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Return of the King FILM Discusison


diskobolus

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The ship going into the west was a GREAT ending, but nooo. We had to see Sam shutting his door. It was key to the story, you see.

I thought the same thing at first but with the addition of the final bit. It showed the the story wasn't about the battles or the magic, and really it wasn't even about the ring. It was about two friends and their loyalty to each other. And to me that's what LOTR is all about. :)

Justin

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Actually, what I meant was, why didn't they pick it up in ROTK?

I thought they did. Faramir disappoints his father, and so he knowingly sends him into his death: off to ride to Osgiliath.

- Marc, who had his mouth hanging open for at least 15 minutes straight turing the siege of Gondor.

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Has this ever been done before? A BBC production maybe? I think it would be great if they could do something like the NPR Star Wars Programs. Of course, with the movies already three and a half hours long, the radio versions might be 6 or 7. If they could get enough of the actors to come back, though, it might be just enough for that last LOTR fix.

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Temple of Doom has it trice.

Them! has four. :)

1)  Eowyn versus the witchking.  Why was Gandalf so worried about him if all it look was stabbing him in the face?

Because of the prophecy that no man could kill him. Eowyn could kill him because she was a woman, no man. And without Merry (no man but a halfling) stabbing him from behind first, she wouldn't have been able to do it either.

Marian - going to see it again on Wednesday.

:) The Return of the King (Howard Shore)

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Marian, i have a question. Of course Eowyn is not a man, but Merry is. Of course he did not kill him just injured him. I mean, he is a halfling, but then, the elven, Dwarf and any mage could have killed him too, the are not 'men' either. I dont remember if in the book they said merry could harm him because he was not a man, but then the fear of every middle earth dweller would not be right...

I think the whole dethenor plot was too much adpated... AnNd Gandalf killing him was not right.

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I've known since before I first saw FOTR, I can't even pinpoint exactly when I first found out. And Dr. Octopus from the new Spiderman is Alfred Molina (Sapito from Raiders of the Lost Ark). And Delbert Grady from The Shining is Philip Stone (Capt. Blumbertt from Temple of Doom). Admiral Ozzel from ESB was Hitler in LC. General Veers from ESB was Donovan in LC as well as the voice of Aragog in Chamber of Secrets...

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nope, he was absolutely fantastic but not the best. They made him too comical after the hobbits got split up. Of course I am not biassed AT ALL about this but Orlando Bloom was the best......

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I thing the undead are a little obsolete for 2003-4. They could have been like in Pirattes of the caribean

The thing is, they're supposed to be ghosts, not zombies. I liked them the way they were, but if it were a bit more conform to the book, they'd be even more silhouetted and vague, barely visible, only as a dark grey spectre.

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I was really glad they didn't look like the pirates at all. When they were first explaining the cursed army, that was the first thing that hit me. Instead, they looked like a sort of '50s version of ghostly creatures, which fit really well. Much more surreal and scary, and as a result, more powerful looking.

On the witchking:

First, they should have gone into the prophecy that no man could kill him. I thought it was just a standard evil villain line when he said it. Also, from what I understand, Gandalf is not a man either. He's some sort of the spirit-energy being in the form of a man.

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Re: To kill a Nazgul

In the book, the scene is as follows:

After Theoden is struck down, Eowyn (Dernhelm) stands between him and the Nazgul and they 'chat'. When she draws her sword Eowyn says: "Do what you will; but I will hinder it if I may"

Nazgul: "Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"

Eowyn: "But no living man am I!" etc.

There is no mention of why Merry thinks he can affect the Nazgul, just that he feel s he has to do something to help her.

Maybe the prophecy should have referred to 'the male of any species'!

Smaug

Who can't see the film for a while and is much relieved to be able to read about it (currently surrounded by people who know NOTHING about Tolkein and won't talk in case I reveal something from the next film).

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Marian, i have a question. Of course Eowyn is not a man, but Merry is. Of course he did not kill him just injured him. I mean, he is a halfling, but then, the elven, Dwarf and any mage could have killed him too, the are not 'men' either. I dont remember if in the book they said merry could harm him because he was not a man, but then the fear of every middle earth dweller would not be right...

To tell the truth, I was never sure of the meaning of "man" within this context. In any case, "man" obviously primarily referred to Eowyn being a woman, and I always assumed everyone in the story misinterpreted "no man" as "nobody".

Except perhaps Gandalf. He seems to have expected that his task was to confront the Witch King (in the book, he does have a brief confrontation with him but is then told by Pipping about Denethor and Faramir).

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How much longer will we have to wait, Stefancos, until you speak out about this movie?

Until this moment, cause i have now returned from seeing it.

I loved it, as I loved the other 2 films.

A brilliant and sweeping epic that manages not to lose sight of it's story and characters amidst the special effects.

I have only one major complaint:

THE FILM IS FAR TO SHORT!

Like TTT it feels like they really needed to tighten it up to get it up to a running time that allows cinema's to do multiple showings in one evening.

But an extended version will come, and if it's anything like the extended versions of the other 2 films, it will allow the film some breathing room.

I consider the cinema version as only a preview to the real version that is 11 months away.

I have not seen the relugar versions of FOTR and TTT since the 8 DVD sets and i'll probably won't watch them again.

All in all it's nice that there are still people who can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on special effects AND be able to give me a lump in my troath.

Stefancos- who will now begin the decorating of the Green tree.

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All in all it's nice that there are still people who can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on special effects AND be able to give me a lump in my troath.

That are my sentiments too...for different reasons... :P

Luke, who thinks that the movies are good :D

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Indeed. :thumbup:

Seriously, I've been posting brief comments here and there since I saw it, but I have to watch it again before I can write really long essays. :( Perhaps I'll go see it for the 2nd time tomorrow, but I'm not sure.

Marian - who has only 3 copies of the book (and 4 of The Hobbit).

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Say, does anyone know why Mortensen isn't on any of the commentaries? Is it a money thing? Does he just not want to do them? I mean, they even had Sean Bean and John Noble on TTT, for just that one scene.

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McKellen wasn't in the interviews either. I wish they hadn't had so many different recording sessions. They should have had 4-5 groups of 3-4, istead of only having Astin, Wood and Serkis and then having Boyd and Mognahan. Everyone else was alone.

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Just got back from the 2nd viewing. Loved it even more. Still thought the weakest parts were The Pyre of Denathor and Gollum bouncing around on Frodo. Although the shots were a lot shorter than I remember. Also I loved Smeagol Vs. Deagol even more after viewing two, absoulutly fantastic. I love the pumping sound effect.

Bring on viewing No. 3!!! :)

Justin -Who thinks the final trek up Mount Doom is brilliance beyond words, you just can describe the surge of emotions. The movie going experience of a lifetime. :)

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Yeah Justin, those are some weak points. I also like the editing the least in this one. If they'd toned down the flashbacks and slow-motion stuff, they might have had more time so they could show Denethor's Palantír or other plot points that were now left out. I also felt they got to Mt Doom too fast after Cirith Ungol, but I hear that bit from the book where Frodo and Sam are forced to walk along with a band of Orcs is going to be in the EE.

- Marc, who's going to see it a 2nd time today, this time, on a much larger screen. :)

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I still defend the "final confrontation" between Frodo and Gollum. Ok, so it does look a BIT goofy, but the point is, they manage to get across what happens. How would you film a fight between a mad CGI creature and an invisible hobbit and still make it clear that Gollum bites off Frodo's finger?

And there are several parts where I wasn't completely happy with the timing, but since I know the difference between TTT and TTT:EE, I won't complain about that before I've seen the full thing. Especially after those rumours that it might be longer than 4:50...

Marian - hoping Denethor's and Aragorn's Palantir scenes are in the long version.

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I still defend the "final confrontation" between Frodo and Gollum. Ok, so it does look a BIT goofy, but the point is, they manage to get across what happens. How would you film a fight between a mad CGI creature and an invisible hobbit and still make it clear that Gollum bites off Frodo's finger?

And there are several parts where I wasn't completely happy with the timing, but since I know the difference between TTT and TTT:EE, I won't complain about that before I've seen the full thing. Especially after those rumours that it might be longer than 4:50...

Marian - hoping Denethor's and Aragorn's Palantir scenes are in the long version.

1- Hiring ILM for the task? :nono:

I dont know if it is, but it should have been done by putting Eliah Wood on a blue outfit (as serkis) and put serkis on top of Wood and then substituting Serkis with Gollum. It is was filmed that way then i cannot understand the strange movements they made.

2- I'm the only one who thinks that TTT:EE additions are just a bunch of funny scenes with one or twi truly important? I think that FOTR:EE was handled better

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1- Hiring ILM for the task?

The CGI was fine. ILM would have done nothing diffrent. :roll:

I think a good way of handling it would have been through the "Ring view" like in bree or Amon Hen. It would have been interesting to see it. Although I don't really hate the sequence I simply think it could have been done better. :nono:

2- I'm the only one who thinks that TTT:EE additions are just a bunch of funny scenes with one or twi truly important? I think that FOTR:EE was handled better

I didn't find the Boromir, Faramir, Denathor flashback to be funny at all.

Justin -Who thinks the film needed a bit of humor though. 8O

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Yeah, Ring Vision might have been a way. Or not those big overview shots, but just Gollum wrestling, and Frodo then suddenly re-appearing, screaming, with one bleading stump on his hand.

- Marc, who just got back from a 2nd viewing. 8O

:nono: David Arnold - 1969 -- We Came In Peace from Independence Day (OST)

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2- I'm the only one who thinks that TTT:EE additions are just a bunch of funny scenes with one or twi truly important? I think that FOTR:EE was handled better

FOTR:EE had some very nice scenes. TTT:EE was a massive improvement in timing issues and fleshing out the characters.

Marian - who thinks TTT:EE was a FAR bigger improvement than FOTR:EE.

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I think the only big improvement was Faramir. The scene where Merry and Pippin find Saruman's secret stash is one of the worst in all three movies.

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1- Hiring ILM for the task?

The CGI was fine. ILM would have done nothing diffrent. :roll:

I think a good way of handling it would have been through the "Ring view" like in bree or Amon Hen. It would have been interesting to see it. Although I don't really hate the sequence I simply think it could have been done better. :)

2- I'm the only one who thinks that TTT:EE additions are just a bunch of funny scenes with one or twi truly important? I think that FOTR:EE was handled better

I didn't find the Boromir, Faramir, Denathor flashback to be funny at all.

Justin -Who thinks the film needed a bit of humor though. :)

1- If you say so... ;)

2- That's one of the scenes i called truly important...

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The CGI was great. Lately- ILM has been very unimpressive. AoTC the Clones the most fake and sterile movie I've ever seen, with effects to match, and Minority Report had pretty routin SFX, except for the Spyder scene, which Spielberg didn't think ILM could do, so he gave it to PDI.

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Minority Report had very good special effects, but didn't flaunt them like most summer blockbusters seem to.

I liked the way they were used in an almost matter of fact way (indeed, for people like Anderton, flying cars are as normal as regular cars are to us).

Stefancos- who thinks MR was one of the best films of that year, and is already underrated.

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Lord of the Rings 3 is gonna kick major ass, baby!

There's not even a LOTR 2 yet, far too early to worry about a LOTR 3.

Marian - ;)

Well, you'd have to have common sense to understand, as far as the MPAA is concerned they're three separate movies, and just like you may refer to them as FOTR, TTT and ROTK (their initials), I choose to refer to them by the numbered order in which they were released: The first one, #1, the second one, #2, and so forth.

And if you want to consider them as one, then you might as well sign a petition to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the Golden Globes and others that they should not consider in nominating a single award for these films since they're just one.

Hector - :):P

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I just dislike "LOTR 3" because it sounds like the second sequel to LOTR, whereas it is the third part...."LOTR part 3" would be a different story. :sigh:

Marian - who still prefers Tolkien's own naming: "The Return of the King, being the third part of The Lord of the Rings".

:wave: ROTK

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