When John Williams visited the Battlestar Galactica recording sessions...

[johnbijl 0]

John Bijl. Duurzaam verslaafd aan filmmuziek. @johnbijl www.johnbijl.com/nl/ En voor je het vraagt: ik kom veel in Noord Holland ;-)

[Faleel 5,347]

I have a feeling someone is going to come in and say "english only guys, rules are the rules"

[Jay 37,359]

Interesting thread bump...

[Ren 75]

Yes, that was strrrrange

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

yeah strange behaviour from some random guy

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

who was that stanger?

[Wojo 2,453]

who was that stanger?

John Bijl. Duurzaam verslaafd aan filmmuziek. @johnbijl www.johnbijl.com/nl/ En voor je het vraagt: ik kom veel in Noord Holland ;-)

"John Bijl (Axe). Durable addicted to film music. @ john ax www.johnbijl.com/nl/ And before you ask: I come in many North Holland;-)"

This "johnbijl" has 150 posts at Intrada's forum, but his account did not exist here until less than 24 hours ago. He created the account here specifically to point out that he took offense to being called a random poster eighteen months ago.

[KK 3,307]

Well thanks for the profile work Wojo.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

John Bijl is also a frequent poster on FSM. Don't be so fucking paranoïde Chaac.

[Wojo 2,453]

John Bijl is also a frequent poster on FSM. Don't be so fucking paranoïde Chaac.

Oh, well, since he's such a cornerstone of that fine community, I'll remove the condescending remarks from my previous post. I had no idea he was so unrandom.

[skyy38 21]

I remember the uproar when Galactica premiered. I've seen worse ripoffs, Starcrash anyone?

Plus outside of the music, Galactica wasn't that good. I think part of the problem, the lawsuit, was that John Dykstra and several ILM members worked on it after a falling out with Lucas on Star Wars.

After STAR WARS, Lucas was newly minted money, and feeling HIGH, after so many years of struggle........

WHAT "uproar" when Galactica premeired? "Galactica" Following STAR WARS was no different than when The Wild, Wild West followed James Bond.

You're comparing Star Crash to Galactica???? Your frame of reference must have been *limited*, to say the least....

George Lucas made STAR WARS with all of the tales that were at HIS disposal, at the time..........

The lovingly detailed models......seen before in 2001: A Space Odessy

C3P0, formed as a MALE doing a female-Galaxina from METROPOLIS......Oh yeah, it was decide that 3PO would do better as GAY, than as a "used car salesman"......(for further proof of this, look to the MAD Magazine version, where R2 refers to 3PO as a "fag robot".

And SOMEWHERE in my basement archives, I have PROOF that the DEATH STAR wasn't a LUCAS construct!

It doesn't matter that Dykstra and Company had a "falling out" with Lucas. Ralph McQuarrie, who did production paintings for STAR WARS also worked on Galactica, YET returned to Lucas when EMPIRE was getting started.....

ALL of these TALES begin to mix and mingle into eachother, until WE don't know the "truth" anymore.....

Yeah, I think it all got a bit blown out of proportion. Lucas said he didn't want any part of Fox's plagiarism lawsuit, but was unhappy that Dykstra and crew took all the techniques and equipment developed for SW and used it on BSG.

And Panavision *wept* when Lucas used THEM on HIS picture!!!

Stu Philips did a cracking job on the BSG theme, and while it captures the epic sound which SW is famous for; BSG sounds absolutely nothing like the Williams' piece. BSG is a great piece of music in its own right.

Stu Philips did a cracking job on the BSG theme, and while it captures the epic sound which SW is famous for; BSG sounds absolutely nothing like the Williams' piece. BSG is a great piece of music in its own right.

Seconded and damn straight! Mr. Phillips, like the rest of us was inspired by STAR WARS, but in the end, Stu was his own man!

I love the fact the theme was used in the new version as an colonial anthem. Nice touch.

Karol

I hated the fact that a "NEW VERSION" was invented..at all...................*laziness*

Very nice, though it does bring home that fact that the revamped BSG never had a theme anywere near as good.

NO WAY it could EVER have a theme as GOOD!!!!

NO WAY IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stu Phillips told this story also on an interview that appeared on an old FSM print magazine issue--he also said that he felt honoured when Williams performed the BSG theme in several concerts and recordings with the Boston Pops.

Also, Phillips collaborated with JW on some arranging on Gidget Goes to Rome.

I don't have to show up, at a fellow composers session, afraid that he's going to "rip me off". I, like Williams, am just too BIG for that type of nonsense.

If 20th or ANYONE had told me to audit the session, I would have told THEM (unlike Williams) to stick a splintery device up a certain part of their anatomy until they bled out!

Yes , STAR WARS was (still is) a cultural phenomenom,, but at the time, most people associated with it, just had too much excitement, shot up their panties! It was a shock that would eventually wear off, in time. Meanwhile, "copyrights" were being zealously enforced.

(Maybe Stravinsky should have returned from the dead and sued WIlliams over "The Desert"!!!!!)

Remember when everybody made a big deal about "The Passion Of The Christ"-how it should be an Easter Tradition on TV every spring...blah..blah...blah?

Don't hear much about THAT anymore...

AT the time though, Lucas was acting like someone was going to simultaneously rape his daughter AND steal his underwear!!!!

AND it's probably best that he's selling the SHIT. Maybe now, he can lose weight.....

As for the lawsuit, it was mainly about former ILM employees doing a similar kind of thing to SW using an equipment developed for this film. Additionally, Lucas thought of doing a TV show based on SW and he said BSG already "spoiled the market" with what he saw as a lesser product.

Karol

Another piece of LUCAS bullshit. WHY would he think of TV, when Empire was in the offing?

GALACTICA wasn't lesser product. I don't recall, recalling ANYTHING from STAR WARS when I watched GALACTICA. I took it for itself, on it's *own* merits....

Reading this thread makes me absolutely mad!!! What the fucking hell right do Williams and Lucas have to turn up at another's music session and declare that the music sounds nothing like Star Wars???!!! This a blatant abuse of privelege, and should NEVER have happened. At the very least, they should have waited (like everyone else!!!!!!!) to hear the music played with the visuals. I knew Lucas was greedy and jealous, but this... What a c**t.

With you on THIS issue, except that Mr. Williams would NOT have agreed to this.

Just because I scored STAR WARS *doesn't* mean you have ME for the next one-until I sign a contract, I AM a free citizen, and MY contract did NOT include "showing up at peers recording sessions, just to protect the interests of BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAHHHH!!!

It's not really that bad. For whatever reason, I thought it was the coolest thing to have Star Trek conducted by JW.

Especially as Mr. Williams worked for Mr, Goldsmith and *each* learned something from each other.....

Same here on both counts. That TMP theme is awful. Painful is accurate. Do you recall if your disc is encoded so that the Battlestar track cues up a fraction of a second too late, cutting off the very start? It always irritated me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqG0NYiaiJg

By the way, that Out of This World version of Battlestar Galactica is a direct result of Williams' visit to the recording sessions.

Stu Phillips:

Happily, John felt that I did not intentionally "lift" any of his music from the film. In 1983 John asked me to arrange a customized Galactica suite specifically for him and the Boston Pops to record.

Happily, Mr. Williams did NOT feel the stinging sensation in his arsehole as Stravinsky came back from the dead to reclaim "The Desert"

That's interesting, Karol. And it makes sense. The TV project Lucas was going to do became the novel of Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Author Alan Dean Foster revealed that it was originally written with limited sets in mind, as a television budget would confine their storytelling. As it was, Splinter became a published work only. Maybe if Galactica hadn't happened, Empire Strikes Back would've been delayed, or different than we know it, as resources would have been allocated to Star Wars on TV.

That's interesting but doesn't seem quite right. Do you have a source or a link? The reason that I ask is that Splinter of the Minds Eye was published in March of 78 and Battlestar Galactica came out later that year in September. That seems to discount the idea that BSG ruined Star Wars tv for Lucas so he turned Splinter into a book.

Seconded.......Lucas has countered himself many times.....

Oh and at the time, No matter WHO I am working for, I am STILL an independent contractor-NOT an "employee".....and NOT "work for hire"....

You can tell me what you *want* but NOT what I can *do*........

Do NOT tell me to show up at someone else's session, just because YOU are afraid that THEY are ripping YOU *off*.

Do NOT use me as a "tool" in your publicity campaign for same. If you are THAT paranoid, I would suggest a good psychiatrist.......

And if you piss me off enough, know good and well that The Rolling Stones are at the ready, to pick up where I .......left off....

Yeah ...right........STAR WARS without *me*, would be like John Holmes without a *penis*........

[gkgyver 1,645]

WHat the hell?

[Datameister 2,042]

That was a bizarre and extremely long-winded way of reviving this old topic.

That being said, I've just recently begun watching the show (both incarnations simultaneously, as a matter of fact). I'm definitely enjoying Stu Phillips' efforts. I agree that there isn't much that's musically derivative of Star Wars, though the anecdotes in this thread are certainly interesting.

Of course, the (original) show itself clearly draws inspiration from Star Wars, and the similarities are amplified simply by way of having been made in the same time period. Still, there's very little that's a direct lift. It's more about overall tone and visual effects.

Regarding the more recent reimagined series, I'm greatly enjoying it so far, but yeah...the music is night and day. The only thing that strikes me as somewhat inspired is the rather ruthlessly sexy music for the Cylons, Tricia Helfer's character in particular. It's perhaps not the most obvious choice, and it does a rather nice job of blending two contradictory perspectives on the Cylons.

Anyway, much of this post isn't really that apropos, but this thread DID just reappear out of nowhere...

[Wojo 2,453]

What a fucking whack job.

[Uni 306]

This is just a GUESS, but did you learn how to EXPRESS yourself in written form by reading COMIC BOOKS?!

I missed this discussion (happened during one of my "blank" periods around here), so I hafta get a word in now:

I grew up with the show as well. People sneer at it nowadays, but you have to remember BG was like having Star Wars at home in the days before VCRs and the like. That was no small deal at the time. And Stu Phillips gave it credibility in much the same way Williams gave SW substance—and certainly not by plagiarizing him, either. He didn't approach it like he was doing a second-rate T.V. show; he came to it like he was doing something for the cinema, and it shows. The opening title sequence—including the "There are those who believe. . . ." prologue—was the best opener for any television series ever. Looking back now, it was even better than the show deserved. Great stuff.

The Williams performance of the theme on Out Of This World is pretty good . . . but the conductor who nailed it just as well as Phillips himself was Erich Kunzel on Star Tracks. For a long time, that was the best available rendition of the theme, since Phillips' original score for the pilot episode played the theme much slower (not unlike Williams doing TMP, actually). Kunzel's opening burst had the same explosive power the show itself featured every week, which was simply spectacular.

- Uni

[skyy38 21]

Found this on the Intrada board, in the thread about Volume 1 of their Battlestar Galactica releases:

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3930

First some random poster said:

As long as we're trivia-ing

George Lucas and John Williams visited the recording sessions to see if the music wasn't a rip-off from Star Wars. Williams decided it wasn't, complimented Stu -- and left.

Then Stu Philips himself popped into the thread and said this:

To clarify the above statement posted by johnbijl... John Williams and Lionel Newman visited one of the BSG sessions. George Lucas DID NOT.

SP

To all of you who have posted here, yes... this is Stu Phillips saying Hi. And I thank you for your interest in the music of BSG.

Please do not hold John Williams at fault for visiting the BSG session. It was not his idea to do so. He was asked (ordered?) by the legal department of Fox to do this. John is too nice a person to have done this on his own. That is not his style. He is one of the nicest men I have met in this crazy business of music.

SP

The DEATH STAR was NOT of Lucas' *original* invention either.....and I have PROOF!!!

[Wojo 2,453]

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[Uni 306]

Seriously? Conspiracy theories about Star Wars?

Call Oliver Stone. . . .

(And what precisely in that block of quotes were you referencing, anyway? I thought this was a discussion about Williams' connection to BG.)

- Uni

[Ollie 1,059]

John Williams copied parts of the score from Ice Cold In Alex.......

[skyy38 21]

George Lucas-the GREAT original!

He tried to sue GALACTICA, but failed, because HE "borrowed" ideas from Universals SILENT RUNNING among others.

BIGGEST RIP?

Speeder Bikes being able to thrust BACKWARDS in RETURN OF THE JEDI.

Just like the COLONIAL VIPERS!

And Threepio was borne from Galaxina.

And from MY personal archives, the DEATH STAR was borrowed too! FROM THE EARLY SIXTIES!

George Lucas was SO paranoid as to tell/compel/ WHATEVER John Williams to attend the GALACTICA SESSIONS just to make sure THEY weren't ripping HIIM off?

Really?

George, you didn't invent the wheel-you just brought it back for a new audience.


Same for John Williams.

For all of you that maintain that THE IMPERIAL MARCH was based on MARS-THE BRINGER OF WAR, you need to realize something.

One, THE IMPERIAL MARCH was borne of the PEDAL TONES of the IMPERIAL MOTIVE from STAR WARS.

Two. And perhaps the IMPERIAL MOTIVE was ALSO borne from THIS!

And the Main Theme For Star Wars was based on this:

NOW, if I was John Williams, back in the day, and was asked to SPY on a colleague, just because of YOUR paranoia, I would have replied with TWO answers.


One. Stu is my friend and totally original. How DARE you put me in this position!

Two. Get the Rolling Stones to do the soundtrack for "Empire" because I QUIT!!!!!

[Wojo 2,453]

[Thor 7,504]

Ehm......alrighty then.

Also, Phillips collaborated with JW on some arranging on Gidget Goes to Rome.

Phillips only did arrangement on the songs (which Williams was not involved with), I don't think he arranged any of Williams' score (even though Williams' score sometimes references the main melody of the "Gegetta" opening song that Phillips arranged). When I met Stu in 2012, he said he wasn't a close friend of Williams, but that he had known him ever since those days; so I'm guessing the respect was mutual also when Williams visited the BSG scoring stage.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

George Lucas-the GREAT original!

He tried to sue GALACTICA, but failed, because HE "borrowed" ideas from Universals SILENT RUNNING among others.

BIGGEST RIP?

Speeder Bikes being able to thrust BACKWARDS in RETURN OF THE JEDI.

Just like the COLONIAL VIPERS!

And Threepio was borne from Galaxina.

And from MY personal archives, the DEATH STAR was borrowed too! FROM THE EARLY SIXTIES!

George Lucas was SO paranoid as to tell/compel/ WHATEVER John Williams to attend the GALACTICA SESSIONS just to make sure THEY weren't ripping HIIM off?

Really?

George, you didn't invent the wheel-you just brought it back for a new audience.

Same for John Williams.

For all of you that maintain that THE IMPERIAL MARCH was based on MARS-THE BRINGER OF WAR, you need to realize something.

One, THE IMPERIAL MARCH was borne of the PEDAL TONES of the IMPERIAL MOTIVE from STAR WARS.

Two. And perhaps the IMPERIAL MOTIVE was ALSO borne from THIS!

And the Main Theme For Star Wars was based on this:

NOW, if I was John Williams, back in the day, and was asked to SPY on a colleague, just because of YOUR paranoia, I would have replied with TWO answers.

One. Stu is my friend and totally original. How DARE you put me in this position!

Two. Get the Rolling Stones to do the soundtrack for "Empire" because I QUIT!!!!!

I've got ants in my pants! I'm discombobulated! Give me a calmative!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Slow down, sir! You're going to give yourself skin failure!

[peter.anschutz 43]

Interesting how this of all threads keeps getting revived literally years after going inactive...

[skyy38 21]

I remember the uproar when Galactica premiered. I've seen worse ripoffs, Starcrash anyone?

Plus outside of the music, Galactica wasn't that good. I think part of the problem, the lawsuit, was that John Dykstra and several ILM members worked on it after a falling out with Lucas on Star Wars.

Dykstra, basically, was the only one who never returned.

Richard Edlund, Ralph McQuarrie, Richard Edlund et all, returned to Work on ESB.

Yeah, I think it all got a bit blown out of proportion. Lucas said he didn't want any part of Fox's plagiarism lawsuit, but was unhappy that Dykstra and crew took all the techniques and equipment developed for SW and used it on BSG.

Oh! And I'm sure Dykstra was equally happy when Lucas continued to profit from HIS R+D on the motiion control system, for future Star Wars movies.

Holdridge's 'The Beastmaster' and Jarre's 'Ghost' however do sound like BSG.

I have a big soft spot for the show, but it certainly wasn't very good outside of the music. Adama's Theme was brilliant. It's a shame McCreary couldn't do anything near as good.

There was a Galactica-like theme on a Super Bowl Telecast ( can't remember which one) playing during the introduction of one of the teams, I believe.

I'm not at home where I can look, but I believe the story of Williams' and Newman's visit to the recordings was published in the liner notes to the 25th Anniversary edition of the BSG Soundtrack

It is in the liner notes for the new Intrada release.

I love the music. Loved the show when it first came out (I was in high school then) and find it to be totally unwatchable now.

Thank God I'll never have your affliction, as concerns Galactica.....

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Does this mean I can respond to anti-Zimmer posts from ten years ago and no one will mind?

[nightscape94 965]

That guy's on a roll!

[Uni 306]

Interesting how this of all threads keeps getting revived literally years after going inactive...

That happens from time to time. Some people don't have much interest in the current threads, so they bump old ones they liked.

That guy's on a roll!

Which tends to happen when you're going downhill. . . .

But hey, at least he knocked off the ALL CAPS thing.

[Sir Hilary Bray 235]

Well, as someone who joined recently (or relatively so compared to this thread) and a BSG78 fan, the thread's resurfacing is welcoming. Had no idea Williams checked out the recording sessions of the BSG series score.