ChrisAfonso 186 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'd think more along the lines of a-capella choir (as large as possible) and organ. Although, more cowbell can never hurt.No organ.Why not? Iluvatar would have to be differentiated from the Ainur in some way, also this would be difficult to achieve just with voices:"Then he raised up both his hands, and in one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Iluvatar, the Music ceased."If voices were used for this, they'd have to be amplified and put through a pitch-shift/chorus effect or something, to achieve that otherworldly range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 And how do you get voices to sound like Viols, lutes and harps.I'd think more along the lines of a-capella choir (as large as possible) and organ. Although, more cowbell can never hurt.No organ.Organs is one of the things the voices of the Ainur sounded like in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perdogg 1 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Ainulindalë alone would be a major challenge to any composer. A great opporturnity but also a great challenge.I would go with banjo and maracas.The Ainulindalë requires vuvuzelas for Melkor.The theme of Sauron sounds like that Shore consulted The Silmarilion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 And how do you get voices to sound like Viols, lutes and harps.You don't. You compose the piece for a huge orchestra and chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 To answer the thread's question:The movie route: 2.5 hours of Middle Earth mythology (we're looking at you, Eru Illuvitar and the Ainur), followed by Elven incest & fratricide (maybe even a cameo apperance of the Blue Wizards)The series route: Same thing, but stretched out over a mini series, with every other episode being about the exploits of a random Valar (except Morgoth. Hey, there's only so many times you can hit the snooze button on your 15 minutes of fame, The Artist Formerly Known as Melkor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Why not? Iluvatar would have to be differentiated from the Ainur in some way, also this would be difficult to achieve just with voices: "Then he raised up both his hands, and in one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Iluvatar, the Music ceased." If voices were used for this, they'd have to be amplified and put through a pitch-shift/chorus effect or something, to achieve that otherworldly range. Not good enough? Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Too Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 04 - In order to avoid controversial off-topic debates, political and religious references are NOT ALLOWED ON ANY OF THE FORUMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 . Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Then I guess you're out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,738 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 But... but... Tolkien was a Christian too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 But... but... Tolkien was a Christian too!So was C.S. Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 But... but... Tolkien was a Christian too! So was C.S. Lewis. So was Pope Adrian the Fifth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 But didn't Tolkien say that he avoided allegory while writing his work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 It's too early in the story for the names Morgoth or Bauglir to appear in the score!You don't understand the Jackson way of filmmaking: the main villain has to be introduced in the first scene of a film!And because you need three characters to make a scene interesting, we will see Iluvatar, Morgoth, and a random Valar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Why do we need to see Illuvatar in a Silmarillion movie? Did The Ten Commandments or Ben-Hur start with Creation and the Deluge? Just skip the Ainulindale, it's basically just a rehash of Genesis. But.. But... But we need to see how Melkor falls and gets evil to drive the story. Oh whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 In order to make The Silmarillion into any kind of effective film that reflects the book in any kind of effective way, it would have to be something akin to a fantasy-genre 2001: A Space Odyssey. That kind of visual emphasis, patience in revelation, and musical-centeredness. And I doubt that a) there's a director out there who could pull that off; b) that any current composer could tackle such a monumental undertaking (though it's certainly not impossible, but it shouldn't be Howard Shore); and c) audiences expecting something similar in sight and sound (musically) to the LOTR and Hobbit films will be disappointed, likely even angered, by any such result. There are a lot of folks who enjoyed the books who tried their hand at The Silmarillion and couldn't handle it. In order to be accurate to the novel in any way—as any filmmaker should be—they would have to expect a similar reaction to the movie. And why would any studio go in for that kind of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 What we need is an Attenborough style TV series. As I've been saying for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 True that! If someone had some good sense about them, they might realize that this is material that could rival Game of Thrones for extended storylines and material. I would still have to be styled in the right fashion—patiently, visually striking, musically huge—but I think that could be made to work. (It might even be cool if the action sequences were given a visual approach similar to the 300 movies.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The GOT soap opera plot style is all wrong for The Sil though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Because the stories aren't told in that sort of heavy-handed dramatic way, even if the content of them is somewhat similar. I can't think of an example of the way in which you'd have to approach adapting this book. It would really have to be entirely groundbreaking for it to not be shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 David Lynch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 It would really have to be entirely groundbreaking for it to not be shit.Definitely. But if such ground could be broken, I think it would be a great chance to show people something they've never seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jim Henson could have done The Sil justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 RedBard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jim Henson could have done The Sil justiceWith Frank Oz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 It's too early in the story for the names Morgoth or Bauglir to appear in the score!You don't understand the Jackson way of filmmaking: the main villain has to be introduced in the first scene of a film!And because you need three characters to make a scene interesting, we will see Iluvatar, Morgoth, and a random Valar.Manwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 "If"? I think the matter is "when". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,493 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ...I'd kill myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Excellent contribution as always! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Always wasn't the best contribution Spielberg did to cinema, but OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jim Henson could have done The Sil justiceWith Frank Oz!Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 There's a joke to be made with The Wizard Of Oz, but I just can't find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 A wizard of Oz is never late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Except the Wizard of Oz isn't a very good wizard. He's a humbug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think The Silmarillion's more suitable as a resource for drawing various stories from (for cinematic adaptation) independently rather than something to turn in to one film or sequence of films. The story of Túrin, for example, could provide the basis for a film of more than one installment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think The Silmarillion's more suitable as a resource for drawing various stories from (for cinematic adaptation) independently rather than something to turn in to one film or sequence of films. The story of Túrin, for example, could provide the basis for a film of more than one installment.I dunno, I suppose you could pull off a "standalone" film of the Turin story, but I don't think you could do a Beren and Luthien movie without explaining atleast some of the backstory of the Silmarils and Morgoth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 ...I don't think you could do a Beren and Luthien movie without explaining atleast some of the backstory of the Silmarils and Morgoth. I'd say that the relevant backstory could be conveyed without requiring a full adaptation. The Lord of the Rings didn't tell much about Sauron or Rings of Power or the Last Alliance, but got enough across for casual viewers to know who the goodies and baddies were and what was at stake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How would you condense these?Explanation of who the Valar are (easy to do though) and Morgoth's BackstoryOf Feanor, his sons, the making of the Silmarils, and the Oath and Doom stuff.Felagund's backstoryThingol and Melian's backstoryBeren's backstory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How would you condense these? How many films (no more than five hours each, if possible) am I allowed to do it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 1 3-hour film with the option of a 4-hour EE if needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Ouch! A short? I don't think I can commit to that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think The Silmarillion's more suitable as a resource for drawing various stories from (for cinematic adaptation) independently rather than something to turn in to one film or sequence of films. The story of Túrin, for example, could provide the basis for a film of more than one installment.I dunno, I suppose you could pull off a "standalone" film of the Turin story, but I don't think you could do a Beren and Luthien movie without explaining atleast some of the backstory of the Silmarils and Morgoth. I think The Beren/Luthien tale could possibly be made into a standalone film (it's a bit more standalone than your average Silmarillion chapter, and even stands a bit on its own by being the only Tolkien tale (to my knowledge) to mention vampires), and perhaps the Akallabêth as well, but not much else. Most of the rest gets much of its impact by being a part of the whole cycle. However, Akallabêth should perhaps really be turned into an opera... But before we continue, I move that nobody who gets less than 20/20 in this quiz is qualified to participate in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I got 18 out of 20 and my opinions are still valid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Got 20! I'm good.Let's banish Steef from the Tolkien subforum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 My Akallabêth opera should be done in twenty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Got 20! I'm good.Let's banish Steef from the Tolkien subforum!You are 16, your memory is better! Haven't read the Sil in about 6 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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