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The Composer's Thread


Justin

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2 hours ago, KK. said:

Recently wrapped up scoring a short film. Thought I'd post this "suite" (read: butchered collection of excerpts) here. Thematically, it's not the most daring thing you're going to hear (it's pretty lightweight), but I enjoyed writing something lighter in tone. The "meatier" stuff is in the middle-ish. And I got to play around a bit with colours and interconnectivity (which might not be well-represented here), so it was fun. As always, would love to hear thoughts!

 

 

 

Really good and better than 90% of the stuff that comes out with a million plus music budget.  Congrats!

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19 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Kalaisan Korzeniowski is back!

 

Love it. Where can I buy the album?

 

Thanks BB! You'll have to come up to Kanadia and steal my laptop for the full thing I'm afraid. But when I do have my first commercial album, I expect you to be the first in line to buy it!!

18 hours ago, Michael said:

Lovely, reminds me a bit of Michael Kamen, in the best possible sense.

 

Thanks Michael!! The Kamen comparison means a lot!

17 hours ago, karelm said:

 

Really good and better than 90% of the stuff that comes out with a million plus music budget.  Congrats!

 

Wow, thanks Karelm!! I really appreciate that!

19 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

The production quality of your stuff is consistently and exceptionally above average.  I may have asked you before but I'd love to again hear you walk through your methods.

 

Thanks Grey :)

 

To answer your question, I think it really boils down to what you often talk about, and that's manipulating your resources as much as possible. My process/perspective has changed a lot since I first started toying with the idea of scoring things. Before, I used to tell myself "make the mockup as close to what's on paper as possible", "the notes matter more than the sound", "the bad/cheap sound is the synths' fault, not yours - can't be helped!". And I got away with that for some time. But one of the people I work with (namely, my brother, who's a filmmaker), kept picking on me about that. For him, quality of sound, realism, authenticity is what mattered most while maintaining musicality too. He was never happy with my older sample stuff.

 

So I had to shift gears, because I wasn't very good at the whole production side of it. And honestly, that's the really tough part of the whole gig. Sitting in front of a piano and writing is one thing, but figuring out the sounds you just wrote for, and how to make the sound impressive is such an enormous challenge. Its a job in itself, and to do both the writing and the production in a limited timeframe...it gave me a newfound respect for guys like Zimmer and Newman. I think Alain Mayrand made this great post on Facebook about how difficult it is to really wrangle that, to think in a compositional mind-frame and having to have to invent a whole sonic palette in the process.

 

Anyways, I learned (and am still learning) how to adjust and "orchestrate" differently for MIDI to achieve the best sound I could then. I think I mentioned this before. But I usually start the piano, sketch some ideas. And then sketch some whole cues with the orchestra in mind. And them I'm at the computer, and inputting that into Reaper (yes, still using Reaper) and my array of samples (some decent, some not so much, lots of Cinesample stuff) and mocking that up to the best of my ability. I then spend a lot of time playing with sounds. Some of my libraries have some neat niche things (whether it be percussion/synths/wine glasses/whatnot), and I spend a lot of time playing with filters, dials, a bunch of jargon I still don't really understand, to achieve some augmentable colours that would fit the project I had in mind. I liken it a lot to how Newman works with his "improv-ensemble" pre- and post-recording sessions. Once I've achieved a sound I'm somewhat satisfied with, I save those as "presets" and see how I can integrate those colours into the remainder of the project/score. And then once all that's done, its time to hit the reset button.

 

Which is why when I start something new, I enjoy the actual writing part, but dread going to the computer, because its so laborious, and I'm slow at it too! But once I'm in it, I'm in that office for the whole day(s). I now have a couple of shortcuts with certain instruments and ensembles, but still toying around a lot. And its all a learning curve. You should hear some of my first attempts at DAW...

 

Well I'm not sure if ANY of that is useful. You guys are the real experts really, but I'd be curious in discussing this further and hearing your process as well!

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18 hours ago, KK. said:

Thanks BB! You'll have to come up to Kanadia and steal my laptop for the full thing I'm afraid. But when I do have my first commercial album, I expect you to be the first in line to buy it!!

 

I will be, but only if you keep up the good work!

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I realize it might not be the best idea posting this right after KK's masterful display, but I've been working on this little piece for the last couple of weeks and I'm quite happy with how it's turning out. Of course it's still in sketch form, as it's lacking structure and a proper ending, but it's one of my first experiments of something written by hand -then transcribed into the computer- so I was wondering if any of the real composers around here would be kind enough to listen to it and give me any input or advice.

 

As always, thanks in advance.

Little_Dances_of_Invocation.wav

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  • 3 weeks later...

Lovely cadence at the end. Talented guy! Clearly takes after his mentor!

 

What did he use for his strings? Loving the sound of the bass.

 

 

On 2/25/2016 at 6:04 PM, Michael said:

I realize it might not be the best idea posting this right after KK's masterful display, but I've been working on this little piece for the last couple of weeks and I'm quite happy with how it's turning out. Of course it's still in sketch form, as it's lacking structure and a proper ending, but it's one of my first experiments of something written by hand -then transcribed into the computer- so I was wondering if any of the real composers around here would be kind enough to listen to it and give me any input or advice.

 

As always, thanks in advance.

Little_Dances_of_Invocation.wav

 

Interesting! I think there was a glitch or two in the rendering near the beginning and the ending (if intentional, that kind of tonguing is generally not practical for reed instruments). Liking the structure of the whole thing! Would be cool if you managed to get an ensemble to perform it live.

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4 hours ago, KK. said:

Talented guy!  Clearly takes after his mentor!

 

I've offered no such proof of that!  :lol:

 

4 hours ago, KK. said:

What did he use for his strings? Loving the sound of the bass.

 

I believe it's a couple different section/solo libraries blended together on top of each other.

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Lool I think you've posted on here twice or so, And I was referring to his mastery of harmonic language which is what I'd assume your aesthetics might learn toward if you were writing something in that vein. 

 

Speaking of which, you need to post more of your stuff here!

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By the way... GPO 5 is now out.  It seems like it includes at least some of the fantastic and now legendary/"unobtainable" Garritan Orchestral Strings, which should make it worth it even to those of us with stupidly expensive libraries already.  And I think in general they've improved some of the really dreadful shortcomings of their earlier offerings too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Had to score a short doc over the weekend. Quick turn-around time, but managed to whip something up. Nothing significant, but posting it here anyway for shameless promotion! 

 

On 3/19/2016 at 8:54 PM, loert said:

Trying to get back into composing after a lazy spell...a random and very short scherzo I wrote today for piano:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18637418/scherzo.mp3

 

Neat! I like it!

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Hi Alex, welcome to the forum.

 

I had a listen, but I'm afraid I don't hear anything of musical worth.

 

Where are your harmonies? Where are your memorable themes? All I just hear is noise.

 

Please consider a change in career.

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7 minutes ago, loert said:

Hi Alex, welcome to the forum.

 

I had a listen, but I'm afraid I don't hear anything of musical worth.

 

Where are your harmonies? Where are your memorable themes? All I just hear is noise.

 

Please consider a change in career.

 

Well, honestly, I thought your Scherzo was pretty okay (notwithstanding its short length). Where are your harmonies, though? All I'm hearing is quasi-atonal stuff not even worthy of being considered music. No thematic material at all - which I do have! Oh, and I wouldn't even make you consider a change in career. You don't seem to have one!

 

I think my piece is pretty harmonic. It's got lots of planing major sevenths, for instance.

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48 minutes ago, Alex North said:

 

 

Well, honestly, I thought your Scherzo was pretty okay (notwithstanding its short length). Where are your harmonies, though? All I'm hearing is quasi-atonal stuff not even worthy of being considered music. No thematic material at all - which I do have! Oh, and I wouldn't even make you consider a change in career. You don't seem to have one!

 

I think my piece is pretty harmonic. It's got lots of planing major sevenths, for instance.

 

Oh, so you think my Scherzo, which I spent many arduous minutes working on, is not "even worthy of being considered music"? How about you learn to compose first before criticising my hard work, pal! You don't seem capable of making one instrument play the same line for more than half a second! Did you, by any chance, trip over and fall face-first onto a keyboard, looped the resulting sound, and called the result a piece of music? Or, since you seem like the pen and paper kind of guy, did you knock over a bottle of ink onto score paper, then forced an orchestra to play the result at gunpoint, and then have the audacity to ask the fine members of this forum on what we think

 

Seriously, find something better to do with your spare time. Maybe you'll fare better in the world of pop music, and write a schmaltzy love song which will get you a lot of hits among the musically-deficient public. But, for the love of God, do not make me listen to any more of your third-rate, schizophrenic crap

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22 minutes ago, loert said:

Oh, so you think my Scherzo, which I spent many arduous minutes working on, is not "even worthy of being considered music"? How about you learn to compose first before criticising my hard work, pal! You don't seem capable of making one instrument play the same line for more than half a second! Did you, by any chance, trip over and fall face-first onto a keyboard, looped the resulting sound, and called the result a piece of music? Or, since you seem the pen and paper kind of guy, did you knock over a bottle of ink onto score paper, then forced an orchestra to play the result at gunpoint, and then have the audacity to ask the public's opinion on what we think

 

Seriously, find something better to do with your spare time. Maybe you'll fare better in the world of pop music, and write a schmaltzy love song which will get you a lot of hits. But, for the love of God, do not make me listen to any more of your third-rate, schizophrenic crap

 

I already wrote a pop song. Never heard of Unchained Melody?

 

Also, I have learned to compose. In fact, I was bestowed the honor of a scholarship to go and study with Anton Weprik and Victor Biely at the Conservatory of Moscow.

 

I may have exaggerated (which isn't all too unthinkable considering the aggression prominent in your initial reply!), but I remain convinced your piece is a bit of a mess. Try to write something that actually tries to tell the listener a story, or perhaps just whispers a feeling, a general sentiment in the listener's ear. Begin your piece by thinking of a sentiment! I've listened to some of your other stuff, though, and considering your lack of further musical education, I think you're a highly talented composer. You're just ... trying to write using vocabulary you don't know yet. Don't forget the rules of classical harmony. They may seem rigid, but they're pretty worthwhile. Try to form your own idea of harmony using those rules, form your own vocabulary, expand it.

 

My typical cue is a fairly complex canvas (if I may say so myself) consisting of various layers of 'musical paint'. What you hear (and lovingly describe as a knocked-over bottle of ink on score paper), is the refined variation of prominence of said layers, which is far from arbitrary. Some people, however, have trouble at first to distill what I'm trying to say, musically, and loose themselves in the complexity of my writing, being overwhelmed by all its little details, which I do understand.

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I'm sorry, Alex, I don't know what got into me. You seem like a decent, likeable chap, and I apologize for being so short-sighted and misjudging your submitted piece. In fact, now that I listen more to it, I am beginning to appreciate its small details, and your mastery in creating a sense of rhythmic balance across the orchestra.  In fact, this may be, dare I say it, one of the best action cues written in the 20th century. I've come to the conclusion that people should not base their judgement of a piece of music on whether or not it has a simple, hummable tune, or whether it is made up of basic, easily-analyzable chords and simple rhythms. Instead, they should let the music speak for itself, and not be afraid of listening to something that they might find difficult to digest at first.

 

I shall take heed of your suggestion on my writing style, especially as you are clearly more qualified in composition than I am. However, I do have a question I simply must ask, and it is an important one. Are you a fan of John Williams? Because if you are, then you can stay. But if not, then you can feck right off. :wave:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, loert said:

I shall take heed of your suggestion on my writing style, especially as you are clearly more qualified in composition than I am. However, I do have a question I simply must ask, and it is an important one. Are you a fan of John Williams? Because if you are, then you can stay. But if not, then you can feck right off. :wave:

 

Johnny baby? Sure do! Invited him over to my house earlier this week. Had some beers and discussed Martinu's First Symphony. Great guy! Doesn't get a lot of promising gigs, though, but there sure as hell is a great composer in there, somewhere. He showed me the manuscript for his very own First Symphony - fascinating!

 

Oh, and guess what. Johnny, in his charming, humble way, expressed his love for my score for A Streetcar Named Desire. I don't need to tell you how delighted I was!

 

He's more of a fan of me, though. But I adore his jazzy sound!

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On 28-3-2016 at 10:57 PM, KK. said:

Had to score a short doc over the weekend. Quick turn-around time, but managed to whip something up. Nothing significant, but posting it here anyway for shameless promotion! 

 

 

I'm hearing Thomas Newman's influence very prominently here, KK! Very Newman-esque string writing. :)

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Yes! I'm not ashamed to admit there's a lot of Newman in there. His harmonic language has been bleeding into mine lately, but that modality seemed especially appropriate in this case.

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Who was looking for a good choir library recently, and was it even in this thread?  Regardless, I said that I didn't have any recommendations, but apparently I do, without having realized it.  I always thought that Jeremy Soule recorded real voices or at least had his own private library for his immensely convincing choral stuff... but it's just 8dio Requiem, I guess?  I happened to listen to one of their demos, and there it is.  The full choral stuff and solos are all that, all except the actual men's choir used in the main theme and Sovngarde.  Extremely impressive!  Had me fooled for years.

 

 

 

 

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Troels Folmann, the producer behind Requiem Pro, has done some astonishing work with that sample library in his "Tomb Raider" scores, which had me believing for the longest time that they were live recorded choirs. In fact, everything in the Tomb Raider: Legend, Anniversary and Underworld was sampled.

 

 

 

 

Also, a few years back I tried to recreate the Skyrim theme using Requiem Light, but I had quite a few problems recreating the choir sound effectively with that. In the end I ended up replacing much of the main melody with orchestral instruments, with the choir coming in in only in a few places (and listening back to it now I probably mixed it too high). The choir shouts, however, come from the Epic Toms library from the same company, and the solo female voice is the "Wales" patch from EWQL Voices of Passion, which IMO is the best solo female vocal patch in terms of flexibility. Most of the orchestral instruments come from EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold, and the drums of course are just from Epic Toms, although I also looped the first two bars from the original audio to be used as a "backing track" throughout, because I couldn't figure out how to recreate that deep war drum sound using the sample libraries at my disposal.

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
On 03/06/2016 at 11:21 PM, BuzzLightyear said:

Hey there, I'd scored an opening track for a prehistoric adventure. Something like Jurassic Park I saw in my mind :D
I want to show it to you!

I liked it! :D You can for sure write for the orchestra! I especially loved the horn "blowout" towards the end. .

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been meaning to watch this for years, but it's quite long so I'm only just now getting to it after someone reminded me.  I'd recommend it to anyone reading this thread.  Mike's a smart, no-BS guy.  And eminently likable.  You'll get some good insights, and laughs.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok, this could be really silly to share but everytime I'm on the piano I end up playing a sort of Danny Elfman oompah-doompah kinda riff straight outta Beetlejuice so I thought it might be fun to try to write down and make it work with my limited but charming synths. What I ended most excited and happy with was the ending (so far) of the little piece, which for some reason ended up becoming some sort of jazzy riff on the piano and then a small electro dance of sorts -I think. Was not planning to get the piece in that direction at all, so it keeps surprising me for some reason.

 

Anyway, the fragment itself is quite short, and again, hopefully not too un-serious to be shared around here. Just for fun:

 

http://picosong.com/tydX/

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

@Jilal, you appear to have taken on Williams's habit of constantly renaming his works. ;)

 

Sneaking Around

Scherzo for Will

Scherzo

Scherzo for Pirates

 

As a side note, woah I'm only 6 posts away from 1,000! That's when I get to customize the words under my username, right? I'll probably reach it later today, or perhaps tomorrow. Hmmm, what should I pick...

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3 minutes ago, Will said:

@Jilal, you appear to have taken on Williams's habit of constantly renaming his works. ;)

 

Sneaking Around

Scherzo for Will

Scherzo

Scherzo for Pirates

 

As a side note, woah I'm only 6 posts away from 1,000! That's when I get to customize the words under my username, right? I'll probably reach it later today, or perhaps tomorrow. Hmmm, what should I pick...

 

I figured the new name was a little more evocative. ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, The Psycho Pianist said:

I recently had this action cue recorded, which I feel is inadvertently infused with some Williamsisms. Enjoy, and any feedback is highly welcome! ;)

 

 

Wow, nice job!  Sounds great and nicely mixed and mastered.  Congratulations!

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17 hours ago, The Psycho Pianist said:

I recently had this action cue recorded, which I feel is inadvertently infused with some Williamsisms. Enjoy, and any feedback is highly welcome! ;)

 

 

 

Awesome. 0:48 - 0:51 is the best bit. :D

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On 10/11/2016 at 11:58 AM, karelm said:

Uploading an excerpt of a space theater piece for large orchestra that I wrote last year.  Lots of noise!

 

keer.mp3

 

Great stuff! Really enjoyed the Wrath of Khan-esque second half.

20 hours ago, The Psycho Pianist said:

I recently had this action cue recorded, which I feel is inadvertently infused with some Williamsisms. Enjoy, and any feedback is highly welcome! ;)

 

 

 

Nicely done!

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33 minutes ago, KK said:

 

Great stuff! Really enjoyed the Wrath of Khan-esque second half.

 

Nicely done!

 

Cheers.  There are a few Hornerisms and Williamsisms in this piece.  I was writing it when Horner died so its definitely a tip of the hat.

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1 minute ago, karelm said:

Cheers.  There are a few Hornerisms and Williamsisms in this piece.  I was writing it when Horner died so its definitely a tip of the hat.

 

Do you have some of the sketches scanned?

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Just wondering - does anyone know if the free Noteflight program can export to MIDI? 

 

No, I can't really read music and I would just be messing around, but would it be possible to copy some JW bars, export to MIDI, and change the instrument that plays the bars in GarageBand?

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