Score 770 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I have to say, my favourite cue from the score (and one of my favourite post 2000 Williams cues) is the chorus piece heard in the Journey through Ice scene. (which in reality is the 2nd version he did)It's also my favourite cue from the score, I think it's the most interesting one. The way he managed to put together the initial choir part "à la Barber", which has defined tonal suggestions, with the mysterious second part and its aleatoric gestures in the orchestra, and the way he let the choir flow into the latter sounding so "natural", is something that I have heard only from Williams. And the greatness of the score for A.I. is that it contains cues of so many different styles and moods, ranging from this one to the completely tonal (and beautiful) cue of the vocal end credits, which features one of the most moving themes ever written by Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Ahem....http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24424&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,979 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 My post from this very thread. One year and two weeks ago. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I actually disagree with myself in that thread. The album is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 from 01:40 from 01:35 Siblings.... Gruesome Son of a Bitch and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 We only hear it during the end credits, right?Neither version of the song is included in any part of the film at all, not even the end credits. If I remember well, it was conceived as a tie-in product by the record company, hoping the success of the film would drive sells of the OST album and maybe help push the celebrity of the two up-and-coming popstars.That's what I thought! They wanted to create another Céline Dion. The song itself and the voice of Lara Fabian make the intent kinda obvious. If they actually used it for the end titles they could've had a hit single on their hands. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Okay, as promised, here's the CD vs. DVD-A comparison with WAV statistics:CD (44.1/16)http://postimg.org/image/7hjw3s0t1/DVD-A (2CH 88.2/24)http://postimg.org/image/hmvozfcff/DVD-A (5.1 downmixed to 2.0 and normalized 88.2/24)http://postimg.org/image/u1clawbw7/Not very good, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Why cant i see any pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 It might have made more sense to use the same scale for all three pics; In the first you go up to 20khz, but in the next two you go up to 40khz Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Stefan, I tried to attach the images to the post, but it went full resolution and the post would look huge... is there a way to reduce it just for the post and view in full scale once you click on it?Jay, I didn't get what you mean... the last two are from the DVD-A, which is in full 88.2kHz. The spectral view will naturally show a window with frequency response all the way up to 44.1kHz per channel. But that doesn't mean it will HAVE all of those frequencies. As you can see, it's limited to about 20kHz per channel, even in the DVD-A. Now the first is from the CD itself, which is in 44.1kHz (22.05kHz per channel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Doesn't the MB resize the pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I was there on opening day to see A.I. I thought it would be a return to form for Spielberg. The projector broke during the scene where David is talking with the alien robot and we were just as bored as when the film was actually playing at that point.I remember that after David is abandoned in the woods and the screen went to black and the film seemed to switch focus to the robo-pimp, I thought it would be like an anthology film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 It didn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 What phbart is trying to say is that the DVD-Audio tracks didn't live up to their full bandwidth/frequency range potential. It appears that the source material (possibly the CD master) was simply up-sampled from 44.1 kHz to 88.2 kHz, which doesn't add any new frequency content above the 22.05 kHz bandwidth of the CD. This is what's illustrated in the spectrogram images that phbart posted. Up-sampling it simply increased the data rate by a factor of two with no true gain in audio quality. Granted, the 5.1 mix is all new but could have simply been provided at 44.1 kHz as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 That's exactly what I meant! You chose better words to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 it's fake! See you can tell with the cross sections. fommes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Does anyone know the particulars regarding the master recordings of the score? Digital or analog? If digital, what sampling rate (44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, etc.)? If the master recordings were digital and sampled at anything less than 88.2, then other than for the 5.1 mix, the DVD-Audio disc is worthless.(I say this as one who bought it back during its initial release, without really thinking it through... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Really curious to hear what this thing sounds like. On the OST and FYC, it has this like ambient hiss noise that is very distracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I was there on opening day to see A.I. I thought it would be a return to form for Spielberg. The projector broke during the scene where David is talking with the alien robot and we were just as bored as when the film was actually playing at that point.I remember that after David is abandoned in the woods and the screen went to black and the film seemed to switch focus to the robo-pimp, I thought it would be like an anthology film.I was there opening night. It was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 A.I. was recorded digitally, for sure. I'll try to find out the sampling rate if I can.The album hiss is hopefully a product of the mastering and not the mix. Even if it was part of the mix, a new mastering could definitely lessen it without degrading any audio quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 A.I. was recorded digitally, for sure. I'll try to find out the bitrate if I can."Sampling rate", to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 A.I. was recorded digitally, for sure. I'll try to find out the bitrate if I can.The album hiss is hopefully a product of the mastering and not the mix. Even if it was part of the mix, a new mastering could definitely lessen it without degrading any audio quality.Bit rate?You mean sample rate, right?Edit: oh, thx99 already dealt with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Cremers disease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Not at all. Sometimes I respond before reading all the posts that follow. Plus, Jay's mistake needed to be accentuated. The noise seems to me an accumulation of all the channels of mixing console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Thanks for uploading those frequency response images for the various formats, phbart. Did you rip the discs and analyse the tracks yourself? I'll admit it's curious that the "Advanced Resolution" DVD-A surround and stereo tracks have the same frequency response as the standard CD... but are encoded with a 88.2 kHz sampling rate, which means that they (theoretically) could have a frequency response up to 44.1 kHz. Maybe it was a "deliberate creative decision" to limit the frequency response to 22.05 kHz.Even if the frequency response of the DVD-A was limited to 22.05 kHz doesn't necessarily mean that the sampling rate was simply up-converted from 44.1 kHz to 88.2 kHz. The sound engineer could have simply hard-limited the frequency response for the DVD-A tracks. But the benefits of having doubly-more-frequent samples (88,200 per second compared to 44,100) would result in a smoother sound.Also, frequency response is not the only determining factor of sound quality. The sample size of the CD is, of course, 16-bit. But the "Advanced Resolution" tracks of the DVD-A are 24-bit, which will yield more detailed sound... if they are truly 24-bit -- and not up-converted.I have a fan-edited double CD A.I. soundtrack, but I never listened to it and have no idea of its source material... or if it's tracks have been modified. It's most likely a combination of the official CD, Academy promo, and DVD-rip. I'll compare it with the DVD-A and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 A.I. was recorded by Shawn Murphy in 2001 at 48 khz / 24 bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 *ruined* by Shawn Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Probably his worst ever sounding score The guy who recorded Willow recorded that? Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 A.I. was recorded by Shawn Murphy in 2001 at 48 khz / 24 bit.What's your source? I was under the impression that Shawn Murphy usually records using analogue reel-to-reel tape. Maybe he -- likely with Williams' and/or Spielberg's approval -- decided to record the score digitally to give it a colder sound. I'm very much looking forward to hearing Mr. Matessino's finished product.If the score was recorded at 48 kHz, that could be one of the causes of the sound being off on the official disc releases. Having to down-convert sampling rates that don't evenly match (48-to-44.1 for CD... or 48to-88.2 for the DVD-A) can be a lossy process if not done properly. The DVD-A should have been simply encoded at 48 kHz / 24 bit. Why it's not is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 What if the remastered score is just a revelation on this set...God, I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Frankly the DVD-A just sounds like a rush job made in the early days of the medium. Shame, but I'm sure it wasn't the only DVD-A to be a fake upsample from a 16/44.1 album master! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 What if the remastered score is just a revelation on this set...God, I hope so.What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 He is saying he hopes the remastering makes the score sound significantly better than the OST did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well... that would be the goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Samples will be up on LLL's site in less than 17 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,160 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Probably his worst ever sounding scoreThe guy who recorded Willow recorded that?There's years between Willow and A.I.. What's more mind boggling is that at the time of A.I. (starting around Seven Years in Tibet), all his Williams recordings sounded bad, while his Horner and JNH still sound fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 In your opinion, when did Williams recordings get better again? I mean, all his 2010s scores sound fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 They don't sound bad in the 2010s, but they don't sound great either. The standard I hold all Williams scores to: classic LSO recordings (Star Wars Trilogy may be problematic since 1997, but that's the fault of those remasters/remixes--listen to the older releases), E.T. and Temple of Doom. These are definitive unmatched recordings. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I don't dislike Murphy's work. His Potter sound is the benchmark for what I want symphonic music to sound like, along with Shore/Kurlander. I prefer it to the drier punchy sound of the Star Wars trilogy, but I know many disagree. And obviously that's right for the music - Williams scores always have the proper recording aesthetic for the character of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,326 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 E.T. and Temple of Doom. These are definitive unmatched recordings.So basically, Williams scores recorded by Bruce Botnick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 E.T. and Temple of Doom. These are definitive unmatched recordings.So basically, Williams scores recorded by Bruce Botnick? Or Tomlinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I don't dislike Murphy's work. His Potter sound is the benchmark for what I want symphonic music to sound like, along with Shore/Kurlander.Rhodes did the first 2 Potters, Murphy only did the third Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 That's what I mean. Although I like the Rhodes sound too - even wetter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I vastly prefer the Rhodes sound on the Potter scores. It's warmer Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah but would POA have worked with that sound? It's a much less florid sort of score than the first two. Like I said, the sound fits the music appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Or the music is responsible for the sound in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,326 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Or the music is responsible for the sound in the first place.Or the music causes the sound to be the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I mean, all his 2010s scores sound fantasticThe Book Thief and War Horse don't sound that great to me. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Or the music is responsible for the sound in the first place.Or the music causes the sound to be the way it is.That's what I said! I mean, all his 2010s scores sound fantasticThe Book Thief and War Horse don't sound that great to me.Modern JW scores tend to sound OK, but never amazing. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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