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Brian Tyler & Danny Elfman - The Avengers: Age of Ultron


Jay

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Was there any talk of referencing other Marvel movie composers themes in “Avengers,” like the ones that Patrick Doyle and John Debney had written for “Thor” and “Iron Man 2?”

AS: There was never a conversation about any of that, or even the Captain America theme for instance. There were only conversations about the desire to have a definable theme for The Avengers as a group.

We knew that if we were to have a theme for every character in this movie, the music would get very clunky and intrusive. So I stayed away from all of that. I did come up with a motif for Loki, but that’s because he was the principle villain in the film. Midway through the writing process Joss had seen some scenes with The Black Widow where he wanted to explore music that was a bit more thematic for her, which I did. But the one moment that everyone was anticipating was the scene in the middle of New York City, when all of The Avengers are standing there. We all knew that whatever The Avengers theme was going to be, it had better work in that spot!

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=9475

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And Danny Elfman knows that too. ;)

I was generally bored by the score, but I like some random instances of Elfman's heroic music.

It's a very unwieldy, unfocused album that doesn't do any favours to either of two gentlemen contributing to it. It will probably require re-sequencing with some additional unreleased material to make it truly listenable.

Karol

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I've been replaying the first movie's theme all day now. I actually quite like it now, the only problem it seems to have it's that it's formed by three different phrases that never come together: You have the first James Bond-ish part with the fitting 80's percussion, then you have those ascending horns and then you have what it's being used now by Elfman as the main theme. I think people would have ended liking this score a lot more if that end credits mini-suite of the three phrases got together somehow, because as it is, that opening jazzy ostinato never returns by the end of the track. It's quite puzzling actually that Alan didn't went all in there at least, considering that's what people are bound to hear the most.

Still, they are three great phrases, getting better and better as they go along.

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One more theme Elfman wrote is for Scarlet Witch. It appears in Ultron-Twins (hinted at early on and stated in full at 2:40), can You Stop This Thing? (very start) and Inevitability-One Good Eye (from 1:36).

Karol

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Been giving this a listen

It's quite easy to guess what cues are Tyler's and what are Elfman's.

Tyler's cues are the usual chaotic and noisy "look at me" type cues that seem defined by the bells and whistles surrounding the very basic musical oideas, which despite their even changing tempo's and attermpts at ornate instrumentation (more drums...MORE DRUMS) don't really signify anything noteworthy.

It's like a man screaming loudly on the train. You notice him screaming, but don't really pay attention to what he's saying.

I dont know how this is supposed to pay homage to Raiders, Superman or LOTR. (though in all honestly, the score has been maligned from it's original form, so it's hard to judge Tyler's intentions from the final result)

Elfman's effort comes of better. His new theme is built around Silvestri's theme. And while he took the edge of Allan's juggernaut of a theme it does create an very nice feel of continuity. Elfman's musc, even though written in a hurry seems better defined, richer.

This is exactly why you hire an old pro like Elfman to fix a score.

The end result is a very inconsistent score though. Even moreso then the score for this first film.

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I cant recall anything of that score to he honest, apart from the opening, which was Silvesri's Theme. Which is now the most used Marvel theme, having appeared in 5 films.

I agree with KK that Elfman's new theme for the Avengers is really nice. I dont think it's as strong as the Silvestri theme that it originated from though.

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What I like about the new theme is that it can be more malleable. And Elfman can use fragments of it wherever, in almost any variation imaginable (and still be recognisable). It might not be as striking as Silvestri but it also feels more human and warm and can be applied to some character moments (as opposed to only heroic stuff). Doubt the other one would be successful at that.

Karol

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Was there any talk of referencing other Marvel movie composers themes in “Avengers,” like the ones that Patrick Doyle and John Debney had written for “Thor” and “Iron Man 2?”

AS: There was never a conversation about any of that, or even the Captain America theme for instance. There were only conversations about the desire to have a definable theme for The Avengers as a group.

We knew that if we were to have a theme for every character in this movie, the music would get very clunky and intrusive. So I stayed away from all of that. I did come up with a motif for Loki, but that’s because he was the principle villain in the film. Midway through the writing process Joss had seen some scenes with The Black Widow where he wanted to explore music that was a bit more thematic for her, which I did. But the one moment that everyone was anticipating was the scene in the middle of New York City, when all of The Avengers are standing there. We all knew that whatever The Avengers theme was going to be, it had better work in that spot!

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=9475

I think they were wrong.

The characters should have had their respective themes in the beginning of the film. Then when the avengers finally come together as a group the new should appear for the rest of the film....

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It Begins by Danny Elfman is definitely the opening of this film. The Silvestri fanfare enters when we have the big slow mo shot of the group together. Only about the first 45 seconds are used in this sequence, then it jumps into an adaptaion of Silvestri's material (part of which is taken from I've Got a Ride). What's interesting, the material from this cue is used later in Seoul chase scene (0:48-1:15).

Oh and I was wrong about oboe statement of Captain America theme in the farm scene (just after Thor leaves). It sounds like Silvestri for sure but more like his heroic theme from... The Mummy Returns?

Inevitability-One Good Eye is at least partially used. Passage (which opens with Scarlet Witch theme) from 1:40-2:13 is there.

Karol

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Was there any talk of referencing other Marvel movie composers themes in “Avengers,” like the ones that Patrick Doyle and John Debney had written for “Thor” and “Iron Man 2?”

AS: There was never a conversation about any of that, or even the Captain America theme for instance. There were only conversations about the desire to have a definable theme for The Avengers as a group.

We knew that if we were to have a theme for every character in this movie, the music would get very clunky and intrusive.

This fella

Howard-Shore.png

would like to disagree.

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What I like about the new theme is that it can be more malleable. And Elfman can use fragments of it wherever, in almost any variation imaginable (and still be recognisable). It might not be as striking as Silvestri but it also feels more human and warm and can be applied to some character moments (as opposed to only heroic stuff). Doubt the other one would be successful at that.

Karol

Oh absolutely. It's interesting listening to Silvestri's theme and listen to Elfman's iteration. It's like Silvestri's theme is a rough draft, and Elfman's version is the final revised version.

I bet Henry Jackman scores Infinity War.

I didn't mind his creepy, ambient Winter Soldier theme though.

Since he scored The Winter Soldier and will do Captain America: Civil War for the Russo Brothers, can't imagine them not asking him back. But Marvel Studios seems to have a habit of ejecting most composers after two movies, so maybe Kevin Feige will 'encourage' them to get Danny Elfman to score.

I initially wasn't fond of Elfman's hybrid theme when I first heard it, but it works marvelously in the film. It's a shame his work has to share space with Tyler's retained cues and tracked in Silvestri cues. Either Elfman or Silvestri should've scored this film properly.

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Any idea of a chorine track list yet?

I am assuming you meant chrono?

Lol indeed.

I would imagine no matter who scores Infinity War, it will have a healthy dose of the Silvestri theme. I was glad this one features it so much, I've become quite fond of it over the years. The tracking of "I've got a ride"non the beginning kinda worked too.

On another note, Elfman keeps reminding me how good he does with the superhero stuff. I can't imagine the film without his contributions. His music is really great in this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I can't even remember the hybrid theme. I don't recall even hearing it.

I keep whistling Silvestri's theme though.

Have you heard the album? If not, then you wouldn't remember it. The score is mixed so low in the film that you can really hear it clearly only once (well, twice, if you include end credits).

Karol

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Since he scored The Winter Soldier and will do Captain America: Civil War for the Russo Brothers, can't imagine them not asking him back.

Is he confirmed for Civil War?

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Since he scored The Winter Soldier and will do Captain America: Civil War for the Russo Brothers, can't imagine them not asking him back.

Is he confirmed for Civil War?

I haven't seen it anywhere other than IMDB.

But I don't think that's official.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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My goodness, Elfman's music on this CD is so much better than Tyler's. Of course Danny Elfman is in a different league and has much more experience. I am glad that he chose to honor the existence of Alan Silvestri's first Avengers theme. I was also happy to hear a snippet of Silvestri's Captain America theme. So much better than Henry Jackman's obnoxious score for Winter Soldier.

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Since he scored The Winter Soldier and will do Captain America: Civil War for the Russo Brothers, can't imagine them not asking him back.

Is he confirmed for Civil War?

In one of the interviews with the Russo Brothers (post-Winter Soldier), they mentioned the production timetable for Captain America: Civil War and that some of the TWS crew are returning, including Jackman.

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They could do worse than Hugh Jackman.

He could conduct the orchestra with his adamantium claw props!

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The Cap's theme in heroic mode is identical to the statement heard in Assemble from first film. So it might be tracked after all.

Karim

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It sounded like that to me.


What do you mean? I liked it the moment i heard it

Sorry, my memory might be playing tricks on me.

Karol

I think it's excellent. Though Silvestri's shorter. More Power anthem like version is even better.

Elfman's version is a brilliant extension of Silvestri's idea. I love how he incorporate the "clarion call" part of Silvestri's theme so effortlessly into his own new melody.

Sadly in the film the score has such a confused identity that the Silvestri theme plays a larger, more memorable role.

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I need to see Age of Ultron again. Hopefully I can stay awake through the whole thing next time. There is almost too much action. For me it literally becomes exhausting.

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It's so weird. It's seems like he was happy with Tyler's score, and the producers brought in Elfman and redid everything... But Elfman's music sounds more like what I would have thought Whedon would like and Tyler's music sounds more like what a studio exec would think bring in. It's all odd.

I don't know if this was already confirmed. But according to Craig from Filmtracks, it was just scheduling issues:

I am privy to inside information James. Tyler's contract stipulated that he was exclusive to Marvel during the film. FF7 recordings were pushed into that window and Marvel found out when these sessions leaked and was non-plused to put it mildly. He did run out of time and Elfman was hired to finish the score. Again, this is from sources in the industry, whom I will not disclose publicly.

What I fear is that after this breech, Marvel may no longer use him, and that would make me very sad. I am a Tyler guy.

All the best.

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One thing keep thinking about. When Elfman was hired he said he composed this now-popular hybrid theme. And that he used Silvestri's material. But did he actually compose that tune completely on his own or was it something based on Tyler's material that he merged with old one?

Karol

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That's true. But there is something Tylery about those chord progressions, clanging anvils and string ostinato.

It might be just Elfman paying attention to his colleagues' work.

Karol

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One thing keep thinking about. When Elfman was hired he said he composed this now-popular hybrid theme. And that he used Silvestri's material. But did he actually compose that tune completely on his or was it something based on Tyler's material that he merged with old one?

Karol

There's nothing in Tyler's work that really hints at that.

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One thing keep thinking about. When Elfman was hired he said he composed this now-popular hybrid theme.

Come on! Apart from you and Stiff raving about it, nobody seems to really find it impressive!

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