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London or Los Angeles for Star Wars VII score? [UPDATE: It's Los Angeles]


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Where do you predict the Episode 7 score will be recorded?  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. Where do you predict the Episode 7 score will be recorded?

    • John Williams will conduct the London Symphony Orchestra in London
    • Another conductor will conduct the London Symphony Orchestra in London
    • John Williams will conduct the London Symphony Orchestra during their tour of the US
    • John Williams will conduct a Los Angeles based orchestra


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For years I've been hearing Hollywood session musicians are top notch, brilliant in sight reading etc etc and now you tell me something differently!

That's true...i dont understand it either...

Anyway I want the LSO and Williams conducting

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Personality?

An orchestra is an orchestra right? The quality is determined by their skill level. But i dont see how personality comes into it.

What personality does the LSO have?

From the cold, calculating and purely analytical point of view you're probably right.

But... this is a creative medium. And everybody knows you produce better work if you work in a familiar environment. Most of the time anyway.

Indiana Jones 4, Munich and some other score don't sound as good as the ones recorded with an established orchestra. Accurate and professional, but with no edge whatsoever.

Studio musicians are also used to perform film music with click-tracks and whatnot. Not sure how would they sound in a concert hall.

John Williams on LSO:

Karol

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From the cold, calculating and purely analytical point of view you're probably right.

Well, doesn't that end the debate then?

What is it about the performance of the LSO that gives them a certain unique character? I'm not talking recording venue, types of microphone, mike position, recording engineer, mixing etc. Just the performance.

I don't really see ow "playing with each other" for a long time makes a huge difference for an ensemble as big as a symphony orchestra. (for a pop group, band, string quartet etc it's different)

Now an orchestra working a long time with a particular conductor, so they know his particular technique, I can see how that makes a difference.

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It's not just a matter of personality, although that can also be important. If you're in an instrumental section, your job is to follow the first chair--however they decide to play a lick, you need to make sure you are consistent with them (unless you're specifically told not to). That's a lot easier if you're familiar with teh way they play.

For years I've been hearing Hollywood session musicians are top notch, brilliant in sight reading etc etc and now you tell me something differently!

Where in Tintin does the brass fail?

Here's some examples:

2:38 of "Sir Francis adn the Unicorn," trombones are late on the start and end points of the gliss (and, IMO, much too quiet)

5:43 of "Red Rackhams Curse And The Treasure," trumpets are late (you can hear the strings hit the impact well before)

Also, a lot of the trumpet interjections in the action cues are either out of sync with each other or late

There's also a REALLY jarring trombone mistake in "Jungle Chase" from KotCS. Starting at 3:06 of the OST version the trombones start to fall behind. By the end of their groove a couple seconds later, they are almost a beat off. That said I think overall KotCS has a pretty good performance.

I will say that some studio performances sound better than others (like KotCS > Tintin), and I would guess the reason is either time given to rehearse and/or complexity of the music. In Tintin the action is probably a little more complicated and less structured than KotCS, so some of these hits may take the players by surprise a little.

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Both TOD and KOTCS sound great. I dont hear any differences in the brass (for example) between those and Raiders.

Raider's version of the B section of the march is great and "growly", KOTCS sounds like tin can, TOD sounds a little softer.

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KotCs sounds pretty good

Oh I don't know. Surely there's anything wrong with William Ross conducting?

Karol

I'm starting to believe John Williams and William Ross are actually the same person. A bit like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Dr. Williams and Mr. Ross.

We've been mislead on some things. Maybe JW flew to London and conducted the score after all. It sure sounds like it

One day we will uncover the whole conspiracy

One thing I do notice on 1000$ headphones is that Williams recent scores tend to sound more "homogenous" and flatter than some recordings by other composers. The percussions lack bass and all the instruments seem bunched together

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KotCs sounds pretty good

Oh I don't know. Surely there's anything wrong with William Ross conducting?

Karol

I'm starting to believe John Williams and William Ross are actually the same person. A bit like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Dr. Williams and Mr. Ross.

We've been mislead on some things. Maybe JW flew to London and conducted the score after all. It sure sounds like it

If only I could find the 2002 e-mail from Warner Bros. that would confuse this matter even more...

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John Williams on LSO:

Well, this answers the Star Wars/film music and the LSO vs. studio orchestra debate perfectly, from someone better qualified than pretty much anyone on the planet. So there you go :)

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This thread's full of know-it-all rah-rah. I can't tell the difference between an LSO score and a score performed by orchestral freelancers in Hollywood. In fact, some of my favourite scores were recorded with Hollywood musicians.

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Wow, awesome stories!

Pretty amazing - it sounds like we might have never gotten the Princess Leia's Theme concert arrangement if Williams had not been so impressed by the LSO's horn performance!

BTW - It's Princess Leia, not Princess Leah :)

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Mooooore, Karelm. We want mooooore...

Kinda amusing to learn that one of the great romantic pieces of twentieth century film music only came to be out of half begrudgingly agreed overtime :D

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* The first cue they recorded was the End Credits and they all considered it very well written but also exhausting.

* Since the version of Princess Leia's theme is not in the film, after a long day of recording, they were exhausted

They accepted because the music was slower than a lot of what they had done that day with the end credits

Sounds like a bunch of lazy ass whiners!

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I thought the first cue recorded was chasm crossfire and then main title? According to the special edition liner notes and that pdf file from Chris Malone about recording the Star Wars saga.

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Perhaps they started with the end credits but didn't end up using that take and re-did it later. Those bits could be the first recorded pieces that ended up in the score proper.

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I just returned from playing with the Baltimore Symphony and was very excited to meet David Cripps - the principal horn of the London Symphony Orchestra from 1970 to 1983. He is THE Princess Leia horn soloist and played on all the original trilogy and Superman plus countless other great recordings from this period. A very charming fellow and we spent much time and wine talking about the original scoring sessions. Some interesting tidbits he mentioned:

* the original plan was not to use the LSO at all. It was to use London contracted players but since they are not paid a salary but rather service fees, they had a hole in their schedule for two weeks and they complained to then conductor/music director Andre Previn. Andre is friends with JW and suggested the use of LSO to remedy the schedule gap resulting in lost wages to the players when JW spoke to Andre about London contracted musicians. JW liked the ideas and ran it past the Star Wars producers and the rest is history.

* The first cue they recorded was the End Credits and they all considered it very well written but also exhausting. This served as a good introduction to the various themes. The general consensus was this was just a gig rather than history. They considered history as their recordings with Stravinsky, Claudio Aboddo, Stowkoski, Adrian Boult, William Walton conducting his Viola Concerto (he was drunk at the time and nearly incapacitated), etc. This gentleman had so many interesting stories to tell and each were shocking to me what this man had played such a major part in all of this. I'm trying to get him to write a memoir of his experiences. One funny story was with Leopold Stokowski (then in his late 90's) doing a studio session of a symphony where the entire time he was off by a bar. The end result is, he said the orchestra wasn't following him so they had to re-record the entire symphony due to his mistake.

* Since the version of Princess Leia's theme is not in the film, after a long day of recording, they were exhausted and JW asked the orchestra if they could just go 30 minutes overtime to do a reading of a version not in the film. JW wrote it specifically for David to play the horn solo. They accepted because the music was slower than a lot of what they had done that day with the end credits, etc. So they just read it once and then recorded it straight through in a single take.

* He remains personal friends with JW and had nothing to but good things to say about the whole experience with him.

It was absolutely fascinating to talk to him and he was very kind!

Awesome!! He needs to write a book!!!

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I fixed my memory lapse on calling it Princess Leah. Thanks for pointing that out. My thought on exactly what cue came first is this is the musicians point of view. Might not be 100% accurate but it is what he recalls. What I mean is that the end credit is quite complex and a lot of hard work so he might recall that as first if a simple cue preceded it (that might have felt to him like just another gig type of cue). Do note this is my opinion not his. This encounter with him was by coincidence. I play in orchestras and am a composer so was talking to his wife about a recent piece I composed that was in the "Star Wars" style when she mentioned her husband was the guy who was instrumental in the "Star Wars sound"! She revealed he was arriving that night from London and I told her my earliest theatrical memories included his performances. We talked for several days after since his wife and I played in the concert. We spoke of LSO brass - Maurice for example. LSO brass was outstanding but most of the principals have left/retired/moved on.

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From the cold, calculating and purely analytical point of view you're probably right.

Well, doesn't that end the debate then?

What is it about the performance of the LSO that gives them a certain unique character? I'm not talking recording venue, types of microphone, mike position, recording engineer, mixing etc. Just the performance.

I don't really see ow "playing with each other" for a long time makes a huge difference for an ensemble as big as a symphony orchestra. (for a pop group, band, string quartet etc it's different)

Now an orchestra working a long time with a particular conductor, so they know his particular technique, I can see how that makes a difference.

I think the LSO "sound" has much more to do with Abbey Road and the LSO players themselves than Shawn Murphy's mixing seeing as he has recorded in both London and Hollywood. For example, Anakins Betrayl in ROTS has that kind of English/Holst sound too it. It's hard to describe - maybe it could be due to Abbey Road Acoustics. What I do know is that music would not sound nearly as good if it were recorded in LA.

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I play in orchestras and am a composer

What is your instrument if I may ask?

Great stories, thanks!

Hi, I play the bass trombone.

Cheers

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I play in orchestras and am a composer

What is your instrument if I may ask?

Great stories, thanks!

Hi, I play the bass trombone.

Cheers

Cool!

word on the streets is this will be done at SONY LA

Not my first choice but I'm more than sure, it's going to be brilliant.

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word on the streets is this will be done at SONY LA

Source?

Rumour grew of a shadow in LA, whispers of a nameless fear. And the AFM perceived its time had now come.

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  • 2 months later...

That's good news, Data!

In the end, it's all up to JW. If he feels the LSO should be part of the score (and I think he does), I'm sure he'll make the effort to travel across the ocean and record the score with them.

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I'm betting this is done in LA. Given JW's desire to remain local and JJ's history with local musicians especially. I don't think that will at all be a bad thing. I think we'll know for sure quite soon. They'll block off an AFM calendar and I'll bet it will be December 2014.

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He could stumble over JWfan and stop composing immediately.

But seriously, was there doubt that it will be recorded in LA? Didn't Williams turn down an assignment recently (was it Harry Potter?) because he wanted to record in LA, and the studio wanted London? This, plus his statement that the US has the most talented players, plus his desire to not travel much anymore ... I can't think of any reason at all why Williams would want to record SW VII in London, other than nostalgia.

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In the end, I honestly think people are making too big a deal about this. I don't have any personal requirement that the LSO must record the music to Star Wars at all costs, or believe they possess absolute authority over this musical domain. The idea of sentimentality with the LSO's connection to this franchise doesn't escape me, or fall outside my periphery. I get it, I really do.

Ultimately, I respect the Maestro's decision, and that of the filmmaker, to make the best product possible, in the most comfortable conditions as possible, using the finest tools at their disposal. If that means a more local orchestra, then so be it. I suspect the music will not suffer as a result.

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Let's be logical here. JW has spent a lot of time the past year or two supporting US musician pension and local orchestras at great expense to himself (waving his fees). If not for financial advantage (buy out) why would he record in London rather than LA for Star Wars VII - IX? The only possible reason would be nostalgia and that's not sufficient. What was the last time JJ Abrams directed a film where the score was recorded outside of LA? What was the last time JW recorded a score in London for a non-George Lucas produced film? When was the last time Disney produced film was recorded in London? Lucas recorded in London not because of the musicianship but because of the buy out provisions. Remove him from the equation and you have Abrams who supports the LA musicians who will nail it...I love the fact that Star Wars I-VI were recorded in London because that adds to the non studio feel of the films. The musicianship is excellent but it was excellent in LA scored films too (Close Encounters, E.T, Temple of Doom, 1941, etc.).

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All John Williams releases are handled by Sony Classical (I think he has a contract with them), the only exceptions being Decca for a Universal picture or Warner Classics for a WB picture.

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