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The Desolation of Smaug SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread


Jay

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As it was with AUJ, the album is a more satisfying experience. Also because Jackson deemed it fitting to, again, omit Shore's closing music before the end credits, meaning the last 30 seconds of "My Armour Is Iron".

Is this a time estimate from memory, or accurate to the track? because that would be right in the middle of the final minute-long choral section (and a real pity, going by the music - in AUJ I could understand the reasoning behind not having that big buildup at the end, as enjoyable as it is on CD)

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The first truly negative review? http://nypost.com/2013/12/11/tolkiens-dragon-is-draggin-in-new-hobbit/

1.5/4 stars. - 38/100 on Metascore.

"There are probably enough moments to satisfy hard-core fans, but for the rest of us, this amounts to a “Star Wars: Episode II — The Revenge of the Sith’’ for the 21st century, a space-holding, empty-headed epic filled with characters and places (digital and otherwise) that are hard to keep straight, much less care about."

Episode II - Revenge of the Sith?! LOL!

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Getting the title wrong actually bolsters his point, as only fans of the series know what Episode II was actually called. Fans were the only people who cared enough to find out, let alone remember.

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Getting the title wrong actually bolsters his point, as only fans of the series know what Episode II was actually called. Fans were the only people who cared enough to find out, let alone remember.

Rubbish, most people who know anything about films can tell you it's Episode II Attack of the Clones regardless of what they feel about the films.

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As it was with AUJ, the album is a more satisfying experience. Also because Jackson deemed it fitting to, again, omit Shore's closing music before the end credits, meaning the last 30 seconds of "My Armour Is Iron".

Is this a time estimate from memory, or accurate to the track? because that would be right in the middle of the final minute-long choral section (and a real pity, going by the music - in AUJ I could understand the reasoning behind not having that big buildup at the end, as enjoyable as it is on CD)

No, it's an estimate. They omitted the ending when the choir with the brass gathers a final statement of Smaug's theme. You see him flying towards Esgaroth without music, just like Bilbo saying "what have we done?"

The thought of long parts without music worries me. I found some parts of An Unexpected Journey to be jarringly unscored. Perhaps the most glaring example is the aerial shot with the sound of Wargs howling just before Radagast's attempt at a diversion begins; I always feel that some urgent and atmospheric music is need there to counteract the (already pretty severe) mundanity of the scene. The music begins a few seconds later, but, to my mind, the damage is already done. And that's just a short part without music.

It's probably not the length of the silence, but rather the stop-and-go editing. It's irritating, because the music can't gather any momentum, and it screws up the pace of the sequence because it can't seem to decide whether it gains speed or unwinds. The omission of Thorin's theme from the River chase was just one of some very odd choices.

Two questions regarding the score: 1) Are all the variations of 'The Line of Durin' theme in? I think one of you said the 'humming' version as heard in 'Girion, Lord of Dale' played during the part with the dead Dwarves, while another has said that the version from 'The Hunters' played there. 2) Gkgyver - do you think the missing music in some parts (I'm thinking Beorn and Mirkwood) might be due to a lot of material being cut in those sections?

1. Yes, all variations are in the film, and play where they belong. The version in The Hunters does play over the dead dwarves. Girion, Lord of Dale plays where it belongs, but has the humming either omitted or toned down.

2. I think the extended House Of Beorn definitely has score for the extended film. But there is also music missing that was on the regular edition. The spiders track is dialed out, the footage is there. Some Dol Guldur was also removed, particulary from "A Necromancer". I think a lot of it plays over Azog reporting to Sauron. The Minas Morgul music in A Spell Of Concealment was shortened too.

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Somewhat related, there was a guy at the premiere in front of me the other night. Left as soon as the film started to get drinks and popcorn then spent then next 1:45 to 2 hours on his phone. He was too far to my left to say anything to him but when you've got a mobile phone glare in your vicinity it's really distracting. Why bother?

I love watching movies in the cinema, it adds to the experience, but people are idiots.

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The DOS soundtrack is NOT in chronological order. The beginning is, but in between "Bard, A Man Of Lake-town" and "My Armor Is Iron", they shuffled the order of music around in a bunch of places for a better listening experience.

Is there a chronological sequencing order listed somewhere?

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They should install cell-phone jammers in theaters.

Or, like in some schools, just collect the damn things at the entrance. People are not fit to decide by themselves what's unbecoming in public.

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Ok just got back home.

Ruminations.

The film starts basically with PJ doing a parody on his own cameo in FOTR (man with carrot). and goes into The Quest Of Erebor. Nice to see Bree and The prancing Pony again. From there it plunges us straight into the action with a hell of a lot more pace then the previous film.

If AUJ was too slow, DoS to some extent suffers from the opposite, in it's first half at least. The film races through the Beorn scene, Mirkwood and the scenes with the Elves. It's brisk pace is most welcome, but i was amazed how fast we got too the barrels scene.

The departure of Gandalf takes place very suddenly, and with the exception of some muttering by Bilbo, no one seems to object or care much. There is actually not a lot of character interaction in the first part of the film. Thorin, after becoming all "bromance" with Bilbo goes back to his sullen self.

Loooooot of emphasis on the One Ring. But there's a rather good scene where Bilbo reclaims it in Mirkwood and start to suspect it has some hold on him. Freeman is outstanding in that scene. Bringing an intensity I never saw with Eliah Wood.

Martin Freeman is actually once again great as Bilbo, but like the previous film, his character tends to disappear during a lot of the scenes about the Dwarves. He finally comes onto his own during his confrontation with Smaug. Freemans'gift as a comic actor is very evident in a film that actually doesn't have a whole lot of humor.

Azog scurries of to Dol Guldur in the beginning of the film and is replaced by Bolg. It hardly makes any difference. They are in essence the same character.

I liked Tauriel, more then i actually expected. The "romance" between her and Killi was just about credible, and not cringe inducing (though getting there)

Orlando bloom is in good shape in this film, but plainly looks about 10 years older. PL could not resist trowing a reverence to Gimli in there....sigh.

Tranduil is a different sort of Elf king, more earthy, more limited in his vision, more driven by desire. Interesting character.

The long barrels out of bound chase/fight is exhilarating and hilarious. Bombur causing damage to many Orcs got a lot of laughs, so did the few "leggy" moments there.

After this part the tempo of the film slows down a bit. A lot of work went into bringing more detail to Laketown then was in the book. The circumstances, the politics. Stephen Fry is good as the Master.

The Dwarrow (and Bilbo) finally arrive at the Lonely Mountain, the scenes in front of the door are quite strong. Even if one knows that they will open the door. The return to Erebor is treated with a lot of importance.

Now we come to the Smaug stuff. The dragon looks GREAT! distinctive, menacing, gigantic. Brilliantly conceived and executed. The voice is good too, You can hear Cumberbactch in there, despite the heavy processing.

The start of the scene is fairly close to the book, with the exception that Bilbo keeps trying to get The Arkenstone.

Everything after that is invented through. The attack on Laketown by Bolg and his men, Legolas and Tauriel, Dwarves being left behind, and....dwarves facing Smaug!

Tolkien purist will cry foul at the very lenthy actiuon scene were the Dwarves try and defeat Smaug inside the Mountain. And honestly taht and the action in Laketown fells a bit too long. But eventually the film arrives at it's conclusion, The first TRUE cliffhanger of these films, and it's a really great one!

"What have we done?" fade to black....ONE YEAR WAIT...NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

One a first viewing It felt like a much stronger film then An Unexpected Journey. There are some pacing issues, the first half being a tad fast, the second a tad slow. But it didnt have the padded feel of last years effort. Even though a lot was added. Particularly Gandalf quest to the tomb of the Nazgul (where he doesn't find much, actually) and his entry into Dol Goldur. Gandalf directly engages Sauron and looses. If anyone was hoping the rebirth of Sauron would be treated with any subtlety....think again. Ian McKellen is once again great though.

And so is Howard Shore. From what I noticed there weren't a lot of big noticeable changes in the score. Having heard the CD several themes I noticed many of the themes and the score worked like gangbusters. A lot of the Smaug material isnt a noticeable because of the sound effects. The dwarves music in the second part of the film works very, very well though. Smaug's flight from Erebor towards Laketown has no music. I'm guessing the end of My Armor Is Iron was written for that but dropped.

Overall a smashing film with far more variety. Not without it's measure of bloat, PJ's indulgences in referencing his previous trilogy. But it felt less like a wholesale redo of FOTR this time round. And it has an ending that left me gasping for more.


Are there any claw your own face off cue tracking groaners in this one then?

Nope. No weird and inappropriate uses of The Breaking Of The Fellowship, The Nazgul Choir, Gondor Reborn etc etc. The only piece that very obviously states anything from LOTR is the "Minas Morgul" part from A Spell Of Concealment. And that the use of that theme is atleast fitting with the scene to some extent.

Oh and Bloodball. The Bunnies Of Doom have a cameo appearance!


BTW, is it me or did they do some CGI on the dwarvish hands in some of the close ups? They have very thick, short fingers.

Of the Dwarrow, Killi got some development, though not as much as I would have figured. Apart from him, Balin and Thorin the Dwarves all all background characters.


Unlike AUJ last year, where I wondered why the heck they would need an extended version, I can totally see an EE adding scenes to the Beorn part, and the scenes amongst the Elves.


Or, like in some schools, just collect the damn things at the entrance. People are not fit to decide by themselves what's unbecoming in public.

I would stab someone in the neck before handing over my iPhone! Does "basic human right" mean nothing to you?

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I just wanna say five things:

-Martin fuckin´ Freeman

-Bombour in a barrel

-Pararararara pararara ra ra ra ra (Tauriel´s theme)

-The EYE of Sauron

-SMAUGGGG

Yes, I like the movie, not love it, but it always happens to me with Peter Jackson´s Middle Earth movies. I always enjoy the first watching but with the next watchings (extended version and the extra material) I fall in love with them. The are so fun and have to many great moments... I´m going to enjoy the waiting to the next one the next year. Can´t wait.

The score is great in the movie, I´m starting to enjoy more the new themes, but the first six tracks are really boring. It starts to grown with The Woodland Realm and the second disc is great. I love the House of Durin theme.

P.S: Does Legolas move any muscle of his face in the entire movie?!? Damn, what a robot. They should cast him in the next Terminator reboot :P.

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I'm just thinking. The SE score release has over 2 hours of music and all the highlights. There doesnt seem to be a lot missing.

Would it even be worth releasing a CR of this? Surely demand will not be as high as with LOTR

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If no complete recordings, then we can always hope that Doug Adams writes a book and releases a CD with missing music with that I guess (has he said anything about that?).

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If no complete recordings, then we can always hope that Doug Adams writes a book and releases a CD with missing music with that I guess (has he said anything about that?).

What about iTunes bonus tracks, like what they did with DA's CASINO ROYALE?

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The DOS soundtrack is NOT in chronological order. The beginning is, but in between "Bard, A Man Of Lake-town" and "My Armor Is Iron", they shuffled the order of music around in a bunch of places for a better listening experience.

Is there a chronological sequencing order listed somewhere?
Well the film just came out so I doubt anyone has made one yet. When I get home tonight I will attempt one, but it will be hard to be 100% accurate until the film is available to reference at home.
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AuJ has a bit more missing music, party because the restructuring and rescoring. But compared to LOTR, there isnt a whole lot missing.

On first sight, DoS is missing even less.

This time around the EE might actually be worth doing the extra recording sessions. So perhaps that might add more music to DoS. :)

Also terrific review Stefan! Now I really look forward to seeing the film tonight!

On my way to watch the film now. Wish me luck!

Good luck!

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Well that was one of the most frustrating cinematic experiences I've had.

I'll post more thoughts when I get home but in short, I'd say I've lost all hope that PJ and crew can right this ship. This trio of films is likely just going to end up a footnote to me, those movies they made that were kinda like the great LOTR trilogy, but not really, not at all.... Not going to be rewatched nearly as often as I'll rewatch LOTR. What a train wreck.

At least we are getting amazing scores out of them :-)

PS Gandalf's Theme as he enters Dol Goldur was fantastic, how could he not consider that a highlight?

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I think the most frustrating cinematic experiences I've ever had were those of watching The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King in the cinema for the first times.With The Hobbit, I'm already resigned to feeling deep dissatisfaction with a lot of aspects of the films.

My main interest today is in 48fps experience - as well as finding out how the score is used in the film.

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The film gets a glowing three and a half star review on rogerebert.com


More ruminations after sleeping on it.

While there is nothing wrong with the opening scene in Bree, there really wasn't any reason I could see for having it there.

When the cue The Hunters is playing, at the 5:00-5:14 mark there is a rendition of Heroics of Legolas. But in the film it actually underscores Tariel fighting an Orc for a while before the scene switches to Legolas. I would have put money of it being used for a "Leggy moment".

The One Ring already has an effect on Bilbo. How is he going to last for 60 years?

I'm guessing the effect will die down once the power of Sauron is lessened somewhat after he is defeated in the third film

I dont remember from the book, but in the film Gandalf remains unaware that Bilbo found a magic ring. He will eithe rbe made aware of this fact in the next film, or somewhere in the next 60 years, because the wizard knows Bilbo possesses a magic ring in FOTR.

Like with the LOTR films, characters posses knowledge they don't have in the book. The dwarves know about Kingsfoil. And Smaug not also seems aware that there is a dark power rising, but he knows Thorin, and the name Oakenshield.

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I'm comparing it to Desolation, Quint. This one has no such artefacts - what's on the album you hear in the film. But there are some portions dropped and that bothers some people.

Karol

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