Balahkay 627 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I gave this score another listen earlier today and it always takes my breath away no matter how times I hear it. Why didn't Williams take home the Oscar for this score? Did he have too many Oscars at that time? Was the score not well received back in 1980? Some of the contenders were very good, but ESB is arguably the best score of 1980 and quite possibly one of the greatest ever written. To create a score at least equal to the original Star Wars is quite an achievement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Wow. The competition that year was not exactly... formidable, with the exception of Corigliano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Sequels are always tricky when it comes Oscars. No excuses in '81 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dole 17 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Don't try to figure out the Oscars' score choices. Gustavo Santaolalla has as many Oscars as Bernard Herrmann, Thomas Newman, Jerry Goldsmith, and Alex North combined. Fame had songs, so it won, just like The Wizard of Oz, Thoroughly Modern Millie, One Night of Love, and some Disney films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Don't try to figure out the Oscars' score choices. Gustavo Santaolalla has as many Oscars as Bernard Herrmann, Thomas Newman, Jerry Goldsmith, and Alex North combined. Fame had songs, so it won, just like The Wizard of Oz, Thoroughly Modern Millie, One Night of Love, and some Disney films. QFT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Yeah but The Wizard of Oz has a great score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The Menken Oscars were also mostly deserved, although it really should have been in a category separate from the non-musical contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 The Menken Oscars were also mostly deserved, although it really should have been in a category separate from the non-musical contenders. Agreed. His music is really amazing, especially when you listen to it in expanded form. "Beauty and the Beast" is my favorite animated film score. I also think he should have won for "Hunchback."Don't try to figure out the Oscars' score choices.You're probably right. I would have voted for you if I was old enough. I guess Williams can't win them all in the same way Meryl Streep can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Yeah but The Wizard of Oz has a great score.QFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dole 17 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Yeah but The Wizard of Oz has a great score.Yes, it's a great score. But it won in the "original score" category instead of the "scoring" category, and Stothart's score (magnificent and beautifully orchestrated as it is) leans heavily on Harold Arlen's songs, as well as pieces by Mendelssohn and Mussorgsky. It's too bad that Prokofiev's outstanding score for Alexander Nevsky wasn't nominated that year. The Menken Oscars were also mostly deserved, although it really should have been in a category separate from the non-musical contenders. I think Menken's best score is the one he didn't win for: The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I don't really object to most of Menken's wins (although Goldsmith really should have won over Aladdin for Basic Instinct). I was just pointing out that Menken's wins (and Zimmer's for The Lion King) are probably attributable to the fact that he was scoring popular musicals. Academy voters often seem to think musicals = Best Original Score & Best Sound Mixing Oscars. I think that's why Stothart probably won for The Wizard of Oz in a year in which Gone with the Wind was so dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 He'd just won it for Star Wars, maybe regular academy members didn't see the nuances of TESBHe should have won for Superman or Raiders though, if you had to give him one more Oscar from 1975-1985I also think when a film has catchy songs, the academy members can't separate it from the score and give it the best score Oscar (Menken) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Yeah but The Wizard of Oz has a great score.Yes, it's a great score. But it won in the "original score" category instead of the "scoring" category, and Stothart's score (magnificent and beautifully orchestrated as it is) leans heavily on Harold Arlen's songs, as well as pieces by Mendelssohn and Mussorgsky. It's too bad that Prokofiev's outstanding score for Alexander Nevsky wasn't nominated that year. The Menken Oscars were also mostly deserved, although it really should have been in a category separate from the non-musical contenders. I think Menken's best score is the one he didn't win for: The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I don't really object to most of Menken's wins (although Goldsmith really should have won over Aladdin for Basic Instinct). I was just pointing out that Menken's wins (and Zimmer's for The Lion King) are probably attributable to the fact that he was scoring popular musicals. Academy voters often seem to think musicals = Best Original Score & Best Sound Mixing Oscars. I think that's why Stothart probably won for The Wizard of Oz in a year in which Gone with the Wind was so dominant. Agreed 100% (except I haven't heard Basic Instinct)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I gave this score another listen earlier today and it always takes my breath away no matter how times I hear it. Why didn't Williams take home the Oscar for this score? Did he have too many Oscars at that time? Was the score not well received back in 1980? Some of the contenders were very good, but ESB is arguably the best score of 1980 and quite possibly one of the greatest ever written. To create a score at least equal to the original Star Wars is quite an achievement...No score by JW is regarded higher at this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I also think it's JW's best score of all time, and best score ever in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 That would be E.T., king mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I have several JW scores above E.T. It's still in the top 10 somewhere but.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Maybe AMPAS just thought that "Fame" was a better score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I agree on the supremacy of ESB and on it being most probably the best film score of all times. The first Star Wars and E. T. are close contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 ESB is tied with Conan the Barbarian as my all time favorite score. ET is not even in my top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Every now and then we have a "best JW score" poll and ESB is always the victor. That being said, E.T. usually occupies the top spot for my personal favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 While I love Empire, I find it a bit overrated...somehow. A favorite, sure. But sometimes, I wonder. Even in the universe of John Williams scores, is it really better than Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman or E.T.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 For me: Easily! Two of those wouldn't even make my top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Where the hell is Joey to back me up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 While I love Empire, I find it a bit overrated...somehow. A favorite, sure. But sometimes, I wonder. Even in the universe of John Williams scores, is it really better than Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman or E.T.?All these scores are practically perfect, considering also the movies they were written for. By coincidence I am listening to E. T. again in these days after quite a long time, and it has "genius" written all over it. I just find that, for me, listening to ESB separated from the movie is a (slightly) more satisfying emotional and dramatic experience. These aspects are of course due also to the movies that inspired these compositions. There is no question in my mind about the fact that all of these scores are musical masterpieces that show a display of technical skills and inventiveness comparable to those of the greatest composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 While I love Empire, I find it a bit overrated...somehow. A favorite, sure. But sometimes, I wonder. Even in the universe of John Williams scores, is it really better than Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman or E.T.?All of those scores are so good that I consider them equal in greatness. I would also include Return of the Jedi and Raiders of the Lost Ark in that list. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 The scope and epicness of TESB outclasses all those other ones mentioned .It's like there's not a wasted note in the entire score A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 The scope and epicness of TESB outclasses all those other ones mentioned .It's like there's not a wasted note in the entire scoreQFT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 AAFL-AP. Sent from my XT1058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 The scope and epicness of TESB outclasses all those other ones mentioned .It's like there's not a wasted note in the entire scoreQFT!TESB has that in common with several JW scores of that era. Superman and Raiders are also really big scores, but beatifully functional without a single wasted note, chord or bit of orchestration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Totally disagree with you there. Raiders is maybe like that, but definitely not Superman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 How is Superman different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,829 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Where the hell is Joey to back me up?Will I do? E.T. is the best score Williams has ever written and perhaps the best score generally!If anyone listens to the complete score (without the visuals) it has a perfect structure, with great development, and tight unity among its themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm really not as huge a fan of the Superman score as many people here are. It wouldn't even crack my top 10 Williams scores, maybe not even my top 20. Like the movie, I love the opening Krypton stuff, the Smallville stuff, the Fortress of Solitude sequence, and the beginning of the Metropolis sequence. Then after that my interest significantly starts to wane. The second and third acts of the film and score don't live up to the first for me. The first act is brilliant, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Superman isn't in your top twenty, while your number one is, what, Hook? You might want to campaign extra good when the next moderator elections are held. Sent from my XT1058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm really not as huge a fan of the Superman score as many people here are. It wouldn't even crack my top 10 Williams scores, maybe not even my top 20. Like the movie, I love the opening Krypton stuff, the Smallville stuff, the Fortress of Solitude sequence, and the beginning of the Metropolis sequence. Then after that my interest significantly starts to wane. The second and third acts of the film and score don't live up to the first for me. The first act is brilliant, though.I agree. Why didn't Donner make the whole movie about farms and fields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Superman isn't in your top twenty, while your number one is, what, Hook? You might want to campaign extra good when the next moderator elections are held.Sent from my XT1058My #1 vacillates between Hook and TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Gotta agree with Jason about Superman. End Credits, alternates and concert suites aside, there's hardly anything on discs 2 or 8 of the Blue Box that I consider truly essential or mind-blowing. It's just not as interesting as the first half of the score. And I'm sorry, but there are dead spots in every presentation of E.T. aside from the original LP. TESB on the other hand, is truly brilliant from start to finish no matter which release you're listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 There is no track in SW or TESB I'd consider skipping. Even ROTJ has some skippable music (the music before and after the Rancor battle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I LOVE that music!It's better than the first Cantina Band track, incidentally Wojo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 They are both great. The second one actually plays in the film for way longer than the first track does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 The only Williams music I consider skippable are his scores between 1994 and 1998 (even Saving Private Ryan and The Lost World) except for possibly "Stepmom," which I've been warming up to after viewing the film again and subsequent soundtrack listens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm really not as huge a fan of the Superman score as many people here are. It wouldn't even crack my top 10 Williams scores, maybe not even my top 20. Like the movie, I love the opening Krypton stuff, the Smallville stuff, the Fortress of Solitude sequence, and the beginning of the Metropolis sequence. Then after that my interest significantly starts to wane. The second and third acts of the film and score don't live up to the first for me. The first act is brilliant, though.Thats nog the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm really not as huge a fan of the Superman score as many people here are. It wouldn't even crack my top 10 Williams scores, maybe not even my top 20. Like the movie, I love the opening Krypton stuff, the Smallville stuff, the Fortress of Solitude sequence, and the beginning of the Metropolis sequence. Then after that my interest significantly starts to wane. The second and third acts of the film and score don't live up to the first for me. The first act is brilliant, though.Thats nog the point!This isn't the Deep Space Nine thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 TESB on the other hand, is truly brilliant from start to finish no matter which release you're listening to.Only if you like the Imperial March.I'm really not as huge a fan of the Superman score as many people here are. It wouldn't even crack my top 10 Williams scores, maybe not even my top 20. Like the movie, I love the opening Krypton stuff, the Smallville stuff, the Fortress of Solitude sequence, and the beginning of the Metropolis sequence. Then after that my interest significantly starts to wane. The second and third acts of the film and score don't live up to the first for me. The first act is brilliant, though.Maybe its a problem with your interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm with Jason on this - the last part of the score doesn't have a whole lot to offer for me, as far as listening on album goes. I love the Superman March but don't need to hear variations of it for 30 minutes. Love everything up through The Flying Sequence, though, so much that Superman would most likely crack my top 10 Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I love the Superman March but don't need to hear variations of it for 30 minutes. Thankfully there are other themes in those 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Gotta agree with Jason about Superman. End Credits, alternates and concert suites aside, there's hardly anything on discs 2 or 8 of the Blue Box that I consider truly essential or mind-blowing. It's just not as interesting as the first half of the score. And I'm sorry, but there are dead spots in every presentation of E.T. aside from the original LP. TESB on the other hand, is truly brilliant from start to finish no matter which release you're listening to.Dead spots, what the fuck did I just read? So you're saying everything from The Truck Convoy to the end titles of Superman (including March of the Villains and the love theme) is not essential or mind-blowing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 That is a constant criticism of that score that I find rather dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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