.

[Jay 37,361]

Typing loosing it instead of losing it lead to humor.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Loosen up!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Timestamps please!

from 1 Hour 13 Minutes 11 Secs to 1 Hour 14 Minutes 2 Secs

Similar but not the same.

[stravinsky 206]

"It does, however, have the only other instance of a motif that seems like it may have been for Threepio (?). Check out 1:20-1:27 of Binary Sunset (Alternate) which seems to sync up to when Threepio jumps out from his hiding place behind the landspeeder in the garage and compare it to "Tales of Jedi Knight" around the 1:00 - 1:06 mark, which underscores Luke and Obi-Wan finding an armless Threepio shortly after the sandpeople attack Luke."

I am fascinated by this because I return to this great score every so often and recently I have wondered if there were indeed hidden motifs that play under the radar. Motifs that I had never noticed before. Funnily enough it was this exact section of the score that I mulled over, feeling that thematically there was something linking tracks which cover the first act of the movie. But I could not pin it down. Now I've found out about this C-3PO idea as well as the "Dies Irae" motif thanks to intrepid listeners on here. I had never really noticed these fragments before until being pointed out like this and this is testament to Williams' genius that after almost 35 years of listening, I still hadn't noticed these ciphers.

This is what fascinates me about this score...truly the first piece of serious music I ever got to know (at the age of 11 when my old dear bought me the cassettes of Star Wars and Empire for Christmas). I don't know how many hundreds (perhaps thousands) of times I've listened to the score....and all the better for me that the release of the music was staggered. It made the score seem still fresh when the last unavailable tracks were finally released in 1997. It was like hearing the music new all over again and as if it were a new soundtrack for my early adult life.

This reminds me of the moment I discovered (after reading an article in FSM) that there was a secret rendering of the Jabba the Hutt theme implied in the harmonies of the bombastic music to accompany the CGI Jabba's brief appearance in TPM. I had been playing the TPM for a few years before I found this out...I hadn't even heard it!

Could someone please tell me where the "Dies Irae" idea makes it's other appearances in the score for Ep IV? Could there be other motifs on top of these two that are still undiscovered?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Igor, how do you feel about the opening of The Dune Sea of Tatooine and its similarity to one of your noted works?!

[indy4 155]

Could someone please tell me where the "Dies Irae" idea makes it's other appearances in the score for Ep IV? Could there be other motifs on top of these two that are still undiscovered?

It gets a great variation on french horn in Burning Homestead, following an elegaic string variation of the Force Theme. Other than that (and the Binary sunset alt), I don't thik it's in the ANH. But it makes a lot of appearances in AotC and RotS.

[stravinsky 206]

Igor, how do you feel about the opening of The Dune Sea of Tatooine and its similarity to one of your noted works?!

Yes yes! I was astonished the first time I heard Le Sacre du Printemps when I bought an LP of Markevitch conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra when I was 16. I put on side B and lo and behold I was listening to the Dune Sea music. I'd found Williams pastiche of the Rite first. I'm glad I did. Williams is a wonderful magpie with this sort of plagiarism. All great composers borrow. Perhaps not bleeding chunks of course but there it is.

[Dole 17]

One thing I like about the original version of Binary Sunset is that, with it included in the score, it makes the Force theme appear for the first time during Obi-Wan's first appearance, which I think is more fitting, in a way.

The Force Theme actually appears for the first time in the score in the Imperial Attack cue when Princess Leia is inserting the plans and her message for Obi-Wan into R2.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The Force Theme actually appears for the first time in the score in the Imperial Attack cue when Princess Leia is inserting the plans and her message for Obi-Wan into R2.

That's actually my favourite version of the theme.

[Mr. Brown 91]

I was listening to Herrmann's "Change of Address" (I'm pretty sure it was that one, at least) from the Alfred Hitchcock Hour and I heard a lot of sounds that Williams mimicked in STAR WARS. Pretty interesting.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

[Mr. Brown 91]

Thanks, Sharky. That's it. Around the 10:00 point.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,361]

Either way, if the original version is used, it still keeps the Force theme used for Obi-Wan related reasons for its first few appearances

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dole 17]

Obi-Wan will give Luke the opportunity to leave home and find adventure, which is what he's yearning for as he stares off into the sunset, and R2 is running away to find Kenobi at that moment. Musical foreshadowing! So the scene was properly scored the second time around...from a certain point of view.

[Jay 37,361]

I completely agree!

[Faleel 5,348]

Here is the music synced with the scene:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VHQ5aXpZTDNhZEk/view?usp=sharing

[Balahkay 627]

I really like the music on it's own, but it doesn't work for me in the scene. Maybe it's because I can't unhear the original music when I watch it, which I think is absolute perfection.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,348]

Now that I look at it, my video is about a hair off, if you open it up with VLC, and set track synchronization to 1.000 it fits better in some ways (for example the moment when Luke presses the button on the remote for Threepio's restraining bolt)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You failed!

[Faleel 5,348]

It's Aunt Beru's fault!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

One thing I like about the original version of Binary Sunset is that, with it included in the score, it makes the Force theme appear for the first time during Obi-Wan's first appearance, which I think is more fitting, in a way.

The Force Theme actually appears for the first time in the score in the Imperial Attack cue when Princess Leia is inserting the plans and her message for Obi-Wan into R2.

Incorrect. It's first heard in Episode I.

Start thinking "saga", people!

[Wojo 2,453]

Candy Crush is coming after you for using that word.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Who?

[Bespin 8,481]

This scene is perhaps the most strong scene of all the saga. It reveals the path of Luke's destiny.

Lucas was right to tell John Williams that this scene needed a more emotional charge.

The original music is good (hey, it's John Williams!), but the actual fits better, especially when we know what's coming next.

[stravinsky 206]

I just noticed 2 more examples of the "Dies Irae" motif. In the cue "The Moisture Farm" we hear it chugging along as counterpoint to the Jawa theme from 0:57-1:20 then strings close the cue with another Dies Irae fragment from 1:46-1:50 this time underneath the C# on the horn. However I may be mistaken here. It is difficult to distinguish between the Dies Irae idea and the ostinato which accompanies the Jawa theme which first makes it's appearance at 1:36 during "Dune Sea/Jawa Sandcrawler. Or is it just one and the same thing?

Also there's another thing I've noticed and it's an ascending idea for flutes which can be heard at 0:16 - 0:21 in the Alternate Binary Sunset cue. It also makes an appearance (slight variant perhaps) from 0:07 - 0:10 in The Moisture Farm as well as else where in the score but I can't remember where.

[Faleel 5,348]

0:07 - 0:10 in The Moisture Farm

Could that be a variant of 1:21 or 1:37 of the Binary Sunset Alternate?

[skyy38 21]

Isn't it just because we're so used to the film version that we think it doesn't fit, though?

No, not at all.

The original cue is too up tempo, too dark and most of all, just doesn't fit.

Good catch by George.......

[Tallguy 3,386]

Coming in late to an old topic.

The film version is Luke's "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" moment. He thinks he can go on to greater things.

The original is much more on the nose and closer to what we see on screen: "I'm 18, I'm stuck on the farm, and I just had a fight with my uncle. All is woe." Then the second half is even more things going wrong. It's not an upbeat take, but Luke isn't an upbeat character at this point.

The film version is a much lighter touch. But I don't think the original sounds out of place. It sounds like The Walls Converge, it sounds like The Return Home.

BTW, I'm not sure anyone corrected this, but someone mentioned that in the film this introduced Ben's theme. It doesn't. Ben's theme is introduced when Leia puts the plans into R2.

[Faleel 5,348]

Ben's theme is introduced when Leia puts the plans into R2.

But a truncated version.

[karelm 2,913]

Ben's theme is introduced when Leia puts the plans into R2.

But a truncated version.

What are we calling "Ben's Theme"? Is that the force theme?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Wouldn't a better title be "Ben's Hokey Religion's Theme?"

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[karelm 2,913]

In some places it doesn't really have anything to do with Ben. Like here in ESB/Hoth:

https://youtu.be/b9K3RepZ__I?t=621

Maybe better as "Jedi's Plight" theme since it seems to be heard anytime they start struggling...or perhaps the "Light Side of the Force" theme that way it works for Qui-Gon or anyone who is a jedi master. Is there a Dark Side of the Force theme? It really isn't the Imperial march since that is vader specific. Nor the Emperors theme since that too seems character specific.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[karelm 2,913]

People called it Ben's Theme in 1977 (I think Williams himself called him that too), because it was directly related to the character in the first film. It only later became the Force theme, as Williams' use of the melody expanded.

of course, now we all call it the Force theme, and it's a fitting name. No need to come up with crazy ideas like "A Jedi's Plight"...

Yeah, you're probably right. Just a generic Force theme makes sense...to tie it back to this thread, as a force theme it makes sense over the binary sunset since in a way it foretells Luke's fate as a jedi master sort of like the force is calling him...

[Tallguy 3,386]

Yes, I'm an originalist. On the Star Wars liner notes Williams calls it Ben's Theme. I think by Empire he was calling it the Force theme.

[filmmusic 1,829]

A couple of years of a late reply but I just realised this (i'm not sure if it has been mentioned):

 

The "dies-irate" motif in its most powerful rendition in this cue

at 0.22''

 

is harmonized by i-vib-(i) in a minor scale (if we take out the auxiliary chord to the tonic, which is just a decoration) repeated over and over, and this harmonic sequence which is very characteristic one (i'm not sure if it's heard elsewhere in the score, i'm just studying it carefully), is the main sequence in Darth Vader's theme!!!

So, it's like foreshadowing the theme and the tragic events that will follow.

Of course Williams (and Lucas I think?) didn't know at that time about a 2nd film, but maybe he was based on this for his Vader theme.(or maybe subconsciously)

[artguy360 1,843]

It's more foreboding than wistful which totally changes the tone of the scene. It works in it's own right but the force theme rendition has become iconic for a reason. The music they went with captures a feeling of wanderlust and a desire for more in life than the original music does. The original cue kind of gives me the same feelings as The Jedi Steps.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Both versions are too different to be compared with another. They're both great. They give the scene a totally different meaning. It's like the delivery of the baby T-rex in The Lost World. With the cue "In the Trailer" the focus would have been on the relationship between the baby T-rex and its parents, without that cue the scene is focused on the pure terrorization of the people in the trailer. In the case of "Binary Sunset" it's either Luke's yearning for more or Luke's discontentment that is described by the music.

[Loert 2,511]

On 02/08/2017 at 7:22 PM, filmmusic said:

is harmonized by i-vib-(i) in a minor scale (if we take out the auxiliary chord to the tonic, which is just a decoration) repeated over and over, and this harmonic sequence which is very characteristic one (i'm not sure if it's heard elsewhere in the score, i'm just studying it carefully), is the main sequence in Darth Vader's theme!!!

So, it's like foreshadowing the theme and the tragic events that will follow.

 

It's not the full chord progression but there is a suggestive bassline here (dum dum dum DUM dum...)

 

 

[Score 770]

On 30/9/2015 at 0:55 AM, Tallguy said:

 

 

 

BTW, I'm not sure anyone corrected this, but someone mentioned that in the film this introduced Ben's theme. It doesn't. Ben's theme is introduced when Leia puts the plans into R2.

 

 

 

And, if JW's original idea for the scene had been kept, the theme would return when we see Ben again after Luke is attacked (unless I am forgetting some other instances). So, the original cue made perfect sense from the point of view of the use of leitmotifs. Both versions are great cues anyway.