John Williams lecture -- input needed.

[Thor 7,504]

I've been asked to hold a 45-minute lecture as part of this year's seminar on film music from the Norwegian Film Club Association -- alongside renowned film music scholars such as Annahid Kassabian and Richard Dyer (the British scholar, not the Boston Globe journalist who interviewed John Williams a lot back in the day). Full program here:

http://filmklubb.no/kurs/

Anyways, I chose "John Williams' unknown sides" as my topic -- unknown meaning scores that aren't among his most popular and showcase a side that is different from the fanfares and the neo-romantic stuff. So far, I'm considering at the very least IMAGES, THE LONG GOODBYE, HOW TO STEAL A MILLION. Which scores would you suggest as appropriate for this lecture?

[Incanus 5,714]

Off the top of my head I would suggest at least Sleepers, Rosewood, Cinderella Liberty, Missouri Breaks, A Man Who Loved Cat Dancing, Eiger Sanction and perhaps some of his early crime jazz or tv scores. You could always throw in some of his concert works as well unless it becomes too sprawling a subject.

[mahler3 478]

Sleepers is definitely a good one to highlight. Williams really nailed the difficult tone with that one. Loss of innocence / tragedy / regret / optimism - all neatly summed up with this beautiful theme: https://soundcloud.com/timburden/hells-kitchen-extract-sleepers

Best wishes for the lecture.

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[TownerFan 4,983]

Sleepers is definitely a good one to highlight. Williams really nailed the difficult tone with that one. Loss of innocence / tragedy / regret / optimism - all neatly summed up with this beautiful theme: https://soundcloud.com/timburden/hells-kitchen-extract-sleepers

I agree! He probably captured the tone of the story even better than the filmmaker. Curiously enough, I recently went to a concert where Leonard Bernstein's symphonic suite from On The Waterfront was performed--I noticed for the first time some similarities between this piece and Williams' "Hell's Kitchen" cue, mainly the beautiful horn, flute and harp trio reading of a highly chromatic melodic figure.

[Arpy 4,145]

'The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing' is a good one. I haven't seen the film, but I frequently listen to the score. How about 'Nixon' or 'Presumed Innocent' which I feel people often leave out of everything. Maybe they're not engaging scores but they do contain some great moments.

[Incanus 5,714]

If you go by least mentioned instead of not composed in the largely symphonic style then Presumed Innocent might fit the bill, also The Accidental Tourist or even Always. Heck throw in The River while we are at it.

Sleepers is definitely a good one to highlight. Williams really nailed the difficult tone with that one. Loss of innocence / tragedy / regret / optimism - all neatly summed up with this beautiful theme: https://soundcloud.com/timburden/hells-kitchen-extract-sleepers

Best wishes for the lecture.

Yes Sleepers is an excellent one although firmly in the symphonic idiom, Williams uses interesting elements not often heard in his scores before like the electric bass pulses, a bit more prominent synths, synth drum kit and very ambient sound painting (e.g. Learning the Hard Way) and even interpolation of ghostly liturgical music in the brilliant Saying the Rosary. Certainly not widely discussed.

[Bespin 8,481]

Sleepers, it's on my want list.

[Uni 306]

Two words: John. Goldfarb. (Especially if you're going to be playing clips from the scores you're speaking on.)

I'd love to hear your presentation—though I probably wouldn't understand a word of it. . . .

[Thor 7,504]

Two words: John. Goldfarb. (Especially if you're going to be playing clips from the scores you're speaking on.)

I'd love to hear your presentation—though I probably wouldn't understand a word of it. . . .

The whole seminar is in English, including my bit. But yeah -- a bit far off.

JOHN GOLDFARB would be fun for a laugh, but I'd like to have HOW TO STEAL A MILLION -- a far better film -- represent this particular sound. Maybe one other that I haven't decided on yet.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I've thought about some of them myself, but it's nice to be "backed up".

[Uni 306]

I would use the opening of JG for a quick laugh—"Who could forget this Williams classic?"—and as a way to demonstrate in a vivid fashion to most of the people there that there's a lot of JW music they've not only never heard, but would never have dreamed he wrote. Makes for a fun snapshot illustration, but I wouldn't go into anything deeper than that, either. (You're right that How to Steal a Million is a much better score for analysis. Bachelor Flat is pretty good too, for having a similar sound as well as representing one of his earliest studio works.)

[Thor 7,504]

Good idea. I might start off the lecture by a rare glimpse into YOU ARE WELCOME (not so rare, perhaps, after it was put on Youtube) or DADDY-O -- just to give an idea of the VERY early beginnings.

[EdwardHall 30]

Jane Eyre, Earthquake, The Towering Inferno. There is a lot of bold, beautiful music in those three.

[Incanus 5,714]

Two words: John. Goldfarb. (Especially if you're going to be playing clips from the scores you're speaking on.)

I'd love to hear your presentation—though I probably wouldn't understand a word of it. . . .

The whole seminar is in English, including my bit. But yeah -- a bit far off.

JOHN GOLDFARB would be fun for a laugh, but I'd like to have HOW TO STEAL A MILLION -- a far better film -- represent this particular sound. Maybe one other that I haven't decided on yet.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I've thought about some of them myself, but it's nice to be "backed up".

I would suggest How to Steal a Million, by far the most sophisticated of those 1960s comedies JW did. Although it would be tempting to suggest Goldfarb as the mere main title with the Fawzian prayer call would probably drop few people from their seats.

None But the Brave would be a good example of an early JW drama/war score.

In general it seems most of the Williams' scores outside his big blockbusters are often forgotten, especially those not done for Spielberg. There is a ton of material to mine from each decade of his career as many of his smaller or slightly more experimental (Williams is a traditionalist though) scores are often left by the wayside. Surprisingly Images and The Long Goodbye are well and warmly remembered by critics (one Finnish JW concert programme notes penned by one of our pre-eminent film historians praised them and forgot to introduce some of the material in the actual programme in fact) if they happen to remember them at all. But those are something you should definitely try to mention in the lecture.

[Bespin 8,481]

Jane Eyre, Earthquake, The Towering Inferno. There is a lot of bold, beautiful music in those three.

 

Jane Eyre, good idea. I think Jane Eyre (1971) and The Reivers (1969) are the oldest works that JW re-recorded among his own repertoire.

 

[Thor 7,504]

Although JANE EYRE is 'unknown' to most people, it isn't THAT far removed -- stylistically -- from the Williams that is popular. But I do agree with THE REIVERS -- or for that matter, THE MISSOURI BREAKS, THE RIVER, THE MAN WHO LOVED CAT DANCING, SUGARLAND EXPRESS etc., scores that showcase Williams' grasp of socalled 'gritty Americana'; not the sweeping Copland kind (which he also does well), but the more minimal, folksy stuff on banjos, harmonicas and percussion.

[Bespin 8,481]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Far And Away, The Lost World: Jurassic Park and War Of The Worlds are 3 quite unknown and little discussed Williams scores which deserve more exposure.

[publicist 4,643]

Although JANE EYRE is 'unknown' to most people, it isn't THAT far removed -- stylistically -- from the Williams that is popular. But I do agree with THE REIVERS -- or for that matter, THE MISSOURI BREAKS, THE RIVER, THE MAN WHO LOVED CAT DANCING, SUGARLAND EXPRESS etc., scores that showcase Williams' grasp of socalled 'gritty Americana'; not the sweeping Copland kind (which he also does well), but the more minimal, folksy stuff on banjos, harmonicas and percussion.

I'd add CINDERELLA LIBERTY and LONG GOODBYE as examples of Williams scoring the 'urban jungle' as well as SLEEPERS (the gritty stuff).

For many 'non-connoisseurs' of film music it's helpful to attach labels like this that stick. I am not convinced that a score like HOW TO STEAL A MILLION makes much of a case. It sounds like run-of-the-mill breezy comedy music that just proves that Williams could meet the demands of the day when every comedy sounded like this - too workmanlike.

[Marcus 390]

Sounds like fun! Good luck, Thor!

I did a guest lecture at The Manhattan School of Music back in 2007,partially with a similar theme, and remember discussing music from "Heartbeeps", "Missouri Breaks", "Not With My Wife, You Don't", and "Images".

Part of my point,though (for a class consisting mostly of composers), was to look at shared technical aspects in Williams' writing, despite vast stylistic differences between the scores (I also did a brief history of the "Williams scherzo", from "Jane Eyre" via "Dracula" to "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra").

As you'll be addressing an audience of movie buffs, I think delving into scores such as "The Long Goodbye" and "Cinderella Liberty", or even more recent fare, like "Catch Me If You Can" and "Memoirs of a Geisha", would showcase the diversity of both musical styles and dramaturgical approaches quite well.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I did a guest lecture at The Manhattan School of Music back in 2007

Hold on... I think I might have been there!

[Marcus 390]

Goodness gracious!

I was guest lecturing for Edward Green's film scoring class.. This would have been April of '07...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Ahh hmm... the time sounds right, but I didn't think it had been for a particular class. I may be remembering something else.

[Marcus 390]

Did you attend Green's class? I was living in London at the time, but had taken Ed Green's film music course during the first year of my Master's three years earlier, and was invited to sub for him in a guest lecturing capacity for two weeks that April.

I remember it being lots of fun, despite coming down with pneumonia about halfway through my stay...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yes I sat in on some of those at Corigliano's recommendation - this would also have been a few years prior to 2007 though so my memory must just be playing tricks on me! I'll have to ask a few people who might remember better and would have been the ones to alert me that a lecture on Williams was taking place.

[Uni 306]

Although JANE EYRE is 'unknown' to most people, it isn't THAT far removed -- stylistically -- from the Williams that is popular. But I do agree with THE REIVERS -- or for that matter, THE MISSOURI BREAKS, THE RIVER, THE MAN WHO LOVED CAT DANCING, SUGARLAND EXPRESS etc., scores that showcase Williams' grasp of socalled 'gritty Americana'; not the sweeping Copland kind (which he also does well), but the more minimal, folksy stuff on banjos, harmonicas and percussion.

Agreed. He's really done a lot in that vein, when you think about it—yet it's probably the most ignored angle of his repertoire. This might be a good "blind spot" to educate people about.

[Thor 7,504]

Sounds like fun! Good luck, Thor!

I did a guest lecture at The Manhattan School of Music back in 2007,partially with a similar theme, and remember discussing music from "Heartbeeps", "Missouri Breaks", "Not With My Wife, You Don't", and "Images".

Part of my point,though (for a class consisting mostly of composers), was to look at shared technical aspects in Williams' writing, despite vast stylistic differences between the scores (I also did a brief history of the "Williams scherzo", from "Jane Eyre" via "Dracula" to "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra").

As you'll be addressing an audience of movie buffs, I think delving into scores such as "The Long Goodbye" and "Cinderella Liberty", or even more recent fare, like "Catch Me If You Can" and "Memoirs of a Geisha", would showcase the diversity of both musical styles and dramaturgical approaches quite well.

That's cool, Marcus. HEARTBEEPS is a gutsy choice!

Of course, I'm totally clueless when it comes to advanced musical terminology (well, not TOTALLY, but I only know the basics), so I wouldn't know where to start or end. However, I do compensate with a) lots of of knowledge about biographical and work details in regard to Williams and b) extensive experience in analyzing music in a filmatic context (I've often used IMAGES for this purpose in the past). So I'm gonna nurture that. You're right that the audience will mostly consist of film buffs, although there are also composers there.

[Bespin 8,481]

HEARTBEEPS and IMAGES...good if the goal of this conference is to scare people and disgust them forever about the music of John Williams.

What about Checkmate?

[indy4 155]

I second CMIYC and MOAG (and pretty much everything else that's been said here already)

[Once 605]

Images (a personal favorite), How to Steal a Million, Catch Me If You Can, Memoirs of a Geisha. All very different from each other!

[Thor 7,504]

I'm considering playing the 'techno' bit in A.I. when David is being chased by the bikers, but there are people who say this was composed by Joseph Williams, not John. I've never read or seen any official confirmation of this, though. Can anyone confirm or deny? Maybe it's in the liner notes of the expansion (which I obviously do not own)?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes, "The Biker Hounds" is composed by Joseph Williams.

[Thor 7,504]

OK. Do you have a source?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Jay's interview with Matessino posted on the main page.

Did John Williams request any changes to a traditional chronological order in order to enhance the listening experience?

The only change John suggested was that the section of music from the original release that his son Joe composed be presented in it entirety as a bonus track. On the original album an excerpt of it appeared in the midst of a track called “The Moon Rising,” but that track itself was not assembled chronologically. On the 2-CD Academy “for-your-consideration” promo, I think the track was in order but still not complete. The cue called “The Biker Hounds (extension)” is the full length cue by Joseph. I’d initially assembled it as a 7-1/2-minute “extended version” of “The Moon Rising,” but this time around the feeling was to present John’s score only. Joseph’s piece was included because it was on the original album.

[Jay 37,363]

Joseph Williams composed all 3 (and a half) original source cues in the film.

I'm surprised you didn't know this, Thor!

[Thor 7,504]

Yeah, well....sort of known it for years, but never bothered to get it confirmed. Perhaps I secretly wanted Williams sr. to have composed it? Thanks for the confirmation/source, Koray!

Guess I could still use A.I. as an example, though. The John Adams-style music that plays as they fly to New York is also an aspect of (contemporary) Williams that is rather unknown to most people.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Yes, A.I. is a very good example among his more recent output to show Williams straying away from his famous symphonic language for the most part. From the eerie electronic textures in the first act to the minimalist-inspired writing in the second one to the simple diatonic piano-led music in the last reel, it also shows his chameleon abilities.

Another interesting and lesser-known example is JFK, especially the more textural cues featuring electronics and late 20th century writing.

[Thor 7,504]

Another interesting and lesser-known example is JFK, especially the more textural cues featuring electronics and late 20th century writing.

Yeah, I've been considering the "Conspirators" cue (also known as "Dennis Steals the Embryos" ).

[publicist 4,643]

I never found this cue interesting. It became a trailer staple for a reason.

[Thor 7,504]

The lecture is over.

For those curious, this is what I showed:

1) Career beginnings

- Clip from credit sequence of YOU ARE WELCOME

- Clip from credit sequence of DADDY-O

- Linking the past with the present: Played the string/flute ostinato from "Duel of the Fates" followed by the main credits of THE SECRET WAYS

2) 60s comedies

- First five minutes of A GUIDE FOR THE MARRIED MAN (animated sequence, prologue, title sequence)

3) Folksy Americana

- Clip from THE REIVERS -- as they're pulled from the mud, and the drive into Memphis

- A little bit of the ROSEWOOD opening

4) "Artfilms/art music"

- Main title sequence from IMAGES

5) Contemporary "minimalism"

- The flight to Manhattan from A.I. - Articificial Intelligence

Then 45 minutes was over. But I played a few more snippets in iTunes based on questions from the audience etc. -- the "Training Montage" from SPACE CAMP, "New Shooter" from CINDERELLA LIBERTY and the techno bit from A.I. (making sure to point out it was -- unfortunately -- composed by his son, not John).

I could easily have gone on for ages, and I had to cut out quite a few things, including the opening of MUNICH and a couple of scenes from SLEEPERS.

[Incanus 5,714]

Do you think the lecture was an eye/ear opener for the audience? And your selection was indeed very much off the beaten path of his biggest scores.

[Thor 7,504]

Yeah, I was told it was an "ear-opener" for Williams by a couple of people afterwards. And that's all I wanted to hear.

[Incanus 5,714]

Mission accomplished then!

[Jay 37,363]

the techno bit from A.I. (making sure to point out it was -- unfortunately -- composed by his son, not John).

Why is that unfortunate?

And what was the point of playing a non-JW composition anyway?

[Thor 7,504]

It's "unfortunate" that he didn't compose it because it would have been SOOO cool if he had. I played it because someone in the audience asked about Williams' use of electronics. I then played a snippet of "Training Montage" from SPACECAMP -- a bit for fun -- and then the techno bit from A.I. (since I had just shown a clip from the film) for an example of how Williams' score is intervowen with electronic elements -- even if they were not composed by him. I had planned on playing the "Conspirators/JFK-"Dennis Steals the Embryo"/JP combo as well, but time ran out.

[Incanus 5,714]

Inside Dr. Know's from A.I. would have been a good example of his more extensive use of electronics, or Munich or even the Prologue or finale of The War of the Worlds. On the whole Williams tends to use them to bolster sound and colours of instruments or instrumental groups. Even the celesta sound of Harry Potter was in part a synth-creation for the specific sound he wanted from the instrument. Even when he is doing ambient textures he most often produces them through the orchestra.

Good and subtler examples of the use of electronics in Williams scores are those little unusual instrumental flourishes that stand a bit out in their brightness or texture like the animal howl or zither sounds in The Lost World or the electronic flourishes that complement the Presumed Innocent theme.

[Thor 7,504]

"Inside Dr. Know" is a good suggestion that I didn't think of.

I had planned on playing the opening of MUNICH with that throbbing bassline, but didn't get the time. MINORITY REPORT, WAR OF THE WORLDS and bits and pieces of the STAR WARS prequels could also have served the purpose of Williams' contemporary stylings (less of the long melody lines, more the harmony exploration, rhytmic figures etc.). Or the "drum kit" parts of SLEEPERS (not really electronic, with but with a popular music influence). The discrete use in PRESUMED INNOCENT was also on my "if I have the time"-list.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yeah, I was told it was an "ear-opener" for Williams by a couple of people afterwards. And that's all I wanted to hear.

Did you tell them about JWFAN? This would have been a good opportunity to recruit new forum members!

[Thor 7,504]

OK, so I'm having another Williams lecture in a week or so:

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/767414146722050/

 

Friday's lecture is about the history of film music, Saturday's is about John Williams (I'm showing A.I. afterwards). And this time I want to show some 'known' sides too, not just 'unknown sides'.

 

What I wanted to ask you guys now, is for specific filmic elements where Williams usually excels. For example, 'flight'/soaring is a good example (I could show the E.T. Flying scene, the JURASSIC PARK island flyover and the HP3 Griffin scene to illustrate this point). Rural USA/'Americana' is another aspect that I also touched on in the previous lecture.

 

Any other suggestions?

[Bespin 8,481]

John Williams is also a master of multicultural music. 

 

Amistad, Rosewood, seven Years in Tibet, Schindler's list, Memoirs of a Geisha, Munich, Far and away, Empire of the sun, Heidi, Tintin, The terminal, etc.

 

I think not many composers can cover such a diversity with such mastery and success.

[Thor 7,504]

Thanks for the response!

 

Yes, "ethnic" colours are an interesting aspect of his work. But it's not really an aspect that Williams uniquely excels at. I mean, I could find a similar ethnic diversity in other composers' music too.

 

I was more thinking aspects of film wherein Williams finds particular inspiration, and which have led to some great musical pieces that sorta define him.

 

Yeah, I know it's kinda vague, but again:

 

- Flight

- Americana

- Pastoral elements