BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 It's a bloated TV movie that is insanely watchable and entertaining, yet massively disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I like this movie. I love this score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 A very interesting review which made me consider a few things for the first time.You are probably right that for someone with no knowledge of TNG, this film is rather impenetrable.At the time TNG was a big, very successful show, and Generations was shot pretty much straight after that ended by mainly the same people.Because of this they barely make any effort to re-introduce any of the characters. This film basically plays fro Star Trek TNG fans. So thats why Data gets his emotions so fast. It's actually not fast at all, it's a plot thread from season 7 that they left lingering. The film also barely establishes who Guinan is etc etc. Because they assumed most people watching Generations would know this.This might reek of arrogance or carelessness now. But it's a simple fact that Star Trek TNG was huge at the time. No one criticized TESB for not introducing the characters for people who might not have seen Star Wars.So I find the choice of not really fleshing out characters fairly understandable. Though, now newcomers will feel short changed.Like I said this film was shot straight after TNG ended, and in many ways it feels like that. Star Trek TMP was an event. This one feels a continuation of the TV show on a somewhat larger scale.No where is this more clear then in the way this film depicts the Enterprise. Unlike BB, I think she was a beautiful design. But up until the crash, there really isnt a single impressive shot of her. The establishing shot shows little more then the saucer section. The shot of the Enterprise going to warp looks like a HD version of the same shot that was used in countless episodes. They had the chance to finally show her off on the big screen, and they missed it. Like everyone involved with this film was bored with her....The Enterprise Bridge was indeed quite an 80's design concept. A lot lighter and roomier then on the old show. Which made it easier to shoot on.Kids on the Enterprise might seem odd, but that was also part of TNG. It wasnt a hard-core exploration vessel like The Enterprise on TOS was. It was very much a floating city. With holodecks for entertainment, a counselor for your mental health issues etc etc. Again very 1980's.I agee that TUC was a perfect way to close the original cast series of films, which makes so much of this pointless. Though I cant deny it's always good to see Shatner. And I rather like him in this one.James Kirk deserved more then this death scene though.Everything connected to the Nexus is very TNG in its conception and execution. Unlike TOS, The Next Generation really ramped up the pseudo science and the term technobabble pretty much originated from the shows habit of explaining plot ideas is very complicated pseudo science. It's a major stylistic element of the show that remains in Generations, but returns in a much lesser extent in subsequent films.The Nexus is ultimatly an interesting sci-fi idea that doesnt stand up to close scrutiny at all. If Guinan is still there, then Soran must also be (though its possible he simply never realized this).If it's so hard to enter the Nexus that Soran must destroy stars, why is it apparently so easy to leave?I like the concept on a philosophical level. A sort of dream world which becomes an empty one once you realize it's not real. But even Picard, who never had a family should know that this picture perfect Hallmark/Dickensian Christmas scene is rubbish! It's quite an important scene for the character, but it just feels completely phony.Like every Star Trek film, its perfectly watchable. It's slick and good looking without ever looking amazing. The regular cast performs the roles they are known for very well, without often seeming to realize that this time they are in a film.I guess thats it's main flaw. If they had waited a year, ot two years before doing this film, it might have felt more special. Like First Contact certainly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 It's better because i actually know the characters very well. It's far from a great scene though. apart from the excellent first shot of that crew on a sailing ship (which indeed makes no sense if you dont know what a holodeck is).Did you notice that the scene of the Bird Of Prey exploding was a straight reuse of TUC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Star Trek 5 reused footage of the Enterprise in Spacedock from Trek 4. Also one shot of a starfield is reused from the very opening of TWOK.No footage is reused after Generations though, IIRC.Generations also reuses a shot of The Excelsior in warp, passing it off as the Enterprise B. Which is ofcourse the same model, slightly reworked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 If my memory of the Star Trek Encyclopedia serves me right, it's supposed to be an ancestor of Worf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 WrongThe character in TUC is even called General Worf by the Judge. Clearly establishing a connection with the TNG character (who must be named after this grandfather, because Klingons have no surnames.)That cameo, and the location of Khitomer are the films most obvious intended references to TNG.There are other ones ofcourse. Like the fact that many of the sets in this film are in fact redressed TNG sets (The Transporter room, Engineering, the Federation Presidents office etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Generation needed to show Picard's reaction to the death of his brother and/or nephew to establish the extent of his family. This is important because Picard later gets a family in the Nexus, and we have to understand it's not real and why, and how he can walk away from it. It's likely that all El-Aurians from that transport have echoes left in the Nexus, in addition to their "real" selves that were ripped away. Guinan's echo sought out Picard to help, while we didn't meet Soran's echo. And the real Soran didn't know or care about the echo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I always wished there was a scene in this where Kirk got to see Klingons serving on the bridge. Given how Klingons killed his son, it was something that would have been very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Picard losing his family is indeed only pertinent to the plot of this film.Though could it have killed them to actually show a picture of the people who played Picards brother and nephew on the show?I always wished there was a scene in this where Kirk got to see Klingons serving on the bridge. Given how Klingons killed his son, it was something that would have been very interesting. Yeah. Kirk never got to see the ship. Kinda like they never put Spock on The Enterprise even if he did feature in one episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Only Bones got to see it up close! And Scotty, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 It's pointless to read bb's reviews they are so poor. He's the same as Indy4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I have never seen this movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The Enterprise-D got massive new Holosuites installed since "All Good Things...", along with handrails on the bridge, and Deep Space Nine uniforms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I've seen 1-6, 8-9, 11-12.I watched 1-4 countless times growing up, but have probably only seen 5 and 6 one or two times each. I remember 6's theatrical run but I think I saw it for the first time at home (either a rental tape, Pay Per View, or maybe even not till it hit HBO). I don't think I ever saw 5 until Paramount started putting them all out on DVD when I was in college. I bought 1-4 then rented 5 and 6 for whatever reason.For some reason I just had no interesting in seeing 7, though I did love "All Good Things...". (I used to watch TNG with my dad every Sunday during it's initial run).In fact, I've seen "All Good Things..." several times since it's initial airing, and it really holds up, it's one of the better episodes. It's funny, it was shot more or less at the same time as Generations, and for whatever reason got the way better script (from what I've read). Almost like they should have swapped which was the theatrical movie and which was the final episode of the show!First Contact was the first Trek film I saw in the theater. I remember going opening night with my best friend, who at that point was a huge Trekkie. I remember once we arrived another friend of his, who I didn't know, was there too, and that irked me.I never was compelled to see 9 and 10 on the big screen at all. I eventually saw Insurrection on DVD while in college, and kinda liked the actiony element from what I remember, but I don't really remember much about it at really.Then the JJ reboot movies I've seen a ton of times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I never understood how Generations and AGT were filmed together because of how much shorter Riker's hair was in Generations, which made it spike up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I had read that some of the DS9 uniforms were from other actors... IE: Jonathan Frakes uniform was actually Avery Brooks uniform but since his arms were longer that's why he had the sleeves rolled up. Also that for LeVar Burton that was Colm Meaney's uniform.Ya I think the Nexus bits is what shot this film in its foot so to speak. Over all it wasn't too bad of a film, at least they finally got rid of the Duras sisters.We also ended up getting a really good score for McCarthy and the only Star Trek FILM score from him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 On the bright side, after this strangely endearing but deeply flawed film, you're in for a solid treat. I would say, arguably, Star Trek's last great outing. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Not everyone got the memo about the uniforms. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 One problem with the TNG movies is that they completely screw up continuity with the TV series. If we just lowered the production values of Generations and made everything look more like the TV show, it might actually pass for some kind of weird TNG two-parter. However...a problem I've always had with this flick is that the characters are all fucking miserable. It's awful. Everyone is stoic, there's little to no interaction between the crew that feels remotely correct or doesn't make me want to slit my wrists. At least, not until the very end of the movie when Data finds Spot and Picard and Riker are finally more in character. Worst of all, they clearly had no idea how to handle Kirk's character and the eventual meeting between the Captains is just embarrassing. Picard comes off like a total dweeb and I'm not sure what the fuck all this Antonia cooking eggs shit is about. What the fuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 One problem with the TNG movies is that they completely screw up continuity with the TV series. If we just lowered the production values of Generations and made everything look more like the TV show, it might actually pass for some kind of weird TNG two-parter. However...a problem I've always had with this flick is that the characters are all fucking miserable. It's awful. Everyone is stoic, there's little to no interaction between the crew that feels remotely correct or doesn't make me want to slit my wrists. At least, not until the very end of the movie when Data finds Spot and Picard and Riker are finally more in character. Worst of all, they clearly had no idea how to handle Kirk's character and the eventual meeting between the Captains is just embarrassing. Picard comes off like a total dweeb and I'm not sure what the fuck all this Antonia cooking eggs shit is about. What the fuck?I actually agree with that.BTW also for the uniforms the only two actors who got custom made DS9 uniforms to properly fit themselves was Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner...go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 When are people gonna realize that "Generations" is shite, from begining to end?Malcolm McDowell even had a major falling-out with Paramount because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 When are people gonna realize that "Generations" is shite, from begining to end?Malcolm McDowell even had a major falling-out with Paramount because of it.That's just your opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Malcolm McDowell's an asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Malcolm mcdonald plays sssoron Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Seriously, listen to the guy in interviews and tell me I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 What is funny about BB's review is that in the Animated Return of the King, Sauron is pronounced Soarin' or Soran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Riker fell in love with a genderless chick named Soron in Season Five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Amy from The A Team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Damn they made her daggy looking in The X-Files. I had no idea how good she looked in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 That episode is probably TNG's most controversial to this day. I still don't know how to feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 No subtext at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 That episode is probably TNG's most controversial to this day. I still don't know how to feel about it.Torture is bad!What's controversial about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's one of those few awkward LGBT moments in Star Trek. I don't know. I think Riker was out of character, I didn't like the ending. The casting of that broad, obviously a broad, as a genderless character was a copout.Whenever people bring up Trek's apparent homophobia, I will always reference Odo and Kira. Odo didn't have a gender and was just a liquid thing that took the form of a humanoid. Odo could have been anything. Odo and Kira couldn't even link like others of Odo's race. Yet, their love transcended all that. For that and other reasons, they are the greatest romance in Star Trek history. I'm drunk, but I fucking know I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Odo and Kira? Really??As for Riker, I thought it was in-character. That bloke would root anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Odo/Kira > Everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm liking Deanna's nice, big tits in Man of the People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 WHAT IS THIS?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Odo with Kira did nothing to soften the public's squeamishness toward seeing homosexuality on the TV. Rene Auberjoinois is a man and Nana Visitor is a woman. Whether Odo could be a sneaker or a dog or a Playboy Playmate was immaterial because he presented himself nearly all the time as a man to the audience. When did Star Trek start embracing same sex relationships? When Dax kissed his old spouse, when they happened to be in female Trill bodies and kissed. That was an interesting concept, which steamrolled right through the barrier Doctor Crusher put up when she encountered a Trill who went through the same kind of "sex change." Maybe they wanted us to see that Trills are more progressive than humans, and the Jadzia issue, storywise, had nothing to do with homosexuality at all, but rather past lives and loves. We just got to see Terry Farrell kiss a girl and like it. And of course, what can you say about Intendent Kira. But yes, Riker should have been cast opposite a TS or androgynous man instead of the woman in that episode, if they wanted to promote that agenda. And of course, that episode was, what, twenty years before Orange Is the New Black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 WHAT IS THIS?!Honk honk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Odo with Kira did nothing to soften the public's squeamishness toward seeing homosexuality on the TV. Rene Auberjoinois is a man and Nana Visitor is a woman. Whether Odo could be a sneaker or a dog or a Playboy Playmate was immaterial because he presented himself nearly all the time as a man to the audience. When did Star Trek start embracing same sex relationships? When Dax kissed his old spouse, when they happened to be in female Trill bodies and kissed. That was an interesting concept, which steamrolled right through the barrier Doctor Crusher put up when she encountered a Trill who went through the same kind of "sex change." Maybe they wanted us to see that Trills are more progressive than humans, and the Jadzia issue, storywise, had nothing to do with homosexuality at all, but rather past lives and loves. We just got to see Terry Farrell kiss a girl and like it. And of course, what can you say about Intendent Kira. But yes, Riker should have been cast opposite a TS or androgynous man instead of the woman in that episode, if they wanted to promote that agenda. And of course, that episode was, what, twenty years before Orange Is the New Black?I can't disagree with this.As for the postulation that Riker would hook up with anything that moves, I've always disagreed with this. I'm not saying he didn't bang other women during the course of the show, but it was obvious that he favored Deanna and always wanted to get back together with her. I typically find it impossible to believe that characters would fall in love on an episode of a TV show, especially in Star Trek, where it's rarely, if ever, done well. A cute exception to the rule is the Picard/Daren episode, but then it's mostly crap like the one where Jadzia falls in love with the Apollo 13 mission control guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Most Star Trek love episodes dont really work. It's the typical main character falls in love with hot guest star stuff.DS9 did do well with the romances that lasted more then 1 minute though. Sisko/Kassidy. Worf/Dax. Kira/Odo. Rom/Leeta.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 ExactlyDS9 > all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now