The Battle of Middle-Earth: Your favourite Hobbit/LOTR score?

[Jay 37,266]

You haven't listened to the OST yet?

[gkgyver 1,645]

DOS is the darkest part of the story, so it's missing "warmth" is really fine.

I haven't seen BOFA yet but I was hoping that once the battle was over, it would have a really nice, and really warm ending. The OST doesn't give me confidence it will, but we haven't hear Shore's real (EE) ending cues yet.

I wonder whether the OST has different music because the music at the end of the film was superb. Very warm indeed.

You'll be surprised what was not in the film ...

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

Fellowship and AUJ, AINEC!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,266]

That theme was already used in DOS too

[Incanus 5,713]

That theme was already used in DOS too

I know what specific idea you are refering to and I am sure you mean that the whole Smaug's theme collection travels to Thorin when he assumes the mastery of the hoard, which has the curse of dragon-sickness. Shore already used Smaug's music subliminally for Thorin (not just the motoric little figure) in DoS. But it was very savvy of you to point it out already then Jay. Of course Thorin had this need and greed prior to his arrival to the mountain but it just gets overpoweringly hypnotic in this last film, especially with the Arkenstone madness added to it. But it is a very good idea and harkens back to Tolkien's novel but also to the rest of his legendarium concerning treasure and dragon-treasure specifically. He has in the Adventures of Bombadil, a collection of poems, a piece called The Hoard that specifically deals with this dragon-sickness from treasure.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Just listened to Battle of the Five armies. It has some nice moments but it's like Howard Shore says "I'm glad there's no more movies because I'm running out of ideas for this music"

So it's just like JW with ROTS?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

LOTR wise I will have to go with FOTR. The one that started everything. Though its a very close contest.

I will need to listen to TBOTFA before deciding on the other trilogy.

[Jay 37,266]

Waiting to receive it as a Christmas present again?

[Wojo 2,453]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, like last year and the year before that. Tradition. LeBlac!

[Faleel 5,326]

Just listened to Battle of the Five armies. It has some nice moments but it's like Howard Shore says "I'm glad there's no more movies because I'm running out of ideas for this music"

So it's just like JW with ROTS?

Yes.

But not the way you mean it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

In what way do I mean it?

[crocodile 7,977]

Yes, like last year and the year before that. Tradition. LeBlac!

So you've not heard it yet?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I have.

Seen the film twice, remember.

[crocodile 7,977]

A lot of music is inaudible in the film. Woukdn't make as much of an impression on me as it should, to be honest. The album experience is much better.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Geez, you think!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

I haven't been in the other thread for a few days (will try and catch up tomorrow) but when last I looked BB was hating the score. It's funny because people were predicting he'd hate it and then it would rapidly grow on him

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I haven't been in the other thread for a few days (will try and catch up tomorrow) but when last I looked BB was hating the score. It's funny because people were predicting he'd hate it and then it would rapidly grow on him

BB is predictable that way

And I better see that longer review come up soon Alvar!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

I haven't been in the other thread for a few days (will try and catch up tomorrow) but when last I looked BB was hating the score.

I never said I hated it! I said that I had mixed feelings after my first listen. But right from my second listen onwards, I liked more and more stuff in it.

It's just the two views I've seen you express have been so different. It's funny. Glad you're enjoying the score more now though! I liked it initially anyway but I'm listening to it every day (and I've seen the film twice) so it's really starting to come together for me now.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Maybe. I only get on here for a little bit on weeknights so I may even be mixing you up with other people!

Anyway, voted DoS in this poll but I can see that changing over time with TBotFA taking its place. Fire and Water and Sons of Durin are just

[Jay 37,266]

16. To The Death: That powerful rendition of the Reclamation Of Nature theme at 02:36, segueing into the Eagles music, and then the haunting choral material after that.

Careful! That's a Standard Edition time, all the rest of us know are Special Edition times! The part you're talking about happens at 4:22 in the real track

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AjiRtgP4_o4TdHdFUExoRi1GMjlxRjl6V0hXY2JKU1E&output=html

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And I better see that longer review come up soon Alvar!

One day, maybe...

First Contact?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't let The Hobbit distract you from your calling! From who you truly are!

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

Any place I could read a good track by track analysis of these scores?

Well there is the Doug Adams's book for Lord of the Rings but that is available only in print. The Hobbit music will probably receive a similar one in the near future.

There are what were called The Annotated Scores (additional PDF liner notes) that came out to complement the Lord of the Rings Complete Recordings in essence track-by-track analysis but the Doug Adams's book offers more complete descriptions than these. Here are the links in BloodBoals post from a few days ago:

I never got those PDFs. Disappointed to know there's info in there that I've missed!

There you go:

The Fellowship Of The Ring - The Annotated Score

The Two Towers - The Annotated Score

The Return Of The King - The Annotated Score

Thank you, albeit those are not particularly detailed. But it does name my favorite theme of the whole saga, that I which had been used more often: The Journey There theme

The Journey There might be my all-time favorite theme from any film ever.

As for a detailed track-by-track analysis, there's http://www.melson.nl/lotr/'s Score Analysis Project, although it doesn't have ROTK up yet and is literally just a listing of when each theme appears.

Seriously, how can this not be everyone's favourite Hobbit score?!

Still doesn't trump all the Mirkwood and Smaug material and "Beyond the Forest" for me. Unlike the film for which it was written, BOFA has a lot of nice moments (I disagree about "Guardians of the Three" - it might be my second-favorite after "Fire and Water"), but to me DOS still has the most LOTR-ish feel to the whole project.

As for LOTR, I agree with Uni about seeing the "trilogy" as one cohesive whole; for the sake of the poll I picked TTT (weirdly enough even though it doesn't contain my favorite theme in all of the Middle-Earth scores) because it's the one I most often listen to in its complete form (I've edited down single-disc versions of FOTR and ROTK, but still prefer to listen to TTT in CR form), not because I think it's superior to the others - I really couldn't pick a favorite of the three.

As for ranking them,

LOTR:

1. The Fellowship of the Ring=The Two Towers=The Return of the King

The Hobbit:

1. The Desolation of Smaug

2. The Battle of the Five Armies

3. An Unexpected Journey

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm considering the Hobbit more as "one whole" than LotR. And before you all scream in agony and horror, what I'm saying is that, on album, the three Hobbits have a clearer and more streamlined feeling than LotR, especially the themes. As Shore himself said, he was working his way through LotR piece by piece, hoping to create a whole in the process.

In the Hobbit, I feel like Shore had a clearer vision from the very start. Maybe it has also to do with the fact that the original film one was split in two, and the themes written for it could be explored more in 1 1/2 scores.

LotR works as three outstanding standalone scores that make a great whole. The Hobbit works as three great standalone scores, but an even greater whole.

Every time the horns kick in with Bilbo's adventure theme in The Return Journey, I'm losing it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

I'm considering the Hobbit more as "one whole" than LotR. And before you all scream in agony and horror, what I'm saying is that, on album, the three Hobbits have a clearer and more streamlined feeling than LotR, especially the themes. As Shore himself said, he was working his way through LotR piece by piece, hoping to create a whole in the process.

In the Hobbit, I feel like Shore had a clearer vision from the very start. Maybe it has also to do with the fact that the original film one was split in two, and the themes written for it could be explored more in 1 1/2 scores.

LotR works as three outstanding standalone scores that make a great whole. The Hobbit works as three great standalone scores, but an even greater whole.

Every time the horns kick in with Bilbo's adventure theme in The Return Journey, I'm losing it.

Really? A lot of the most prominent themes in AUJ never show up again* (both the Shore and Plan 9 Company Theme, Radagast, the Took theme, the new Gandalf theme), whereas pretty much everything that appears in FOTR returns in some form throughout the LOTR trilogy. Likewise, the general "sound" of the LOTR scores - the heavy reverb, similar-sounding choir, almost washed-out percussion - is cohesive: if you had never seen the movie, you could listen to tracks from each CR and not know which one they came from, while AUJ sounds completely different from the other two Hobbit scores.

*I've only listened through BOFA once so far, and I was somewhat distracted while doing so, some I'm not sure if they appear in some form again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

AUJ feels different then the other two. Which feel like DoS and DoS part 2

[KK 3,307]

Sort of, yeah. It's like Shore laid the foundation for a slightly different musical journey in AUJ. And then through the massive production changes for the second film, laid a primarily new foundation in DoS which BotFA expanded on.

As a result, these scores do not share the wholesomeness or consistency of LOTR. LOTR felt like one big symphonic work (though each of the 3 has unique characteristics of their own). The Hobbit scores feel like 3 different works with different characters that share the same musical vocabulary. A different approach, but still an effective one.

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

And the lack of a strong beginning and ending for DOS still bothers me

I'll grant you that "The Quest for Erebor" is really weak, but "My Armour Is Iron" is my second-favorite ending track of the whole saga, only trumped by "The Breaking of the Fellowship."

AUJ feels different then the other two. Which feel like DoS and DoS part 2

Pretty much.

Sort of, yeah. It's like Shore laid the foundation for a slightly different musical journey in AUJ. And then through the massive production changes for the second film, laid a primarily new foundation which BotFA expanded on.

As a result, these scores do not share the wholesomeness or consistency of LOTR. LOTR felt like one big symphonic work (though each of the 3 has unique characteristics of their own). The Hobbit scores feel like 3 different works with different characters that share the same musical vocabulary. A different approach, but still an effective one.

That's a good way to put it. Going from DOS to BOFA isn't a difficult jump, but at least for me the differences between AUJ and DOS are really jarring.

[KK 3,307]

If PJ hadn't rejected so many themes, and if Shore was still working with the LPO, I'm sure the other two scores would have turned out quite different.

But because the process changed so much, a lot of what Shore originally had drafted for the films (thematically that is) got discarded, and he essentially approached it with a new set of ideas.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

The major differences between the LPO and NZSO in terms of performance, would be heard in the more dynamic parts (like the action material). The seasoned players and instruments make a significant difference (ex. the LPO's handling of the aleatoric material).

And then there's the mix, which is a whole other issue.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Those are two different pieces though aren't they?

[KK 3,307]

Those are two different pieces though aren't they?

Yup. But they share a similar sound, which isn't so much the case with the Hobbit scores (but that's a mix/recording issue).

We might have had a statement or two of Bilbo's theme in DOS, but I doubt it would have been that different. Although the performances would sound different under the LPO and Shore.

It's not just a matter of sound. I think we would have heard different themes, and AUJ would have been less isolated from the other two scores. I'm not sure if it would have been better, but just different.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

There is a definite and glaring lack of aleatoric passages in BOTFA. In fact, I remember none at all.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I've not heard the score much yet, but I thought I noticed at least one instance, and thinking that it sounded more familiar than the DOS's moments.

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

There is a definite and glaring lack of aleatoric passages in BOTFA. In fact, I remember none at all.

"Bred for War" and "The Clouds Burst" have some, if my memory serves.