Ranking the Star Wars Finale/End Credits cues

[Sandor 797]

In which order would you rank the Star Wars Finale/End Credits cues? You can just use the Episode numbers to save time typing.

I (Augie's Great Municipal Band and Finale/End Credits)

II (Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale/End Credits)

III (A New Hope and Finale/End Credits)

IV (The Throne Room and Finale/End Credits - the 1978 concert arrangement can be chosen of course)

V (The Rebel Fleet and Finale/End Credits)

VI (Ewok Celebration and Finale/End Credits or Victory Celebration and Finale/End Credits - choose your favorite from these)

I would rank them:

IV

V

II

III

I

VI

[indy4 155]

It's a pretty unfair competition since TPM, RotS and RotJ have entirely unoriginal end credit sequences. But here's how I'd rank them, taking points off for unoriginality:

V

IV

II

VI

I

III

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

V

IV

II

I

VI (Victory Celebration)

VI (Yub Nub)

III

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is it a school holiday, with Sandor posting so much?

[Jilal 569]

V, IV, II, VI (Ewok Celebration), III, I

[Sandor 797]

Is it a school holiday, with Sandor posting so much?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1. Ewok Celebration

2. The Throne Room

3. The Rebel Fleet

[Quintus 5,399]

Star Wars

[crocodile 8,000]

IV and V

VI

II

III

I

Karol

[Jay 37,346]

My ranking of the finale cue only (so not counting the end credits)

The Empire Strikes Back

Star Wars

Attack of the Clones

Return of the Jedi

Revenge of the Sith

The Phantom Menace

My ranking of the end credits medley only (no not counting the cue that leads into it)

The Empire Strikes Back

Star Wars

Return of the Jedi

Attack of the Clones

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

My ranking of the final cue + end credits combined

The Empire Strikes Back

Star Wars

Attack of the Clones

Return of the Jedi

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My ranking of the finale cue only (so not counting the end credits)

Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back

Attack of the Clones

Return of the Jedi

Revenge of the Sith

The Phantom Menace

My ranking of the end credits medley only (no not counting the cue that leads into it)

The Empire Strikes Back

Star Wars

Attack of the Clones

Return of the Jedi

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

My ranking of the final cue + end credits combined

The Empire Strikes Back

Star Wars

Attack of the Clones

Return of the Jedi

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

[Sandor 797]

I've noted AOTC ends third on a lot of lists, following SW and ESB.......

[Jay 37,346]

Its a great score, and a great finale cue. The most memorable of the prequel's finale cues, imho.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not a great score. But a good one.

[Uni 306]

V

IV

II

III

VI

I

[Balahkay 627]

ESB, SW, ROTJ, TPM and the rest.

[Uni 306]

Only two who disagree with ESB being the best. Not surprising, given the score's pedigree around here as his very best—but not at all inaccurate, either. Taken with the film's epilogue, it's just about the finest ending and overture the man ever assembled.

[Wojo 2,453]

Star Wars

Empire

Yub Nub

The rest

[nightscape94 965]

Since you're including the finale cues leading up to, and including, the end credit sequence I have to rank thusly

V (the end credits put it over the top, easily)

IV (better finale)

II

VI

III

I

[Jay 37,346]

Only two who disagree with ESB being the best. Not surprising, given the score's pedigree around here as his very best—but not at all inaccurate, either. Taken with the film's epilogue, it's just about the finest ending and overture the man ever assembled.

Yea, exactly. Not even viewing it as a entry in the Star Wars saga, or as film music in general, that finale cue is just brilliant music, period. It offers such a sad sense of defeat, but with this brilliant glimmer of hope underneath. And the end credits is the best of saga for numerous reasons, mostly because its the most unique - it was a bummer when ROTJ reverted back to aping the SW credits instead of being more original like Empire's. And beyond that, the way Williams blends Vader's Theme, Yoda's Theme, and Han and Leia's Love theme is completely brilliant. Two A+ cues individually that also blend together seamlessly. A++!

[Datameister 2,041]

Ach, this is a toughie.

Empire is just top-notch all around, for all the reasons mentioned above.

But then again, the throne room cue is a classic that never gets old, and Star Wars gets points for the sheer fact that this was the music was all being written from scratch.

The final moments of AOTC's finale cue and the transition into the end credits are very impressive, too.

TPM features a pretty weird finale cue and a pretty obvious credits cue, but both happen to be quite enjoyable. (Especially the film version, in the case of Augie's.)

My favorite thing about ROTJ's credits is the quick, jaunty transition into the Ewoks' theme. And I'm one of those weirdos who prefers "Victory Celebration" over "Yub Nub", but I'm not a fan of the way either one transitions into the credits.

That's probably how I'd rank the first five Star Wars films that were created, in descending order, though the first three are all really, really good.

Then comes ROTS. Ugh. I don't know what the hell happened here. The idea of ending with the Force theme was a great one, and Williams more or less nailed it...except for the transition. SO AWKWARD. Pretty sure I've whined about this before. The finale cue and the credits needed to have the same tonic, with a straightforward V-I cadence between them. But Williams wrote the finale in G minor and the credits in Eb, with this weird key change between them that throws the listener off-balance and destroys the moment's would-be emotional resonance. How hard would it have been to take the Force theme down a whole tone and the start of the credits up a whole tone? They then would have shared F as a tonal center, allowing the music to say, "Hey, the movie's over!" the way it needed to. Then when the trumpets do their ascending triplets, just tweak them slightly so you land on the usual Bb chord that starts the Rebel fanfare. (After all, the credits were originally written starting in C#, and Williams took it up to Eb starting in Empire.)

Can you tell I'm bitter about this?

[Jay 37,346]

We're all bitter about the prequels!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Not SF1_Freeze!

[Wojo 2,453]

Well a normal distribution always has outliers. He's an outlier.

[Datameister 2,041]

But I scarcely have any bitterness toward the music of the prequels...how could Williams have dropped the ball at such a critical moment? I like to think that for some reason, this particular decision was out of his hands...even though I can't think of a reason why anyone else would force him to write it like this.

[Jay 37,346]

Maybe George was still editing the picture at the end of scoring, and that cue is one of the last he wrote, and he didn't have time to fully think it through?

I wish he put dates on the top of his sketches on when he started and finished each cue

[Uni 306]

Not even viewing it as a entry in the Star Wars saga, or as film music in general, that finale cue is just brilliant music, period. It offers such a sad sense of defeat, but with this brilliant glimmer of hope underneath.

That's it exactly. You have to think it's a bit easier to finish off a film with a happy ending, falling back on a fanfare or celebratory piece of music to end on a high note (literally). But to so perfectly balance melancholy with hope, sadness with optimism, is a much trickier order to fulfill. And he nailed it here.

That's a particular scene I would love to watch without the music (like the Jaws clip Dreyfuss introduced at JW's farewell to the Boston Pops). I'd bet good money the result—following the story that precedes it—would be a pretty depressing affair. Williams elevates the entire sequence, creating not only positive anticipation for the next film but a tangible sense of the epic that permeates everything. It's just a classic example of a perfect marriage of cinema and music.

We're all bitter about the prequels!

Not SF1_Freeze!

He's bitter that we're bitter.

But I scarcely have any bitterness toward the music of the prequels...how could Williams have dropped the ball at such a critical moment? I like to think that for some reason, this particular decision was out of his hands...even though I can't think of a reason why anyone else would force him to write it like this.

I have no problem believing this was a Lucas decision as well.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

V

II

IV

III

VI

I

I'm sorry, but clever deconstruction of The Emperor's Theme or tribute to Koyaanisqatsi or not, Augie's Great Municipal Band is musical nails on a chalkboard for me.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

III rocks thanks to that pristine recording/performance of Leia's theme.

[indy4 155]

I'm sorry, but clever deconstruction of The Emperor's Theme or tribute to Koyaanisqatsi or not, Augie's Great Municipal Band is musical nails on a chalkboard for me.

Interesting. Care to elaborate?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

III rocks thanks to that pristine recording/performance of Leia's theme.

Yeah, don't get the hate.

I'm sorry, but clever deconstruction of The Emperor's Theme or tribute to Koyaanisqatsi or not, Augie's Great Municipal Band is musical nails on a chalkboard for me.

Interesting. Care to elaborate?

Sorry, I meant the score for Powaqqatsi, the sequel to Koyaanisqatsi.

[indy4 155]

Thanks for sharing!

[Datameister 2,041]

III rocks thanks to that pristine recording/performance of Leia's theme.

Yeah, don't get the hate.

It's a perfectly passable performance and the recording sounds pretty swell, but I still prefer the original.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I love the brief transitions from Leia's Theme to Battle of the Heroes and likewise from that to The Throne Room. Haunting stuff.

[King Mark 3,631]

I hate some of the weird transitions in the RotS End Credits...some of them just sound off

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I love the brief transitions from Leia's Theme to Battle of the Heroes and likewise from that to The Throne Room. Haunting stuff.

Really? I find it jarring.

[Datameister 2,041]

I love the brief transitions from Leia's Theme to Battle of the Heroes and likewise from that to The Throne Room. Haunting stuff.

The transition into "The Throne Room" starts off nicely, but it makes the switch too abruptly for my tastes. Doesn't sound natural. I agree about the transition from Leia's theme into "Battle of the Heroes", though. Love the way the string ostinato comes in underneath the final major chord of Leia's theme.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I love the brief transitions from Leia's Theme to Battle of the Heroes and likewise from that to The Throne Room. Haunting stuff.

Really? I find it jarring.

I agree. I really meant the little ending tag with the ostinato over Dm then to Cm. But yeah the heraldic brass fanfare in the parallel major is too jarring. I would have had the ostinato continue over a Bb Major chord (Bb-F-A-Bb), and maybe descend through the string section, with the final Bb-F-A-Bb resting on a pedal C - overlaid with the trombones and trumpets. .

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

II

III

IV

V

VI

I

"Confrontation with Dooku and Finale" is probably my favorite cue from the entire saga. Also, wow that Glass tribute is really obvious now that you point it out. I've never listened to Powaqqatsi before.

[Score 770]

V (pure perfection)

IV (comparable)

II (best ending cue of the prequels, and the love theme in the credits is a gorgeous piece of music, although it does not merge very convincingly with the fanfare at the beginning of the credits)

VI (both versions are better than Augie and worse than V, IV and II)

I (Augie is Jar-Jar-ish, and the medley in the end credits was clearly done carelessly)

III (nothing can justify the bad final modulation into the end credits at the end of the last movie of the saga)

Then comes ROTS. Ugh. I don't know what the hell happened here. The idea of ending with the Force theme was a great one, and Williams more or less nailed it...except for the transition. SO AWKWARD. Pretty sure I've whined about this before. The finale cue and the credits needed to have the same tonic, with a straightforward V-I cadence between them. But Williams wrote the finale in G minor and the credits in Eb, with this weird key change between them that throws the listener off-balance and destroys the moment's would-be emotional resonance. How hard would it have been to take the Force theme down a whole tone and the start of the credits up a whole tone? They then would have shared F as a tonal center, allowing the music to say, "Hey, the movie's over!" the way it needed to. Then when the trumpets do their ascending triplets, just tweak them slightly so you land on the usual Bb chord that starts the Rebel fanfare. (After all, the credits were originally written starting in C#, and Williams took it up to Eb starting in Empire.)

Can you tell I'm bitter about this?

I absolutely agree. I was shocked in the movie theather back then. Even more simply, the force theme could have been stated in E flat minor, to spare even the effort of transposing the first few bars of the credits (more or less like the last statement of the love theme at the end of AOTC, which is in E flat minor, and in fact the transition is convincing). It seems that Williams wrote the beginning of the credits of "A New Hope" in D flat (or C sharp), then he wrote the orchestral concert suite, where it is moved to E flat, then in all the subsequent movies he kept this key without caring too much about the relation with the finale cues, except in the cases of ESB and AOTC. Also the transition in TPM (A major abruptly to E flat major) is a bit strange, although it somehow sounds less shocking because, after hearing Augie, the modulation is really the smallest problem. Finally, I find also the transition from Yub Yub to the credits not completely natural.

From the composer of episodes V, IV, II, E.T., Close Encounters, Schindler's List and so on, it is very strange to get non-satisfying conclusions. Fortunately, it happened only a few times.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I like the modulation.

[Datameister 2,041]

Heresy!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

A little late to the party, but if we're judging the sum of both the finale and end credits, I'd rank them:

1. Star Wars

2. Empire

3. Clones

4. Jedi

5. Phantom

6. Sith

Jedi, Phantom and Sith are whatever. They're just weird finale cues (yes, even Sith, where the transition into the end credits is just awful) and cut-and-paste end credits assembled from the concert suites. At least the other ones go out with a bang and bring something new to the table for the credits.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

There is no such thing as a 'bad modulation.'

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

"Any tone can succeed any other tone, any tone can sound simultaneously with any other tone or tones, and any group of tones can be followed by any other group of tones, just as any degree of tension or nuance can occur in any medium under any kind of stress or duration. Successful projection will depend upon the contextual and formal conditions that prevail, and upon the skill and soul of the composer."

[Score 770]

There is no such thing as a 'bad modulation.'

Indeed, it is not even a modulation. Let's call it "key transition". Anyway, the chord D - G - C- D (from bottom to top) resolving to E flat major, for me, is quite "bad"

Of course, others may like it. But do you agree that the resolutions into the end credits of episodes V, IV and II were more "satisfactory"?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Nope, I think it's the best. It's the most "final" sounding.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's the best because it's the newest.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

There is no such thing as a 'bad modulation.'

Indeed, it is not even a modulation. Let's call it "key transition". Anyway, the chord D - G - C- D (from bottom to top) resolving to E flat major, for me, is quite "bad"

What's bad about it? It's one of Lehman's Type 0 Chromatically Modulating Credential Resolutions (CMCRs), although the voice leading is further smoothed out by the first chord being a sus7, so there's the common tone of G. We're also primed to expect Eb, since the Force Theme relies so heavily on the VI as an arrival point. It sounds almost inevitable.

[Datameister 2,041]

There's nothing inherently bad about that sort of modulation in and of itself. But it's awful in this context - in a moment that should have declared a sense of finality.

I strongly disagree that we're primed to expect Eb. We're already past that point in the theme. We're primed for a return to the tonic, G, since that's what the Force theme would normally do at this point. If the Force theme was going to be in G minor, the credits should have started in G major. That's the only cadence that creates the appropriate mood for the transition. The chromatic shift that Williams went with has a "surprising" sound to it - it comes out of nowhere, defying your expectations in a way that suggests something new is starting. This could be great if we were cutting to a new scene or something, but this is the credits. The music has to say, "The movie's over!" And in this case, since it was going to be the last Star Wars film, it really needed to say, "The saga's over!"