Hexachords in JAWS

[tedfud 38]

Hello

I'm my rather fab new book from Norman Ludwin on modern compositional techniques he cites an example from Jaws in the "Man against Beast" cue. In measure 5 there is a " hexachord of D,E#,F#,G,A,Bb in the Harp and Diminished string chords " And again in measure 22 their is a second Hex , C#,Eb,E,G,A,Bb . "used for eight measure and scored for harps and piano "...is there a chance these are just two set's rather than a six note set ?

all the best

t

[filmmusic 1,826]

What book is this?

edit: oh, it's the book you had talked about that is not available anymore..

[tedfud 38]

no...this one is.....http://www.musicnewapproach.com/#!composition---a-new-approach/cgc7

t

[Ludwig 1,120]

I'm my rather fab new book from Norman Ludwin on modern compositional techniques he cites an example from Jaws in the "Man against Beast" cue. In measure 5 there is a " hexachord of D,E#,F#,G,A,Bb in the Harp and Diminished string chords " And again in measure 22 their is a second Hex , C#,Eb,E,G,A,Bb . "used for eight measure and scored for harps and piano "...is there a chance these are just two set's rather than a six note set ?

The notes he gives for the first hexachord don't seem to be correct. I get Bb-D#-A-G-D#-C#.

Even so, I'd understand both of these as extended uses of tonal materials. To my mind, the first hexachord is best understood as a version of the horn call that appears over the main theme's famous two-note ostinato. There, we had Eb-G-Bb-C#, basically an Eb7 chord. Here, we have that (written enharmonically) plus an extra A, which can be taken as passing between Bb and G, so the original Eb7 still remains strongly intact. And the Stravinskian polytonal feeling is still here too (as it was stated in the main theme) with the chord rubbing dissonantly against the bass note E.

The second hexachord is an ostinato from the main theme that wavers between two triads: Eb major and A major. The tritone distance between these two creates a disturbingly unsettled feeling, as though the triads suggest there should be a tonic but obliterate any stability through their tritone relationship. In other words, either Eb or A could be taken as tonic, and as the music wavers between the two, so does our sense of tonic, making us feel as though there is no ground beneath our feet - an apt metaphor for being in the water as helpless prey.

[Quintus 5,399]

Sharky?

[tedfud 38]

I'm my rather fab new book from Norman Ludwin on modern compositional techniques he cites an example from Jaws in the "Man against Beast" cue. In measure 5 there is a " hexachord of D,E#,F#,G,A,Bb in the Harp and Diminished string chords " And again in measure 22 their is a second Hex , C#,Eb,E,G,A,Bb . "used for eight measure and scored for harps and piano "...is there a chance these are just two set's rather than a six note set ?

The notes he gives for the first hexachord don't seem to be correct. I get Bb-D#-A-G-D#-C#.

Even so, I'd understand both of these as extended uses of tonal materials. To my mind, the first hexachord is best understood as a version of the horn call that appears over the main theme's famous two-note ostinato. There, we had Eb-G-Bb-C#, basically an Eb7 chord. Here, we have that (written enharmonically) plus an extra A, which can be taken as passing between Bb and G, so the original Eb7 still remains strongly intact. And the Stravinskian polytonal feeling is still here too (as it was stated in the main theme) with the chord rubbing dissonantly against the bass note E.

The second hexachord is an ostinato from the main theme that wavers between two triads: Eb major and A major. The tritone distance between these two creates a disturbingly unsettled feeling, as though the triads suggest there should be a tonic but obliterate any stability through their tritone relationship. In other words, either Eb or A could be taken as tonic, and as the music wavers between the two, so does our sense of tonic, making us feel as though there is no ground beneath our feet - an apt metaphor for being in the water as helpless prey.

ok...so they are just re-use of already established material ( albeit with the odd additional interval ) rather than a parallel source of harmony ?

t

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

Hello

I'm my rather fab new book from Norman Ludwin on modern compositional techniques he cites an example from Jaws in the "Man against Beast" cue. In measure 5 there is a " hexachord of D,E#,F#,G,A,Bb in the Harp and Diminished string chords " And again in measure 22 their is a second Hex , C#,Eb,E,G,A,Bb . "used for eight measure and scored for harps and piano "...is there a chance these are just two set's rather than a six note set ?

all the best

t

Can anyone provide times?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm my rather fab new book from Norman Ludwin on modern compositional techniques he cites an example from Jaws in the "Man against Beast" cue. In measure 5 there is a " hexachord of D,E#,F#,G,A,Bb in the Harp and Diminished string chords " And again in measure 22 their is a second Hex , C#,Eb,E,G,A,Bb . "used for eight measure and scored for harps and piano "...is there a chance these are just two set's rather than a six note set ?

The notes he gives for the first hexachord don't seem to be correct. I get Bb-D#-A-G-D#-C#.

Even so, I'd understand both of these as extended uses of tonal materials. To my mind, the first hexachord is best understood as a version of the horn call that appears over the main theme's famous two-note ostinato. There, we had Eb-G-Bb-C#, basically an Eb7 chord. Here, we have that (written enharmonically) plus an extra A, which can be taken as passing between Bb and G, so the original Eb7 still remains strongly intact. And the Stravinskian polytonal feeling is still here too (as it was stated in the main theme) with the chord rubbing dissonantly against the bass note E.

The second hexachord is an ostinato from the main theme that wavers between two triads: Eb major and A major. The tritone distance between these two creates a disturbingly unsettled feeling, as though the triads suggest there should be a tonic but obliterate any stability through their tritone relationship. In other words, either Eb or A could be taken as tonic, and as the music wavers between the two, so does our sense of tonic, making us feel as though there is no ground beneath our feet - an apt metaphor for being in the water as helpless prey.

ok...so they are just re-use of already established material ( albeit with the odd additional interval ) rather than a parallel source of harmony ?

t

Basically. And the elephant in the room here is of course the octatonic (or diminished) scale, which is the source of most of the harmony in JAWS (including the major chords a tritone apart first heard with Chrissie's swim) .

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Looking at passage he quotes, I can't see any diminished chords. There's a sustained tremolo Eb Major chord in second inversion in the violins and violas along with a polytonal E pedal in the cellos and basses. Maybe he missed out the b accidental?