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Star Trek Into Darkness (The Big Bad Star Trek (X)II Thread)


John Crichton

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I'm looking forward to Giacchino's score for the Star Trek sequel. Hopefully it'll be as good as the first one. I'm hoping if Varèse releases it they won't "rape" the score for this one like they did for the first one.

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You know, I'm very grateful for the Varese release, but there are issues with it (micro-editing, missing choir, missing instruments from one cue, some strange editing flow choices etc.).

If you're referring to the "rape" statement above, it is in context an echo of the humorous "rape" reference in the post above, perhaps making a joke while also making his point.

I don't see ingratitude. :)

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I'm looking forward to Giacchino's score for the Star Trek sequel. Hopefully it'll be as good as the first one. I'm hoping if Varèse releases it they won't "rape" the score for this one like they did for the first one.

hopefully it will be better than his weak first effort.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I imagine an ideal Star Trek film as the story of the Enterprise discovering some new place with some few neat sci-fi concepts going on and a fun adventure happening there, with lots of action mixed up with characters moments and a complex resolution, maybe a huge dilemma or something.

Or a journey between several places like that. With echoes to Master and Commander.

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Yes, but at least the plot of First Contact: The Movie has nothing to do with the plot of First Contact: The Episode.

Don't forget, "Nemesis" was the title of a fourth season episode of Voyager, and those plots have nothing to do with each other.

I can forgive Star Trek 2009 for showing something that was only mentioned in The Wrath of Khan. In TWOK, we learn that he gets a medal for creative thinking. In ST 2009, the changes to the timeline that affected Kirk's character make him a confrontational smartass, and he's brought before a hearing to be put on academic probation. TWOK didn't tell us if he was brought before a hearing, we only learn that he ultimately got a medal and kudos.

Whether he ultimately would have gotten the medal in 2009 is unknown because the attack on Vulcan interrupted the proceedings.

All the TNG movies were a mess because they destroyed the concepts of an ensemble cast working together to defeat their foes. They turned Data and Picard into action heroes because that's what sells movie tickets: action.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't think it he will be Khan either. Aren't the Klingons supposed to be the main villains for the next film? If so I can see him being a Klingon Captain out to get Kirk and the Enterprise.

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Khan works as a great villain -- nay, the greatest Star Trek villain ever -- because he has a history with Kirk and we already know what it is.

When Chekhov realizes what vessel it is they find on Ceti Alpha "VI," the Trekkies know what they're in for. Yes, when Khan reveals his face -- and the fact it's Ceti Alpha V -- Captain Terrell (as the Star Trek "newbies") requires a few minutes to hear Khan's back story.

But Chekhov doesn't. His subdued exclamation of shock says it all. We say "Space Seed," we know he's bad news, and bringing Khan back into Star Trek current events is unwise.

In JJ Abrams' universe, Khan is potentially still floating around in space, frozen in the Botany Bay. But he hasn't met Kirk yet, or tried to take over his ship. He hasn't been marooned on a planet with a beautiful wife but left to die when nobody checked in on him. He has no vendetta against Kirk.

In the prime universe, Kirk and Spock were the best of friends, but in JJ Abrams' universe, they were bitter rivals until the prime Spock intervened to "set it right" because he was partially responsible for this altered past universe being created. So to assume that Kirk and Khan will still meet as they "should" and also become bitter rivals is, like Chaac said, to render the idea of a rebooted universe also rebooting the story options totally moot.

In JJ Abrams' rebooted universe, Khan is very bad villain material.

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But Chekhov was not part of the show yet at the time of Space Seed. He should not know Khan, and Khan should not know him. (there is some fanboy revisionism that suggests that Chekhov was already a crew member in season one, but that's just twaddle)

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That is very true, and if that's the only glaring error in Nicholas Meyer's movie, we've had almost thirty years to live with it.

After all, Khan did study the crew manifest. Maybe he studied the manifest of all of Starfleet, if there is such a thing and the Enterprise would have access to it. Then he would have seen Chekhov in the database.

But Terrell is far older than Chekhov, and Khan doesn't know Terrell, and he would definitely be in the Starfleet crew manifest. Whoops.

Yes, for someone who "never forget a face," Khan never had the chance to learn that face in a convincing manner. The "twaddle" is the only viable option and we're just supposed to forget it.

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Ya they did mess up on that big time. Well they needed Chekov in the movie and had to incorporate it some how. Maybe there was the viable explanation that he was part of the Enterprise crew and we just never saw him in that episode. Of course we all know he wasn't actually there but still.

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All they had to do was swap Sulu and Chekhov. Transfer Sulu to Reliant and keep Chekhov on Enterprise, and take advantage of people who think their jobs are interchangeable. If your superior officer tells you to do something or you've been transferred, then your job function can change.

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The writers speculated that they would like to use Klingons as villains for the sequel when they were explaining why they didn't use them for the 2009 movie. So it's the soundest bet we got.

I have a big issue with stars playing villains in Star Trek films. First of all because, outside Montalban, none of them seemed to take the material any seriously. And second, because villains are usually humanoid aliens -- that is, actors under a ton of make up. Seeing recognizable faces under that make-up (Christopher Lloyd, F. Murray Abraham) makes them look just silly.

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Khan works as a great villain -- nay, the greatest Star Trek villain ever -- because he has a history with Kirk and we already know what it is.

...

In JJ Abrams' universe, Khan is potentially still floating around in space, frozen in the Botany Bay. But he hasn't met Kirk yet, or tried to take over his ship. He hasn't been marooned on a planet with a beautiful wife but left to die when nobody checked in on him. He has no vendetta against Kirk.

...

In JJ Abrams' rebooted universe, Khan is very bad villain material.

I agree with most people that having Khan as the villain in this next one is a dumb idea, and it's stupid that people keep expecting him to be the villian.

That having been said... there's no reason the upcoming film would have to be a re-working Wrath of Khan. Couldn't a more plausible idea be a re-working of Space Seed itself? Kirk & co's first encounter with Khan totally re-imagined. We could see the crew finding the Botany Bay and getting on friendly terms with them, quite naively, and then WHAM! Khan and his gang go all bad-ass on the crew and take over.

I still don't think they'd go the way-too-obvious route of doing Khan for the next film, but still I suppose that Space Seed scenario could be a possibility.

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I'd like to see them go with something totally different, and maybe a "space cloud" obstacle instead of more villainous shenanigans. The whole "to explore..." bit hasn't really been properly used since DS9, so instead of cannibalizing Star Wars I'd like to see JJ do something different.

Then again, when you have those screenwriters to work with, you're probably incredibly limited in your scope.

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Space cloud again? Didn't they exhaust that with TMP?

How can doing that again be interesting?

I want something new!

Mmmh that depends with how much they just want to obtain money.

Don't watch any Star Trek then, because it's success never lied with it's originality.

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