Williams starts scoring Episode VII in two (!) weeks..?

[A24 4,333]

Hear it from the pros:

American and European orchestras hardly differ these days, say the conductor. Such was not always the case. "50 years ago, there was once a big difference. People said the American orchestras were quite virtuosic but somewhat cool, while European orchestras played in a more warm-hearted way but with less precision. That's changed thanks to the media and touring. The continents have grown closer. Now European orchestras aren't clumsy at all, nor do American orchestras play coolly." - Christoph Eschenbach

[TownerFan 4,983]

That is true as well. As I said, it's not scientific matter. The differences may be more subtle, but imho they're still there (even though they're probably more noticeable when you hear it in live concerts than studio recordings).

[KK 3,307]

Case in point is the score to The Desolation Of Smaug, which despite a whole different orchestra from another part of the world doesnt really sound very different at all then the previous 4 Middle Earth scores.

But there WAS a significant difference in the sound. They did a good job of getting the Middle-Earth sound, but still rather different than the LPO, due to varying factors such as the instrument quality, performance experience, etc.

Of course, the difference would be much harder to discern when comparing 2 orchestras at the same level like the LSO and the guys at LA. But that doesn't mean its not there.

Different orchestras tend to have characteristic sounds.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The SW Prequels have the same final sound as any other Williams scores recorded in the 2000's. Plus AotC is known to have more hiss and sounds worse than most

Which doesn't have anything to do with the orchestra.

I never stated that. But the individual difference of each single performer become next to impossible to distinguish if you have 80 to 100 players performing in unison.

For pickup orchestras (like the LA session orchestras): Very probably. The difference being that they are the best sight readers in the world and can record new music on a very short schedule that most European orchestras would simply not be capable of.

But performing orchestras that give regular concerts with the same personnel, and have been doing so for decades, have obviously establishes their own identities. That's not so much a matter of the sound of individual instruments (though you do at times have big differences in the actual instruments used by an orchestra, e.g. the Viennese horns used by the Wiener Philharmoniker but, to my knowledge, hardly any international orchestra, or orchestras working with period instruments), but mostly affects things like phrasing and interplay between different instrument groups. Also precision vs. more liberal phrasing. I'm not saying I'm any good at picking up these differences myself (I never really tried), but it's what I usually hear on the topic, and even as a member of an amateur choir it seems obvious to me. I do remember hearing the LSO perform Bruckner's 4th under Haitink and being amazed by their clockwork precision, something you don't usually get by an orchestra like the Wiener Philharmoniker.

I'm not saying there's no difference at all, but that the difference isnt as pronounced as other factors like recording studio, mikes, and especially mixing

That's acoustic differences, which are only part of what we're talking about.

As for the ideas of getting the LSO to the US: That seems very unlikely to me. Even if they'd actually consider it (which I doubt). I don't know how long in advance you have to book the LSO for recording sessions (which I assume take place during the day), but to take a full size performing orchestra on a tour across the Atlantic usually has to be planned a few years in advance.

[publicist 4,643]

I'm fairly certain that for 99.9% of the living population it will not matter either way.

[Incanus 5,714]

So we have at least these combinations to speculate on:

1. John Williams travels to London to score the film with LSO
2. The LSO is brought to US to score the film (JW conducts)
3. John Williams scores the film at US with a studio orchestra
4. The score is recorded at London by the LSO with someone else conducting and Williams supervising the process

And while the sound of one symphony orchestra might not be readily distinguishable from another to most people, I am sure all the people involved, including LSO, would like to continue their association with this franschise.

[Jay 37,364]

Your option 2 is not an option.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'd rather this go to the HSS than the LSO.

[Incanus 5,714]

Your option 2 is not an option.

Well it is an impossibility but one can dream. That way JW could work with them. If JW doesn't come to the mountain...

I'd rather this go to the HSS than the LSO.

That would be a memorable performance I am sure.

[King Mark 3,631]

Option 4 is the least desirable

Williams usually records many takes until he gets what he wants to hear and corrects some stuff on the podium. He'll do that no matter what orchestra is used

The only score he didn't conduct is CoS, but even that's shrouded in mystery

Also does anyone forget that the LSO in 2014 is not the same as the one in the late 70's? Probably all the musicians are changed

The SW Prequels have the same final sound as any other Williams scores recorded in the 2000's. Plus AotC is known to have more hiss and sounds worse than most

Which doesn't have anything to do with the orchestra.

Correction, the SW Prequels don't sound better performance wise than any other JW scores in the 2000's

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Am I the only one that thinks that COS is the best-sounding Potter score? Azkaban is my favorite music-wise, but the orchestra and mixing in CoS is just too damn fantastic.

[Jay 37,364]

COS is *DEFINITELY* the best sounding Potter score. The LSO really played their asses off on that one, and it was recorded perfect. That's one of the reasons I love that OST CD so much - the performance and recording. It's like all the highlights of the first score with all the amazing new material in a big smorgasbord of awesomeness.

[Omen II 1,235]

Your option 2 is not an option.

While I might agree that this is the least likely option, why do you think it is not an option at all, Jay? The LSO tours regularly and has an annual residency at the Lincoln Center in New York, therefore the orchestra is used to travelling en masse across the pond for long enough to record a film score. I am also mindful that the John Wilson Orchestra, which contains several members of the LSO in its ranks, travelled to LA last year to give a concert that John Williams himself attended.

[Damien F 1,742]

So we have at least these combinations to speculate on:

1. John Williams travels to London to score the film with LSO
2. The LSO is brought to US to score the film (JW conducts)
3. John Williams scores the film at US with a studio orchestra
4. The score is recorded at London by the LSO with someone else conducting and Williams supervising the process

And while the sound of one symphony orchestra might not be readily distinguishable from another to most people, I am sure all the people involved, including LSO, would like to continue their association with this franschise.

Perhaps another option would be for John Williams to conduct a renowned American orchestra in the US, like using the Chicago Symphony Orchestra for Lincoln instead of a studio orchestra. If that is the case, my bet is the BSO given his relationship and history with them.

Obviously, my preference is a LSO conducted score though.

[Quintus 5,399]

Just reassemble the players from E.T. and get them on it. It'd be Johnnygasm galore for me if they did.

[Jay 37,364]

Your option 2 is not an option.

While I might agree that this is the least likely option, why do you think it is not an option at all, Jay? The LSO tours regularly and has an annual residency at the Lincoln Center in New York, therefore the orchestra is used to travelling en masse across the pond for long enough to record a film score. I am also mindful that the John Wilson Orchestra, which contains several members of the LSO in its ranks, travelled to LA last year to give a concert that John Williams himself attended.

I just don't think Disney and Kennedy will agree to pay to send 100 orchestra playes, 100 choir members, and all the instruments and stuff, to LA for a month of recording. The price would be astronomical.

[Datameister 2,042]

The SW Prequels have the same final sound as any other Williams scores recorded in the 2000's.

Hardly. The performance - and overall sound, which is indeed heavily influenced by recording venue, mic choices and placements, mixing, and so forth - is head and shoulders above things like KOTCS or Tintin. That's not to say that the latter scores sound bad...but the prequels are better, particularly TPM.

Williams usually records many takes until he gets what he wants to hear and corrects some stuff on the podium. He'll do that no matter what orchestra is used

That'll happen no matter who conducts. Williams has no monopoly on getting great performances from the orchestra, and I'm sure he'd make any necessary changes remotely just as he would if he were in the booth.

The only score he didn't conduct is CoS, but even that's shrouded in mystery

I seem to recall Jurassic Park being conducted by someone else, too? Both scores have that classic modern Williams sound. As far as tempo goes, it's all built explicitly into the music, leaving very little up to the conductor from a creative standpoint. The rest is all about eliciting correct, balanced performances from the orchestra, and again, Williams doesn't have a monopoly on that. I love that he usually conducts his own scores, but it's his composition style that sets his music apart.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Artie Kane conducted a few sessions of JP because JW hurt his back.

He didnt conduct the whole score though.

[Jim Ware 526]

The only score he didn't conduct is CoS, but even that's shrouded in mystery

I seem to recall Jurassic Park being conducted by someone else, too? Both scores have that classic modern Williams sound. As far as tempo goes, it's all built explicitly into the music, leaving very little up to the conductor from a creative standpoint. The rest is all about eliciting correct, balanced performances from the orchestra, and again, Williams doesn't have a monopoly on that. I love that he usually conducts his own scores, but it's his composition style that sets his music apart.

Artie Kane, who is married to Jo Ann Kane trivia fans!

[King Mark 3,631]

The SW Prequels have the same final sound as any other Williams scores recorded in the 2000's.

Hardly. The performance - and overall sound, which is indeed heavily influenced by recording venue, mic choices and placements, mixing, and so forth - is head and shoulders above things like KOTCS or Tintin. That's not to say that the latter scores sound bad...but the prequels are better, particularly TPM.

Then you must have a vastly superior understanding and appreciation of music than anyone else here. Good for you if you can pinpoint errors in the KotCS and Tintin performances and clearly distinguish they are inferior to the Prequels

I mean no disrespect, but I think your talking out of your ass.(as do a few others here)

Personally, I only hear errors and sub-par performances when JW conducts the Boston Pops in live concerts.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Slightly off topic but, Why did KOTCS sound so thin (especially in the trumpet section)? Did they use a significantly smaller orchestra? Was it simply a bad recording?

[King Mark 3,631]

Plus JW OST's is usually the benchmark on how the music is supposed to sound. Anyone who conducted a re-recording of JW's music gets it wrong or it sounds vastly different (see endless JW compilation c.d.'s). There's NO reason to believe a substitute conductor would record the music as JW intended

Again, the exception is CoS, but I think Williams stepped in at the last minute and conducted it himself too (I really believe that, despite the credit on the c.d.). I think the CoS situation is akin to Spielberg being the actual director of Poltergeist . We'll never know what really really happened. And on JP it was probably some lesser cues. I doubt it was Artie Kane who conducted Journey to the Island.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, the exception is CoS, but I think Williams stepped in at the last minute and conducted it himself too (I really believe that, despite the credit on the c.d.). I think the CoS situation is akin to Spielberg being the actual director of Poltergeist . We'll never know what really really happened.

Do you also believe 9/11 was a false flag operation set up by the CIA and Bush? And that Obama was born in mosque in Kenya?

[King Mark 3,631]

I want to see footage of William Ross conducting CoS

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I want to see footage of William Ross writing COS

[gkgyver 1,645]

I want to see clear footage of a plane hitting the pentagon.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Again, the exception is CoS, but I think Williams stepped in at the last minute and conducted it himself too (I really believe that, despite the credit on the c.d.). I think the CoS situation is akin to Spielberg being the actual director of Poltergeist . We'll never know what really really happened.

Do you also believe 9/11 was a false flag operation set up by the CIA and Bush?

Uh, I believe the CIA bit, but not Bush. He was incompetent but not a monster.

[Datameister 2,042]

Then you must have a vastly superior understanding and appreciation of music than anyone else here. Good for you if you can pinpoint errors in the KotCS and Tintin performances and clearly distinguish they are inferior to the Prequels

I mean no disrespect, but I think your talking out of your ass.(as do a few others here)

Errors in the sense of wrong notes or rhythms? Nah, I don't hear anything so blatant. Two performances of the same piece can both hit all the right pitches at all the right times and still sound very different. If you hear no difference, fantastic - you get to enjoy the music more than I do with my "vastly superior" ears. Or maybe I am talking out of my ass, and there's no difference whatsoever. Maybe I'm just subconsciously fabricating differences because to my way of thinking, there's no way anything could possibly sound as good as my precious prequels.

The only way to know for sure would be to record the exact same passage in both settings and then do lots of double-blind listening tests to see whether I could consistently pick out which was which. I'm pretty sure I (along with many others, perhaps including you) would be able to tell, and I assume you're pretty sure we wouldn't be able to tell, and we can't actually do this experiment, so the whole thing's kind of moot, don't you think?

[publicist 4,643]

First world problems.

[King Mark 3,631]

The only way to know for sure would be to record the exact same passage in both settings and then do lots of double-blind listening tests to see whether I could consistently pick out which was which. I'm pretty sure I (along with many others, perhaps including you) would be able to tell, and I assume you're pretty sure we wouldn't be able to tell, and we can't actually do this experiment, so the whole thing's kind of moot, don't you think?

What I mean is if you put Tintin, KotCS,RotS and War Horse in a blind test and didn't know anything before hand , then I wouldn't be able to tell which one is LSO

First world problems.

of course!

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm not saying there's no difference at all, but that the difference isnt as pronounced as other factors like recording studio, mikes, and especially mixing

Case in point is the score to The Desolation Of Smaug, which despite a whole different orchestra from another part of the world doesnt really sound very different at all then the previous 4 Middle Earth scores.

Another example, the Boston Pops live sound different then they do on their recordings.

Actually, to me Desolation and Journey sound different from LOTR scores. Desolation and Journey sound different from eachother as well. Is it just me or there a lot more Williams style brass sound in Desolation - perhaps an influence of Pope?

[AMVANQUISH007 1]

Well its good to see my suggestion of taking the LSO to JW has stirred up some passions

NOW- I work in London and I was in a pub not far from Pinewood Studios and overheard on a table next to me that Episode 7 and 8 may--I say may--be being filmed back to back

Or at least certain scenes being shot for Episode 8 containing the old cast.

Can anybody shed any light on this?

This would be quite development especially if JW was scoring for new characters and old characters across these 7 and 8

[King Mark 3,631]

Well, he's supposed to score ep.8..if he's heath continues to be good

But Ep. 8 is already confirmed to be directed by another director, so I doubt they shoot it back to back

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He's supposed to do Episode VIII? When was that announced?

[King Mark 3,631]

Well in JW's video he implied he'd score the trilogy,no?

He's not "confirmed" for Ep8 though

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Have they found someone to direct IX? I'm sure VIII is in the writing/pre-production stage.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I think it's supposed to be the same guy that's doing VIII

[crocodile 8,012]

Yeah, he apparently signed on for two pictures.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The Looper guy?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He also did Fly and Ozimandias! Thats gotta count for something.

[crocodile 8,012]

Fly. You mean the worst episode of Breaking Bad?

Karol

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I like it, it's not that bad. I remember really liking it when it came out, I'd have to see the whole series again to see if it was really that bad.

[crocodile 8,012]

It's not my own opinion, just a general consensus.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

It wasn't bad at all. People consider it the weakest because it had nothing to move the overall show plot forward. But that's what I found so refreshing about it. It's a very good ep.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Last year Kathy Kennedy said Williams committed to score all three films, but last June LFL clarified he officially signed only for VII at this point.

Rian Johnson signed to write and direct Episode VIII and, as far as now, he'll just write a treatment for Episode IX:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-episode-viii-sets-713726

By the way, EpVII filming just wrapped yesterday:

http://makingstarwars.net/2014/11/star-wars-episode-vii-wrap/

[AMVANQUISH007 1]

Yes Towner Fan--the wrapping of EpVII was confirmed on BBC Radio 2's Steve Wright show

I heard this also at the Interstellar premiere.

So if they have edited scenes together with a modicum of finished animation, storyboarding and temp animation with as near as dammit a finished running time then very much like his scoring for TinTin-JW can clearly make a start on characters and themes and hone it with a full score weeks before he gets the orchestra involved

If one looks at the LSO dates schedule for 2015-after October 2015 they will be doing lunchtime concerts on a weekly basis on BBC Radio 3 up to and including Nov 20th-after that they are free

Maybe from November 21st they have been scheduled in at Abbey Road for 10 days to do Episode 7 leaving a few weeks in December to complete the sound effects and music mixing.

I remember when Williams scored here in London for Episodes 1/2 and 3 when he finished recording the scores -the film was released less than a month later

They were all on very tight windows at the time to complete-get it to the censors and show the film bookers/ buyers-even though it was a forgone conclusion that the film would open on advance booking on multiple screens weeks.

For a simultaneous worldwide DEC 18th release-most distributors have cleared the decks up until early January knowing full well they just are not going to get the 3 largest screens for at least 3 weeks in any multiplex here in the UK

Typo-multiple screens weeks before the release date.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I remember when Williams scored here in London for Episodes 1/2 and 3 when he finished recording the scores -the film was released less than a month later

All three prequel scores were recorded in February (1999, 2002, 2005), with the films always released in May.

[AMVANQUISH007 1]

I stand corrected on the time difference, but my timeline is not that much of a difference. i should have perhaps mentioned that having been a film buyer of multiplex cinemas at the time - we actually got to see the film about a month prior to its release. I do remember on two of the prequels seeing the film about 4/5 weeks prior to its release at a private fox screening. I've checked back in my diaries of the time and see that it was in the April period- I think if you work that the scores were finished at the end of February then there is really only a complete month of March in between to mix as was the case and to make sure other territories were dubbed to make sure the release went out on a worldwide simultaneous release strategy so as to avoid piracy

[Jay 37,364]

Episode 7 will probably be recorded in August or September. Where, we don't know.

[AMVANQUISH007 1]

Although there are spaces in between the LSOs BBC 3 Radio 3 concerts of 6 day blocks in September and October to achieve recording a score. The LSO have no information as yet on the scoring of the film but then again we are a year away