Brian Tyler & Danny Elfman - The Avengers: Age of Ultron

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The music does seem mixed lower then the first film

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It didn't flourish until the end credits. Otherwise, they could have got a computer to score this movie. The score was lost in a chaos of sound effects, presented in glorious deaf-o-rama.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was fine in Dolby Atmos

[Jilal 569]

After I see the film tomorrow I'll give it another listen to make sense of it in my head.

I think the problem nowadays is that the actual melodic content of a cue tends to be buried under a far louder potpourri of tutti ostinatos and the pounding of a percussion section too large, requiring the listener to pay a lot of attention to discern what actually makes the cue worth to listen to.

I'm probably exaggerating, but I'd appreciate it if composers like Tyler would write in a more linear, multi-layered way and not feel the urge to double everything or write a multitude of percussion elements to hide the fact that melodically, there's only one or two things going on. After a while, the solid, homogeneous wall Tyler tends to build begins to tire, and to be honest, his cues are not the only ones suffering from this, although Elfman tends to write more linearly which I ultimately prefer. I'm not saying I don't like Tyler's underscore at all - there are a couple of cues I did enjoy listening to - but it's not really my cup of tea.

In fact - a bit off-topic, I admit - most of the Zimmer-bashing crowd doesn't realise that the music he composes really doesn't suffer from all of this - he does tend to write linearly and constructs music consisting of different layers and various interesting textures resounding and interacting with each other at the same time. I'm afraid his textures just don't appeal to a lot of people here.

[leeallen01 2,135]

After I see the film tomorrow I'll give it another listen to make sense of it in my head.

I think the problem nowadays is that the actual melodic content of a cue tends to be buried under a far louder potpourri of tutti ostinatos and the pounding of a percussion section too large, requiring the listener to pay a lot of attention to discern what actually makes the cue worth to listen to.

I'm probably exaggerating, but I'd appreciate it if composers like Tyler would write in a more linear, multi-layered way and not feel the urge to double everything or write a multitude of percussion elements to hide the fact that melodically, there's only one or two things going on. After a while, the solid, homogeneous wall Tyler tends to build begins to tire, and to be honest, his cues are not the only ones suffering from this, although Elfman tends to write more linearly which I ultimately prefer. I'm not saying I don't like Tyler's underscore at all - there are a couple of cues I did enjoy listening to - but it's not really my cup of tea.

In fact - a bit off-topic, I admit - most of the Zimmer-bashing crowd doesn't realise that the music he composes really doesn't suffer from all of this - he does tend to write linearly and constructs music consisting of different layers and various interesting textures resounding and interacting with each other at the same time. I'm afraid his textures just don't appeal to a lot of people here.

I agree. Tyler seems insecure to showcase any melodies he writes. I do feel they are a tad generic, for example I can barely tell the difference between his Thor, Iron Man and even his TMNT theme. I think he isn't comfortable as others who have strong themes that they put at the front and layer it with background elements whereas like you say, Tyler has the background elements in the foreground and hides his melodies in the background. I know it might be strange to hear but I think his Furious 7 score is my favourite of his. I enjoy his Thor and Iron Man etc but he doesn't hide in Furious 7. He just pounds lots of themes out and gives them decent and fun goes. His 7 note percussive main theme heard in the first piece on the score is very fun and simply written. It is all so over the top with choir moments for a fight between Statham and Diesel haha but it works as ridiculous fun.

It is true what you say about Zimmer, most of the time he isn't my cup of tea, but he doesn't hide his melodies (when he writes strong ones). POTC 3 is just theme after theme, very hummable and fun.

[Matt C 452]

The score is underwhelming for me. Parts of it are fun, but Marvel should've brought back Silvestri for this.

Which parts are fun?

Karol

Some of the Elfman cues like "Heroes", "Avengers Unite" and "Inevitability / One Good Eye" and a few Tyler cues like "Rise Together." It doesn't have a linear 'story flow' to it like Silvestri's score. Whether people like Silvestri's Avengers score is debatable, but there was a narrative flow to it that Ultron lacks. And I think that's partly due to two composers plus the temp tracking.

Maybe the score will work better in the film. I hope so, I would love to revisit it with fresh ears.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Some of the Elfman cues like "Heroes", "Avengers Unite" and "Inevitability / One Good Eye" and a few Tyler cues like "Rise Together." It doesn't have a linear 'story flow' to it like Silvestri's score.

I think that is indeed one of the main weaknesses of this score, though I until told otherwise, I still suspect it's partly due to an incomplete and non-chronological album.

[crocodile 7,998]

My ruminations on the score as heard in the film.

Nothing truly detailed, just a review of the score in context.

Karol

[Jay 37,336]

Interesting read, Karol!

... but, they did not "literally" catch lightning in a bottle, and Tyler and Elfman's styles are not "literally" night and day

and Silvestri scored "The First Avenger", not "The Winter Soldier" (7th paragraph)

[crocodile 7,998]

Right. Wrote this in 20 minutes. Hence, the blurbs and things like that. Will correct it now. Thanks for the observations, much appreciated

Karol

[Jay 37,336]

It's interesting to read you and Stefan's comments about how butchered the score is in the final cut. I'd like to see the cut of that film that existed in January that all of Tyler's original cues conformed to, and compare that cut to what we have now. What did the producers not like about it that they felt so much needed to be changed, I wonder?

[crocodile 7,998]

It's such a waste of time for two gentlemen. Either of them could clearly do this on their own. Ah well..

Yeah, we just need session material. Then we could perhaps create our own playlists.

Karol

[Jay 37,336]

I get the impression that the film itself got re-edited, repeatedly, leading to the need for new cues, and not just the movie stayed the same but they didn't like the music.

But who knows.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think the producers were probably happy with Tylers work. Whedon less so.

[Jay 37,336]

Really? I was thinking it could have been the other way around.

But now that I think about it, that makes more sense....

[crocodile 7,998]

Whedon employed Silvestri because he wanted something slightly more old-fashioned. And that's what Elfman was trying to bring in. I agree with notorious Dutchman, it must have been that.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Marvel seem happy with Tyler. Whedon probably less so.

[crocodile 7,998]

Tyler is perfect for Marvel material but Elfman works better with Whedon's touch.

I was really disappointed that it didn't quite come across in the film as much.

Have you heard the album yet, Stefan?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not yet.

[crocodile 7,998]

The 80 minutes of it might be a bit overbearing and aimless. But if you isolate 28 minutes of Elfman tracks, you'll find his contributions promised a much stronger personality than the one heard in the film itself. And, as such, he was a very worthy heir to Silvestri's.

Karol

[Mr. Who 919]

After having seen the movie I must say some cues really stuck with me. The score was played very softly though. Even cues like Rise Together were barely audible. Was probably my cinema though. Great movie!

Elfan's material is the best, but Tyler has some pretty good cues as well It works well in the movie even though as many have pointed out, it sounds kind of incoherent. Tyler really hit the mark the Ultron scenes! The score shines in it's heroic moments where the new theme plays, which in my opinion is better than Silvestri's original theme. It would really be interesting to hear the sessions as we'd maybe get to know what rejected music was written!

[Brónach 1,302]

I was generally bored by the score, but I like some random instances of Elfman's heroic music.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They should have just rehired Silvestri. Was he not available?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Unknown

[Mr. Who 919]

It would have been good for the continuity to bring him back. However I think the avengers score wasn't so good. His captain america score was way better. The avengers score had some good themes like the helicarrier, avengers theme etc but as a whole, it was rather weak IMO. I would have liked Elfman to score the whole thing.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I thought Silvestri's action music was better in GI Joe. But as a whole, The Avengers was a strong effort.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The first score has a few standout tracks and a couple of nice themes. But Al;so a lot of noisy filler and typical Silvestri action music that doesnt really go anywhere

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

I think the problem with Avengers might have been the limitations they set on Silvestri, mainly the fact that they specifically asked for a mostly theme-less score. Also the score seems to barely use woodwinds, which seems unlike Silvestri, so I guess that was an executive order too. And the general response by the average viewer wasn't really strong, these type of audiences used to a very different thing to what Alan provided.

As for his return to the second film, I imagine it's something like Predators, where they didn't even ask him.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder if Whedon hired hiom on the strength of his Captain America score and wanted something like that, but Marvel wanted something more "modern" and The Avengers is a sort of consensus between the two styles.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

mainly the fact that they specifically asked for a mostly theme-less score.

Why do they even hire composers anymore?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Who asked for a themeless score?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Marvel

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Marvel is an entity. Who? The director, the producer? And how do we know? Interview? PR?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Mr Marvel.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Marvel v Whedon: Dawn Of Movie Themes!

[Brónach 1,302]

That was a terrible movie choice to go with a themeless score. It seems to me that audiences react strongly to themes clearly associated to characters. It's an automatic fanboy excitement button.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Themes are seem as vulgar and manipulative these days

[Brónach 1,302]

Cue people fawning over the Star Wars trailer.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Soundtrack geeks fawn over the music, but did regular people?

[Wojo 2,453]

Do you know any? Ask them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dont kjnow any regular people.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Marvel v Whedon: Dawn Of Movie Themes!

More like Dusk Of Movie Themes!

[Wojo 2,453]

Well you won't find any here or at FSM.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Feige could very well have shitty musical sensibilities and be the one responsible for the state of Marvel music. He probably is. Whedon is known to be musical though so we can thank him for at least trying to retain some semblance of quality and distinctiveness.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Feige is the new Rick Berman?

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

As far as I know Whedon specifically asked for just one theme for the Avengers as a group, and not using the previous themes for the individual personalities.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But Silvestri used his Captain America theme

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

Yeah, but barely.

[Jay 37,336]

Maybe Whedon didn't notice.

[crocodile 7,998]

And he also used his Tessaract theme.

Karol