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Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)


Jay

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I'd just love to hear the Baggins/Took theme...one last time.

Fuck Bard's family.

I would love to hear more of Bilbo's music in general, be it the Shire themes or his own. For a movie bearing the Hobbit title on top DoS had curiously little of him in the spotlight musically and filmically. But I guess it had to do with so much establishing the film had to get done for other things.

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Didn't they cut even the snippet when we first see Bard's family in DoS? Could suggest that they didn't in the end choose to emphasize this relationship thematically. Or they could have indeed saved it for the last film. Only Shore knows.

Correct, PJ dialed out the music in the final film during the Bard family homecoming.

I'd just love to hear the Baggins/Took theme...one last time.

Hopefully it is used MORE than once but yea, it'll be bullshit if it does't appear at all. Gorgeous theme.

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I would love to hear more of Bilbo's music in general, be it the Shire themes or his own. For a movie bearing the Hobbit title on top DoS had curiously little of him in the spotlight musically and filmically. But I guess it had to do with so much establishing the film had to get done for other things.

I was thinking about that the other day and I realized: The lack of Bilbo in DOS is a direct result of the 2->3 film split.

Think about it. As scripted and originally shot, Bilbo had a complete arc in each film.

Film 1: Rustled out of his peaceful existence in the Shire, ends up going on a trek and defeating trolls, goblins, and spiders and saving all the dwarves from capture, and finally accepted by Thorin at the end.

Film 2: Now has the courage to enter Smaug's chamber, steals the Arkenstone, helps win the Battle of Five Armies, returns home a changed hobbit.

All good, right? Two complete arcs, making total film-ic sense and sets up for awesome score momentum.

Now with the 3 film structure that wasn't scripted that way, we ended up with his first arc taking less time, and his second arc completely contained in the final movie, leaving film 2 empty of a Bilbo arc:

Film 1: Rustled out of his peaceful existence in the Shire, ends up going on a trek and defeating trolls and goblins, then gets accepted by Thorin at the end

Film 2: He defeats spiders, saves the dwarves from capture... but has already been accepted by Thorin, so... then he talks to Smaug, but we don't even know if he got the Arkenstone yet or not, so...

Film 3: Hides the Arkenstone from Thorin, uses the Arkenstone to barter peace, helps win the Battle of Five Armies, returns home a changed hobbit.

So that's why Bilbo's theme is barely featured in the current Film 2, and why many complain he doesn't have much to do - because he doesn't!

Again, it's all PJ's fault :)

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I didn't say it was a problem, I am explaining the lack of a character arc he has in the final DOS film, and that in the original 2 film structure, he had a character arc in each film.

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I've got a bad feeling about the Baggins-Took theme I must admit. Are we not concerned that the theme for Bard's family, in truth, sounds an awful lot like the Baggins part of it, suggesting Shore may have been trying to reconstitute it as another theme, knowing, perhaps, that it wouldn't be used for Bilbo again?

Again, am very happy to be proved wrong...

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I've got a bad feeling about the Baggins-Took theme I must admit. Are we not concerned that the theme for Bard's family, in truth, sounds an awful lot like the Baggins part of it, suggesting Shore may have been trying to reconstitute it as another theme, knowing, perhaps, that it wouldn't be used for Bilbo again?

Again, am very happy to be proved wrong...

I'm hoping with you, Barny!

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Jay you're supposed to say 'you will be proven wrong Barny', like with the music for the EE!

I just tried to explain the connection between Bilbo's theme and Bard's family!

Themes that should return in BOTFA:

Bilbo's Baggins Took full theme
Bilbo's Adventure full theme
Radagast's full theme
The companies theme from Edge of the Wild

Likelihood is low, but never have themes been completely cut from the film's before. Oh well, at least it'll be strongly connected to the themes of DOS.

I appreciate your attempt at an explanation SUH, but with all respect it's probably even less convincing than the Azog/Thorin/Ringwraith debacle.

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I'd just love to hear the Baggins/Took theme...one last time.

Fuck Bard's family.

I would love to hear more of Bilbo's music in general, be it the Shire themes or his own. For a movie bearing his name on top DoS had curiously little of him in the spotlight musically and filmically.

Musically I'll agree, but he's featured heavily throughout the film!

Alas it still felt to me he was left playing the second fiddle to all the other characters. It feels like a Thorin movie. Bilbo's accomplishments are simply not aknowledged very often and while it is nice to see that he is now part of the gang it would be nice if he stood out a little more. Has perhaps to do with the very populous cast of characters as the new film throws so many at you. Beorn, Bolg, Legolas, Thranduil, Tauriel, Bard, Bard's children, the master of the Lake-Town, Alfrid, Smaug. Plus you have to keep those dwarves in the picture too and have do something.

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The problem is that when they shot the Wilderland, Beorn, Mirkwood, and Woodland Realm sequences, Bilbo was supposed to still be the underdog no one wanted there that Thorin was still scoffing at. Their big bro-mance moment was supposed to happen after the Forest River chase. When that acceptance was moved way up to just after the Frying Pan sequence, we're left with this awkward sequence of events where as you say not much Bilbo does is acknowledged by anyone.

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The problem is that when they shot the Wilderland, Beorn, Mirkwood, and Woodland Realm sequences, Bilbo was supposed to still be the underdog no one wanted there that Thorin was still scoffing at. Their big bro-mance moment was supposed to happen after the Forest River chase. When that acceptance was moved way up to just after the Frying Pan sequence, we're left with this awkward sequence of events where as you say not much Bilbo does is acknowledged by anyone.

Yeah that is the very likely scenario.

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Hobbit Advisory: The track list currently floating around the web is a fakeroo!

Was there one? If so, was it pinched from that poster who came up with his own on TORN?

And no, I don't know when the real list is coming. Presumably soon, but I know they're keeping a very short leash on spoilers this time.

Might also explain the wait for the new trailer.

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0fbd2af8d21ef0c3228a988e07d46572_normal.Doug Adams @DougAdamsMusic · 33 mins 33 minutes ago

Hobbit Advisory: The track list currently floating around the web is a fakeroo!

Was there one? If so, was it pinched from that poster who came up with his own on TORN?

Yea I'm sure he's referring to this

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=123813902&do%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bsb%3Dpost_time%3Bso%3DDESC%3Bpost%3D787899=View+Flat+Mode#787899

0fbd2af8d21ef0c3228a988e07d46572_normal.Doug Adams @DougAdamsMusic · 29 mins 29 minutes ago

And no, I don't know when the real list is coming. Presumably soon, but I know they're keeping a very short leash on spoilers this time.

Might also explain the wait for the new trailer.

What does one have to do with the other?

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Ohhh I hope this means they don't release the whole score online early.

Why would you hope that? Don't you want to hear it?

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0fbd2af8d21ef0c3228a988e07d46572_normal.Doug Adams @DougAdamsMusic · 33 mins 33 minutes ago

Hobbit Advisory: The track list currently floating around the web is a fakeroo!

Was there one? If so, was it pinched from that poster who came up with his own on TORN?

Yea I'm sure he's referring to this

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?guest=123813902&do%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bsb%3Dpost_time%3Bso%3DDESC%3Bpost%3D787899=View+Flat+Mode#787899

0fbd2af8d21ef0c3228a988e07d46572_normal.Doug Adams @DougAdamsMusic · 29 mins 29 minutes ago

And no, I don't know when the real list is coming. Presumably soon, but I know they're keeping a very short leash on spoilers this time.

Might also explain the wait for the new trailer.

What does one have to do with the other?

Nothing. I was just referring to Warner's policy with regard to this film. It's been rather hush hush up to this point.

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OK, so you are planning on choosing not to listen to it. So how does it affect you if WB chooses to stream it to promote it or not?

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A comment from Peter Jackson in the recent Total Film article which grabbed me:

"Sometimes you don't know what's going to work until you've cut everything else and you've got the music"
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I like the sound of that Bilbo and Gandalf scene, but Tauriel worries me...just what the fuck is she doing? She best not fight with the Dwarves, because that would smoke all kinds of bone.

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What would be the problem of her fighting with the dwarves? I mean, the battle is all the various hero troops fighting the orcs and goblins of the enemy. Why wouldn't she be fighting alongside the good guys?

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Because I'd question how she got separated so much from the Elves at this point. I expect her to draw close to the Dwarves as the battle progresses (but don't get involved in the fate of a certain character, please) and it becomes more desperate, but at such an early stage I don't see why she'd be so far across the field - unless, that is, she started the fight alongside the Dwarves.

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Right. So wouldn't she stay and fight with them? What do you want her to do, drop 4 dwarves then say "See ya later!"?

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No - I want them to go off by themselves (why would she be guiding them?), and join the company in Erebor long before the fighting, which is exactly what appears to happen. They have armour in the trailer, which they must get from the armoury. Kili is alongside Thorin. They help in building the wall. The fighting doesn't start for a good while. You honestly expect Tauriel to remain with them throughout this?

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I have no idea, I never thought about it.

Maybe she shows up with Thranduil and they all fight alongside the dwarves and Laketown men together

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I have no idea, I never thought about it.

Maybe she shows up with Thranduil and they all fight alongside the dwarves and Laketown men together

That's what I expect/want to happen. I just don't understand why she'd disobey Thranduil at such an early stage of the battle. It's pretty ridiculous to think she'd abandon her own people to help some Dwarves during battle, however outnumbered they are (but then, she has already done that in DoS...) If you're going to have a more tolerant Elf character, then don't have her go too far in the opposite direction.

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I really don't think about this stuff much, I'm just planning on going to the theater and enjoying the film.

Really can't wait to hear the score.

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