'Star Wars' - the classical soundtrack

MSM · January 24, 2009

Here's a thread on the classical music and film music that has inspired John Williams to write his 'Star Wars - A New Hope' score.

There are several examples which have served as a temp track. Here we will make an attempt at reconstructing the temp soundtrack by finding out which pieces are most likely to have served as an example to Williams in certain cues.

We can do similar threads for different movies. Please use this thread only to discuss 'SW - A New Hope'.

Here is what we have come up with so far:

1) Main Title: King's Row 'Main Title' (Korngold) (Luke's Theme)/The Planets - 'Neptune' (Holst)

2) Rebel Blockade Runner: The Planets - 'Mars' (Holst)

3) Imperial Attack: 'The Throne Room' from The Sea Hawk (Korngold) (Rebel Fanfare)

4) The Dune Sea of Tatooine: 'Rite of Spring' part 3 (Stravinksy)

5) Jawa Sandcrawler: 'Rite of Spring' part 4 (Stravinsky)

6) The Moisture Farm: 'March' from 'Love for Three Oranges' (Prokofiev)

7) The Hologram: ??

8) Binary Sunset: King's Row 'Main Title' (Korngold) (Luke's Theme)/'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/'The Throne Room' from The Sea Hawk (Korngold) (Rebel Fanfare)

9) Landspeeder Search: ??

10) Attack of the Sand People: ??

11) Tales of a Jedi Knight: 'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/'The Planets - Mars' (Holst) (Darth Vader's motif)

12) Learn about the Force: 'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)

13) Burning Homestead: King's Row 'Main Title' (Korngold) (Luke's Theme)/'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/The Planets - 'Mars' (Holst) (Darth Vader's motif)/ ??

14) Mos Eisley Spaceport: 'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/ ??

15) Cantina Band 1&2: ??

16) Princess Leia Theme: ?? Remains the big question!!

17) The Millennium Falcon: ??

18) Imperial Cruiser Pursuit: ??

19) Destruction of Alderaan: ??

20) The Death Star: The Planets - 'Mars' (Holst)

21) Stormtroopers: ??

22) Wookie Prisoner: ??

23) Detention Block Ambush: ??

24) Shootout in the Cell Bay: ??

25) Dianoga: ??

26) The Trash Compactor: ??

27) The Tractor Beam: ??

28) Chasm Crossfire: ??

29) Ben Kenobi's Death: 'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/ ??

30) Tie Fighter Attack: ??

31) Launch from the Fourth Moon: ??

32) X-Wings Draw Fire: 'The Quest - Scene 1: Outside the House of Archimago' (Walton)/'Battle in the Air' from Battle of Britain (Walton)

33) Use the Force: 'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/ ??

34) The Throne Room: 'Symphony no. 9' fourth movement (Dvorak) (Ben's Theme)/'March and Music for Siegfried' from Battle of Britain (Walton)

35) End Title: King's Row 'Main Title' (Korngold) (Luke's Theme)/'The Throne Room' from The Sea Hawk (Korngold) (4-note downward counterpoint and fanfare ending)

Romão · January 24, 2009

I always had the feeling the Throne Room originated from something a bit more "english", like some coronation march from Elgar or Walton.

Quintus · January 24, 2009

Doesn't it say in the anthology booklet that Lucas asked for something which sounded like Land of Hope and Glory, for The Throne Room?

MissPadmé · January 24, 2009

-Main Title - The King's Row Main Title (Korngold)

-'Rebel Blockade Runner' - The Plantes, Mars - Holst (the first ff tutti build up, and the final brass chords!!)

-'Stormtrooper Motiv' - The Planets, Mars - Tuba Solo in the middle

MSM · January 24, 2009

Doesn't it say in the anthology booklet that Lucas asked for something which sounded like Land of Hope and Glory, for The Throne Room?

Middle section of 'Throne Room': Land of Hope and Glory (Elgar)

Datameister · January 24, 2009

The Planets, Mars - Tuba Solo in the middle

Technically, that's tenor tuba.

MissPadmé · January 24, 2009

The Planets, Mars - Tuba Solo in the middle
Technically, that's tenor tuba.

I just watched the video on youtube.. yes you are right, pretty neat instrument

Marian Schedenig · January 24, 2009

Then there's the short Psycho bit on the Death Star. But I think we've listed most of the recogniseable "suggestions" now.

Datameister · January 24, 2009

Yup. What to do about the remaining 80% of the score?

MSM · January 24, 2009

Yup. What to do about the remaining 80% of the score?

The liner notes also talk about Rosza's score for Ben Hur. Is it used anywhere obviously?

MissPadmé · January 24, 2009

Well the Concert Version of Here they come - starts like Ride of the Valkyres (Wagner)

pixie_twinkle · January 24, 2009

Obvious one this, but the destruction of the Death Star sounds like the ending of Mars: The Bringer of War.

Datameister · January 24, 2009

I disagree. Loud orchestral rhythmic figures do not a Mars clone make.

MSM · January 24, 2009

Another one:

- 'Star Wars Main Title' and 'The Throne Room' development (4-note downward counterpoint lines): The Throne Room from Sea Hawk (Korngold)

- Rebel Fanfare: The Throne Room from Sea Hawk (Korngold)

MissPadmé · January 24, 2009

I disagree. Loud orchestral rhythmic figures do not a Mars clone make.

LOOL have you ever listeed to star wars? and Mars it is the SAME ending, more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!

The chords are the same, you can even paste Mars over star wars and it matches!

whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.

MSM what tracks in seahawk??

MSM · January 24, 2009

I disagree. Loud orchestral rhythmic figures do not a Mars clone make.
LOOL have you ever listeed to star wars? and Mars it is the SAME ending, more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!
The chords are the same, you can even paste Mars over star wars and it matches!
whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.
MSM what tracks in seahawk??

It's called The Throne Room! (At least on the LSO/Previn recording that I have.)

MissPadmé · January 24, 2009

I disagree. Loud orchestral rhythmic figures do not a Mars clone make.
LOOL have you ever listeed to star wars? and Mars it is the SAME ending, more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!
The chords are the same, you can even paste Mars over star wars and it matches!
whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.
MSM what tracks in seahawk??
It's called The Throne Room! (At least on the LSO/Previn recording that I have.)

Ahh just listened to it on Itines. It is part of the Suite.. true: both of your examples are correct.

You should place our finds in yourfirst post and make a somehow chronological list

ChuckM · January 24, 2009

Yup. What to do about the remaining 80% of the score?
The liner notes also talk about Rosza's score for Ben Hur. Is it used anywhere obviously?

Not sure about the original trilogy, but in TPM, "The Flag Parade" is pretty obviously based on "Parade of the Charioteers."

Datameister · January 24, 2009

LOOL have you ever listeed to star wars?

Obviously not...I mean, what kind of John Williams fan would do that? Star Wars certainly wasn't the first film score in my house or anything...

and Mars

Again, obviously not. "The Planets" certainly wasn't the first orchestral piece I ever listened to repeatedly for enjoyment or anything...

it is the SAME ending

Actually, it's not. I just re-listened to both to make sure my memory wasn't coloring my perceptions, and it's indeed a lot closer than I remembered it being, and almost certainly the result of more temp tracking, but the chords are different. Same tonic and same top note, but different harmonic structure in between. Different tempo. Different feel. Different rhythm - some similarities, yes, but different.

more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!

Yes.

The chords are the same

No.

whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.

Perhaps your ears are not as well trained as mine.

Marian Schedenig · January 25, 2009

The mentioned ostinatos are very much reminiscent of those in Mars. Exception Williams adds a few more measures of his own in the trench run score. (Horner later went on and copied Williams' version and added more stuff of his own for Aliens, sending it completely over the top)

deleted account · January 25, 2009

Williams himself cited Prokofiev's "Love of Three Oranges" as inspiration for the Jawa theme, even though it wasn't actually temp'd into the film

indy4 · January 25, 2009

0:55 of "The Death Star/The Stormtroopers" is structured very similiar to the climax of "Mars."

Delorean90 · January 25, 2009

Am I the only one having a tough time hearing the Stravinsky similarities?

Datameister · January 25, 2009

The Jawa music sounds only distantly related to Stravinsky to my ear, but the Dune Sea passage sounds like a definite product of "temp love" to me.

Delorean90 · January 25, 2009

Maybe I was listening to the wrong part, then. I'm not too familiar with "The Rite of Spring."

Datameister · January 25, 2009

My recording of "The Rite of Spring" is divided into two parts, and the passage in question starts the second one. It's not identical or anything, but it's quite similar. In my heavily biased opinion, "The Dune Sea of Tatooine" works much better in the film than that wonderful Stravinsky passage would have, but again...heavily biased. I wasn't introduced to "The Right of Spring" until a year or two ago, but I've been enjoying the score to Star Wars for ages.

Jacob · January 25, 2009

Which pieces have served as temp track for which cues?

Um, Born Free?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Free_(song)

MSM · January 25, 2009

Which pieces have served as temp track for which cues?
Um, Born Free?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Free_(song)

MissPadmé · January 25, 2009

more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!
Yes.
The chords are the same
No.
whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.
Perhaps your ears are not as well trained as mine.

Ok I meant it was a fact that you could overlayStar WARS with Mars and it matches.. THATS a fact. I don't know how well trained your ears are, but not to well if you deny that the mars climax chords and blockade runner aren't the same chords

Mars:--------C G Ab Db F G-----Dd G

Star Wars : C G -----Db F G-Ab Db G C

you can invert the notes of a chord as much as you want, it still is the same harmony, wther the first and the fifth are one octave or 5 octaves apart. of course it will sound different, but the harmony stays the same - this isn't even the case with Star Wars and Mars.

the one difference is: Mars - the chord stays the same Star Wars: Williams keeps douling notes in higher octaves as abuild up.

The notes and the Harmony are the same

Mr. Breathmask · January 25, 2009

The mentioned ostinatos are very much reminiscent of those in Mars. Exception Williams adds a few more measures of his own in the trench run score. (Horner later went on and copied Williams' version and added more stuff of his own for Aliens, sending it completely over the top)

If you want to hear a lift of the end of the trench run in another score, listen to Die Hard 2.

MissPadmé · January 25, 2009

When editing a film a temporary music score is often used to gain a feel for rhythm, pacing and to
provide a composer with an understanding of the mood a director wants conveyed in music. During
editing of Star Wars cues from King’s Row, The Adventures of Robin Hood, Ben-Hur, The Battle
of Britain, Prince Valiant and The Bride of Frankenstein, together with classical music by Holst,
Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Bartok and Elgar, was either directly used or cited to communicate the right
musical feelings. Williams saw the temporary music track as inspiration to develop his own
swashbuckling music that shared the brassy and heroic sound of film composer Erich Wolfgang
Korngold’s 1930s and 40s films for Warner Brothers, in particular King’s Row.

from the analysis: the recording of star wars, chris marlone

hmm interesting is anyone aware of similarities between bride of frankenstein and star wars? f.e.

TownerFan · January 25, 2009

I think some of the similarities some of you detected are a bit stretched, especially if aimed to find direct quotations into Williams' own themes and motifs. It's clear that Williams fashioned a score with MANY clear inspirations mainly from the classical repertoire and also some classic film scores, but generally it's all melded into a brilliant "pastiche" kind of work. The classical lifts/insipirations are quite a few: apart from the already cited Holst and Stravinsky, I always thought Williams took some inspiration from Bartòk's "Concerto for Orchestra", Shostakovich's ballet scores and Prokofiev's stylings. There are also several William Walton-inspired pieces (the "Throne Room" is kind of similar to Walton's "Orb and Sceptre" ceremonial march, while the Death Star trench battle has some "Battle of Britain" flavour).

The great thing is that, nevertheless all these classical influences, Williams was able to produce something quite unique and original. Yes, it's a pastiche, but one that is crafted with gusto, intelligence and artistry.

Marian Schedenig · January 25, 2009

If you want to hear a lift of the end of the trench run in another score, listen to Die Hard 2.

There you can see how much impression that score left on me - the only thing I recall is the horrid Finlandia rendition (and I have the CD).

Datameister · January 25, 2009

Ok I meant it was a fact that you could overlayStar WARS with Mars and it matches.. THATS a fact. I don't know how well trained your ears are, but not to well if you deny that the mars climax chords and blockade runner aren't the same chords
Mars:--------C G Ab Db F G-----Dd G
Star Wars : C G -----Db F G-Ab Db G C
you can invert the notes of a chord as much as you want, it still is the same harmony, wther the first and the fifth are one octave or 5 octaves apart. of course it will sound different, but the harmony stays the same - this isn't even the case with Star Wars and Mars.
the one difference is: Mars - the chord stays the same Star Wars: Williams keeps douling notes in higher octaves as abuild up.
The notes and the Harmony are the same

Now you're talking about the blockade runner scene, which I never contested one bit. They are indeed the same chord, as far as I can tell. We were talking about the Death Star's destruction, which uses a slightly different chord - from the sound of it, C#M with G in the bass and on top, or something closely related to that. Yes, some of the notes are the same, as I said, and the overall effect is quite similar, and I'm sure it was the result of the temp track. But they're not identical.

Marian Schedenig · January 25, 2009

Nobody said they were identical.

Datameister · January 25, 2009

Nobody said they were identical.

The initial claim was that they were very similar, which I initially disagreed with because I thought they were only fairly similar. Then I conceded that I was wrong upon re-listening to both passages. But then MissPadme went so far as to say that they were "the SAME", which is quite simply not true.

MissPadmé · January 25, 2009

Nobody said they were identical.
The initial claim was that they were very similar, which I initially disagreed with because I thought they were only fairly similar. Then I conceded that I was wrong upon re-listening to both passages. But then MissPadme went so far as to say that they were "the SAME", which is quite simply not true.

Oh I was talking about blockade being the same!

The deathstar destruction is just a variation of the chords... so basically they have same tonal root

in fact its more like that.. they are the SAME chord as the Mars chors ONLY with G at base instead of C, that's why they sound so dofferent.. trust me

MSM · January 25, 2009

I am also pretty sure of the following:

- 'Han Solo and the Princess': Love theme from Romeo and Julia (Tschaikovsky).

It's only inspiration in this case, but IMO the counterpoint reveals it obviously. Check for yourself:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9VMCiewc7mE&...feature=related

Datameister · January 25, 2009

Now that is a stretch, unless I'm missing something obvious.

MissPadmé · January 25, 2009

I am also pretty sure of the following:
- 'Han Solo and the Princess': Love theme from Romeo and Julia (Tschaikovsky).
It's only inspiration in this case, but IMO the counterpoint reveals it obviously. Check for yourself:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9VMCiewc7mE&...feature=related

yes the two-note figure is pure tschaikovsy.. but the theme is actually

Days of Wine and Roses (only the beginning)

Luke Skywalker · January 25, 2009

I disagree. Loud orchestral rhythmic figures do not a Mars clone make.
LOOL have you ever listeed to star wars? and Mars it is the SAME ending, more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!
The chords are the same, you can even paste Mars over star wars and it matches!
whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.

I have been saying this from the very beggining everytime people compare the death star destruction with Mars.

I cant believe that notion is so widespread and they overlook the striking resemblance of Rebel blockade runner.

MSM · January 25, 2009

I am also pretty sure of the following:
- 'Han Solo and the Princess': Love theme from Romeo and Julia (Tschaikovsky).
It's only inspiration in this case, but IMO the counterpoint reveals it obviously. Check for yourself:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9VMCiewc7mE&...feature=related
yes the two-note figure is pure tschaikovsy.. but the theme is actually
Days of Wine and Roses (only the beginning)

Oh yes, I had forgotten!

Btw it's ESB and not New Hope

Now that is a stretch, unless I'm missing something obvious.

The inspiration source is obvious (the 2-note counterpoint); the thematic material is different.

I disagree. Loud orchestral rhythmic figures do not a Mars clone make.
LOOL have you ever listeed to star wars? and Mars it is the SAME ending, more in the blockade runner than the death star destruction!
The chords are the same, you can even paste Mars over star wars and it matches!
whether you disagree or not, it is a fact.
MSM what tracks in seahawk??
It's called The Throne Room! (At least on the LSO/Previn recording that I have.)
Ahh just listened to it on Itines. It is part of the Suite.. true: both of your examples are correct.
You should place our finds in yourfirst post and make a somehow chronological list

I made an attempt See OP.

Nick Parker · January 25, 2009

I am also pretty sure of the following:
- 'Han Solo and the Princess': Love theme from Romeo and Julia (Tschaikovsky).
It's only inspiration in this case, but IMO the counterpoint reveals it obviously. Check for yourself:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9VMCiewc7mE&...feature=related

Yeesh. I prefer Prokofiev's....

EDIT: Speaking of "Montagues and Capulets", I think I found Elliot Goldenthal's inspiration for "Two Face Three Step"....

Romão · January 25, 2009

EDIT: Speaking of "Montagues and Capulets", I think I found Elliot Goldenthal's inspiration for "Two Face Three Step"....

The film music most clearly shows that particular Prokofiev influence is the theme from Brothers Grimm

Nick Parker · January 25, 2009

I have actually never listened to that before. And I hope that is not seen as a negative statement above, as it was not. "Two Face Three Step" is my favorite Track on the album, and I love it.

Jarbas · January 26, 2009

Ok, guys here's the real source of Williams' inspiration:

Rebel Fanfare and The Imperial Attack: The Globetrotters from A Guide for the Married Man - 4:39 to the end.

MainTitle from Jaws: Main Title from The Poseidon Adventure - First ten seconds and 1:30 to the end :mellow:

MissPadmé · January 26, 2009

Rebel Fanfare and The Imperial Attack: The Globetrotters from A Guide for the Married Man - 4:39 to the end.

naahhhhhh not really

Jarbas · January 26, 2009

Rebel Fanfare and The Imperial Attack: The Globetrotters from A Guide for the Married Man - 4:39 to the end.
naahhhhhh not really

I insist, Rebel Fanfare in 4:39 - 4:33 and Imperial Attack in 4:44 to the end. They're embryos who turned adults in Star Wars! :mellow:

Marian Schedenig · January 26, 2009

I forgot... the Rebel fanfare is from Dukas' Sorcerer's Apprentice.

Romão · January 26, 2009

Is it? Could ypu please provide track times?

'Star Wars' - the classical soundtrack

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