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Jerry Goldsmith – the greatest action composer of all time?


Hlao-roo

"He was, and remains, the best of the very best." - Dan Hobgood  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. As a body of work, is Jerry Goldmith's action music the greatest in film music history?

    • Yes
      17
    • No
      16


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Blume made a point there's nothing distinctive in Silvestri's writing, that he can't tell him apart from Debney.

Now, I'm not saying that Alan is the best thing that ever happened to film music. But to say he doesn't have a unique sound is a bit... much. His brass and percussion writing are way too distinctive.

Karol

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I guess he talked specifically about this cue from CC that is orchestral frenzy without much going for it than typical Hollywood orchestrator frenzy. At this point i think all Silvestri ever wanted or could say musically seems to be said.

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I can't stand that score (the 13th Warrior, that is).

Why not?

Too bland for my taste. Loud and "epic", but pretty boring, like a lot of Goldsmith's autopilot works in his later years.

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It IS very easy to dismiss these latter scores as rather obvious and simple due to much toned-down orchestration but i feel that's more a young-and-hungry-for-adventure-person's stance that needs to listen to tons of Goldenthal et al.

But I have. :huh:

Just 'cos I'm not a regular in the Last Score You Listened To, that doesn't mean I don't know my PET CEMETERY, MICHAEL COLLINS, TITUS, INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE, FINAL FANTASY, DRUGSTORE COWBOY, DEMOLITION MAN or S.W.A.T., to name a few...

How can one not like this cue?

Karol

It's not too bad, it actually gets compelling at 1:16 (once those snarling French horns are gone, that seem to find their way into THE EDGE, THE MUMMY, STAR TREK: NEMESIS et al). It's just all been done before in earlier Goldsmith scores, and with much more panache and colour (whether orchestral or electronic). There's also none of that Goldsmith dissonance I love.

I always thought of this as POR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCMjhUhTl5M

Thanks for that. Needed to clean my ears after 13TH WARRIOR.

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It IS very easy to dismiss these latter scores as rather obvious and simple due to much toned-down orchestration but i feel that's more a young-and-hungry-for-adventure-person's stance that needs to listen to tons of Goldenthal et al.

But I have. :huh:

Just 'cos I'm not a regular in the Last Score You Listened To, that doesn't mean I don't know my PET CEMETERY, MICHAEL COLLINS, TITUS, INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE, FINAL FANTASY, DRUGSTORE COWBOY, DEMOLITION MAN or S.W.A.T., to name a few...

I am sure you have. What i am saying is that a lot of dismissive comments about these leaner JG works are from folks who have not yet arrived at a level where you can perfectly enjoy FIRST KNIGHT for what it is instead of dissing it for all that it isn't. It's what i call the 'complex' phase where you look for challenging stuff all the time.

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That's a valid point pub. A few years ago, I used to really enjoy First Knight (13th Warrior still rubbed me the wrong way though). Now I find the score a chore to sit through, likely because I'm in that phase where I'm usually craving for the unconventional.

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When i initially received the cd in 1995 i wrote a very lukewarm review on it. As i did on 13TH WARRIOR, as i partly did on GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, all pretty bold later entries in Goldsmith's oeuvre. What did it miss? Any sense of 'achievement' (GHOST easily was the most ambitious due to the fake african choir stuff) or lightfooted inventiveness that even 80's Goldsmith like LIONHEART has in spades. It seemed to be entirely content in serving a measured, polished and easy-to-digest (often ponderous) Hollywood epic score with long shopworn standby's of film music, say Holst's MARS uneasily hovering in the background and a main theme right out of an 'inspiring' US army commercial.

It seemed, in a word, unworthy of Goldsmith's talent (the album, that is). It was only in the mid-2000's when i reviewed my collection with many scores having come in and flown out since then that i really came to realize that for all these perceived faults these scores stayed unique among dozens of pretenders and brought their point across in a devilishly single-minded way that only could have sprung from a mind that had seen it all and now could comfortably serve Hollywood's need for simpler things without losing a beat regarding its impact in the movie or even the album (the cues are constructed pretty much perfect musically, even if they seem simple by design).

So in a nutshell, let the Giacchinos, Powells, Silvestris, or even the JNHs and Elfmans step forward writing a 80-minute score for FIRST KNIGHT in three and a half weeks and let's count the beans afterwards...

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I can't stand that score (the 13th Warrior, that is).

Why not?

Too bland for my taste. Loud and "epic", but pretty boring, like a lot of Goldsmith's autopilot works in his later years.

I think you are a dickhead for saying this!

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When i initially received the cd in 1995 i wrote a very lukewarm review on it. As i did on 13TH WARRIOR, as i partly did on GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, all pretty bold later entries in Goldsmith's oeuvre. What did it miss? Any sense of 'achievement' (GHOST easily was the most ambitious due to the fake african choir stuff) or lightfooted inventiveness that even 80's Goldsmith like LIONHEART has in spades. It seemed to be entirely content in serving a measured, polished and easy-to-digest (often ponderous) Hollywood epic score with long shopworn standby's of film music, say Holst's MARS uneasily hovering in the background and a main theme right out of an 'inspiring' US army commercial.

It seemed, in a word, unworthy of Goldsmith's talent (the album, that is). It was only in the mid-2000's when i reviewed my collection with many scores having come in and flown out since then that i really came to realize that for all these perceived faults these scores stayed unique among dozens of pretenders and brought their point across in a devilishly single-minded way that only could have sprung from a mind that had seen it all and now could comfortably serve Hollywood's need for simpler things without losing a beat regarding its impact in the movie or even the album (the cues are constructed pretty much perfect musically, even if they seem simple by design).

So in a nutshell, let the Giacchinos, Powells, Silvestris, or even the JNHs and Elfmans step forward writing a 80-minute score for FIRST KNIGHT in three and a half weeks and let's count the beans afterwards...

Agreed.

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Maybe I'm a fanboy. But I've grown to the point where I'm realizing John and Jerry's "auto-pilot" scores are alone worth marveling at.

It's like watching Godzilla pick its nose. It's a completely trivial exercise, but it's still FUCKING GODZILLA PICKING ITS NOSE.

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When i initially received the cd in 1995 i wrote a very lukewarm review on it. As i did on 13TH WARRIOR, as i partly did on GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, all pretty bold later entries in Goldsmith's oeuvre. What did it miss? Any sense of 'achievement' (GHOST easily was the most ambitious due to the fake african choir stuff) or lightfooted inventiveness that even 80's Goldsmith like LIONHEART has in spades. It seemed to be entirely content in serving a measured, polished and easy-to-digest (often ponderous) Hollywood epic score with long shopworn standby's of film music, say Holst's MARS uneasily hovering in the background and a main theme right out of an 'inspiring' US army commercial.

It seemed, in a word, unworthy of Goldsmith's talent (the album, that is). It was only in the mid-2000's when i reviewed my collection with many scores having come in and flown out since then that i really came to realize that for all these perceived faults these scores stayed unique among dozens of pretenders and brought their point across in a devilishly single-minded way that only could have sprung from a mind that had seen it all and now could comfortably serve Hollywood's need for simpler things without losing a beat regarding its impact in the movie or even the album (the cues are constructed pretty much perfect musically, even if they seem simple by design).

Nice post.

I think the simple answer is the one I'm dreading: I need to listen to more crap.

Minority Report, WOTW, AOTC, Always, COS, KOCS etc...

MINORITY REPORT is definitely NOT autopilot.

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I think the simple answer is the one I'm dreading: I need to listen to more crap.

And less North.

As for mediocre Williams scores, i'd say to the examples posted above that COS is a score i might even prefer to the first one. It weaves a certain spell with its atmospheric and brooding tracks and all the misterioso this chamber theme carries.

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