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Video games can never be art


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The famous 2010 article by Roger Ebert

http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-never-be-art

I agree with this point.

Why are gamers so intensely concerned, anyway, that games be defined as art? Bobby Fischer, Michael Jordan and Dick Butkus never said they thought their games were an art form. Nor did Shi Hua Chen, winner of the $500,000 World Series of Mah Jong in 2009. Why aren't gamers content to play their games and simply enjoy themselves? They have my blessing, not that they care.

Do they require validation? In defending their gaming against parents, spouses, children, partners, co-workers or other critics, do they want to be able to look up from the screen and explain, "I'm studying a great form of art?" Then let them say it, if it makes them happy.

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But it's actually a very valid point.

They are computer GAMES. So there's a challenge, in some games you are competing against others. This doesn't really happen in art.

Is a well designed game then not akin to a well designed Formula 1 car, rather then the Mona Lisa?

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Am I the only one around here wise enough to not feel the need to embrace wildly sweeping generalizations about art?

"Music can never be art. Why are musicians intensely concerned with being considered artists? Do they need validation? Can't they be content to enjoy their music and leave *dramatic voice* true art to the more cultured among us?"

I like Ebert as a guy who talked about movies, but here he's being a pretentious old twat.

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Ebert went so far off the deep end with this one that he admitted he erred later:

I should not have written that entry without being more familiar with the actual experience of video games.

http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/okay-kids-play-on-my-lawn

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What isn't art, you ask?! According to a certain understanding and definition of the word: That what is not the very best of a certain kind of creativity. Something that doesn't rise about the common and the ordinary.

Alex

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oscar-robertson-cincinnati.jpg

"I believe basketball is an art. When the game is played as it should be played, you'll see athletes perform with precision, finesse, rhythm, flair, and grace." - Oscar Robertson

Ok, fair point well made. Sport, at the highest level can indeed become art.

However....most gamers are NOT athletes, like most people who play on their local soccer team, or play in the pub darts pool aren't athletes.

Are there any professional leagues when it comes to computer games? Who is the Lionel Messi of World of Warcraft?

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oscar-robertson-cincinnati.jpg

"I believe basketball is an art. When the game is played as it should be played, you'll see athletes perform with precision, finesse, rhythm, flair, and grace." - Oscar Robertson

Ok, fair point well made. Sport, at the highest level can indeed become art.

However....most gamers are NOT athletes, like most people who play on their local soccer team, or play in the pub darts pool aren't athletes.

Are there any professional leagues when it comes to computer games? Who is the Lionel Messi of World of Warcraft?

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Why are gamers so intensely concerned, anyway, that games be defined as art? Bobby Fischer, Michael Jordan and Dick Butkus never said they thought their games were an art form. Nor did Shi Hua Chen, winner of the $500,000 World Series of Mah Jong in 2009. Why aren't gamers content to play their games and simply enjoy themselves? They have my blessing, not that they care.

Do they require validation? In defending their gaming against parents, spouses, children, partners, co-workers or other critics, do they want to be able to look up from the screen and explain, "I'm studying a great form of art?" Then let them say it, if it makes them happy.

Because, like film music, video games still are a neglected type of media/art (however you classify them) that isn't taken seriously, or understood, by a lot of people.

Also, you're mixing two very different aspects about games: The act of playing them, like the act of driving a F1 car or watching a film (is watching a film art? Hardly - but playing whatever kind of game can perhaps, in advanced cases, be) and the actual game itself - which, like a film, is a multimedial piece of work that may very well be classified as art if other types of media are. There's visual design, music, storytelling, technical implementation, overall concept and, additionally, an interactive component. And doesn't art nowadays often rely more heavily on the interaction between medium and recipient than on the actual content? There's a wide range of innovation and quality, of course, but especially in video games, you can have very abstract creations that just provide a unique experience of some kind, like an abstract piece of art.

Ultimately though, even by more traditional means, I'd definitely call well designed games art, in the same way I do with films. And the same goes for tabletop games (which are of course much more restricted and mostly lack the multimedial component).

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As I said, there's a distinction to be made. I don't think video gaming as sport is art. Not up to now, anyway.

But played alone, in an intricately designed world? That's another story.

A great single player game world (and narrative) can be visionary art. I've experienced it, on occasion. There's nothing else like it.

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If Journey isn't art, I don't know what is.

I know its visual style was strong artistically, but would you say the gameplay aesthetic itself was extraordinary and even profound?

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I think some videogames are a form of artwork just as much as movies. I can get more involved emotionally in the story of a videogame than a lot of movies. And some of the concept designs is often more researched than movies. Some of the stories (like Final Fantasy titles) are just as beloved as "classic movies" we discuss here. When I was playing Dark Souls I felt I was part of an elaborate interactive fantasy world that movies cannot even come close to matching

And like movies, some are cheap trash and some are masterpieces, so you can't generalized.

Obviously Stefancos started this as trolling thread since he's never played a videogame and seems to consider them a waste of time

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If Journey isn't art, I don't know what is.

I know its visual style was strong artistically, but would you say the gameplay aesthetic itself was extraordinary and even profound?

The artistry of Journey is how it makes me feel after an hour and a half session. It's indescribable. And it floors me every time. That combination of arresting visuals, heartfelt music and just experiencing the journey with somebody you don't even know but connect with is the very definition of art for me.

I think some videogames are a form of artwork just as much as movies. I can get more involved emotionally in the story of a videogame than a lot of movies. And some of the concept designs is sometimes more researched than movies. Some of the stories (like Final Fantasy titles) are just as beloved as "classic movies" we discuss here.

And like, movies, some are cheap trash and some are masterpieces, so you can't generalized.

The design of Bioshock Infinite, on every level is a work of art.

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