre piece which shares its style with a number of brethren movies produced under the same banner. It's not unique, it doesn't stand out.

To suggest it is quintessential is to rank it alongside the greats of the genre - which whilst being a nonsense, is also a disservice. Collectively influential and quintessential are not the same thing. The Rock is not essential action cinema in the way that a movie such as Die Hard is. How insulting and distasteful it would be to suggest otherwise.

That is the only point I'm making. Basically the same problem Joey has with people throwing "GREAT" around like it's going out of fashion.

I'm not drawing a direct correlation to quality, even thought that is a part of it. In my opinion, it's a great movie, but besides that, if you want to discuss 90s action moviemaking, The Rock is an essential component of that conversation. He took what he started with Bad Boys and escalated and shaped it into bombastic directing. It was extremely influential not just in terms of direction, but in scoring and pacing and editing and the whole overdramatic militaristic vibe it exudes.

Yes, this is more reasonable language.

It's an iconic blockbuster.

No.

[Brónach 1,330]

I should ask people of my demographic if they actually have seen The Rock and remember it as iconic.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Weren't you like 3 when it came out?

[Brónach 1,330]

Four. What were you, ten?

[Koray Savas 2,260]

6

I still saw it when it came out though, and an infinite amount of times on VHS. Wasn't sure if your friends fell into the same situation. According to Box Office Mojo it was the 4th highest grossing film of 1996. Twister was 2nd.

[Brónach 1,330]

I remember seeing these kind of movies on TV.

[Naïve Old Fart 13,021]

Personally, I avoid all Michael Bay films on principle.

[Jay 46,242]

My 10 favorite action films of the 90s (in alpha order)

Air Force One

Bad Boys

Cliffhanger

Die Hard 3

Independence Day

The Rock

Speed

Terminator 2

Total Recall

True Lies

[Quintus 6,494]

I really like eight of those. The only two I have no time for are the Michael Bay ones.

[Jay 46,242]

I doubt I could even come up with 10 action films of the 2000s that I really like

[publicist 4,650]

My 10 favorite action films of the 90s (in alpha order)

Air Force One

Bad Boys

Cliffhanger

Die Hard 3

Independence Day

The Rock

Speed

Terminator 2

Total Recall

True Lies

I was 16 when TRUE LIES came out. I saw it 6 times in a row and only laughed at people who told me how great CITIZEN KANE was. I think i stand by my opinion...

[Brónach 1,330]

I've seen True Lies twice. Last time I found it boring through most of the film.

[publicist 4,650]

I never would make the mistake and watch it today!

It's like watching an episode of FALL GUY. Why destroy the sweet memories?

[Pieter Boelen 1,032]

My 10 favorite action films of the 90s (in alpha order)

Air Force One

Bad Boys

Cliffhanger

Die Hard 3

Independence Day

The Rock

Speed

Terminator 2

Total Recall

True Lies

Someone actually LIKING Air Force One? I'm impressed I'm NOT the only one. That movie is HILARIOUS!

Never watched the first Speed. Have the second one though. Cruiseship, eh? That has to be one of the most unintentionally hilarious action films of all time!

That one together with Poseidon are just so bad on how ships work I still cannot fathom it.

[Jay 46,242]

Speed is awesome!

Speed 2 is not. FANTASTIC score, though!

[publicist 4,650]

AFO had me and my pals saluting Harrison Ford in the cinema. Alas, i was the only one who knew which cool old bastard REALLY owned this movie.

[Jay 46,242]

You know what? I think I only put AFO on the list because I love the score so much. I don't think I've actually since the movie since 1998 or so.

All the others I have watched as an adult and they hold up.

Well, except for True Lies since I refuse to watch it again until a high def, or at least anamorphic widescreen, version becomes available. I can't BELIEVE one wasn't mastered around the time of Avatar!!

[Pieter Boelen 1,032]

Speed is awesome!

Speed 2 is not. FANTASTIC score, though!

But Speed 2 IS awesome. Awesomely BAD!

[Jay 46,242]

It's a guilty pleasure for sure. I mean you got Willem Defoe hamming it up as the villain, and he's great! And the special effects are top notch too. And man, do I LOVE that score.

[Quintus 6,494]

I only saw Air Force One for the first time about three years ago. STILL haven't seen The Hunt for Red October, or Top Gun.

[Jay 46,242]

I don't get all the love for Top Gun. I think it's only really loved by people who saw it for the first time when they were 8-13

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

The gayest film of all time!

[Pieter Boelen 1,032]

I was forced to watch Top Gun about two years ago; didn't see the point. At all. I much prefer Hot Shots! Now THERE's a brilliant movie!

On Speed 2, I'm particularly fond of changing course by hand-cranking the bow thruster with the ship going at full speed.

That is impossible on SO many levels. And then there are the fire screen doors that lock you in. No risk of THAT happening in real life.

[Brónach 1,330]

I only saw Air Force One for the first time about three years ago. STILL haven't seen The Hunt for Red October, or Top Gun.

I thought Air Force One was another very boring film.

The Hunt for Red October wasn't perfect but it was quite entertaining and I like the score.

[publicist 4,650]

The brain tends to dooze away, yes.

[Marian Schedenig 11,694]

I only saw Air Force One for the first time about three years ago. STILL haven't seen The Hunt for Red October, or Top Gun.

Never seen Top Gun, but I seriously disliked AFO. I know it's just supposed to be a fun action movie, but its portrayal of a US president still shows many things I can't stand about American (in particular) politics.

Red October is awesome. I hope it'll get a decent Blu release before long (apparently the existing BD is really bad).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,386]

US politics is hilarious!

[publicist 4,650]

I only saw Air Force One for the first time about three years ago. STILL haven't seen The Hunt for Red October, or Top Gun.

Never seen Top Gun, but I seriously disliked AFO. I know it's just supposed to be a fun action movie, but its portrayal of a US president still shows many things I can't stand about American (in particular) politics.

I always thought that portrayal was the actual 'fun' in that action movie.

Although i still remember watching ID4 in L. A. being actually frightened by the wave of honest patriotism this dumb movie aroused by the patrons in the aisles.

[Brónach 1,330]

I can't finish that film. The other day I got home and people were seeing that and I had to find refuge in my room.

[hornist 1,261]

My 10 favorite action films of the 90s (in alpha order)

Air Force One

Bad Boys

Cliffhanger

Die Hard 3

Independence Day

The Rock

Speed

Terminator 2

Total Recall

True Lies

Brilliant list of action movies...which I try to avoid for the rest of my life.

Except T2, which I even have on Blu, It's great. Otherwise I think I hate "action" films.

[Matt C 605]

US politics is hilarious!

I'm ashamed of our politics, frankly. Things need to be done, and we have these two political parties that can't compromise on anything important. It's their way or the highway. And that White House Correspondents' Dinner.... I mean, really? It makes me resent Hollywood's relationship with DC further. Some things need to be kept separate -- like politics and entertainment.

And as for our past few presidents... haven't been happy with them.

[Brónach 1,330]

Except T2, which I even have on Blu, It's great. Otherwise I think I hate "action" films.

Just because many have been made to suck?

I think "action" is in the very essence of cinema ("movement"). It's in cinema when the concept of action, or of mere movement within a scene, becomes one the most interesting things by itself. So by extension we inmediately get these ideas: the "action scene", the "action film" for a film with a lot of "action", and so on. Cinema (with many videogames) being the artform that can work best with movement so it's logical.