Jump to content

.


BloodBoal

Recommended Posts

Spielberg won his last Oscar 14 years ago. That's a long time ago.

Karol

Bwaahahah.

Okay, gotcha. :lol::rolleyes:

Btw, I was talking about Williams for Schindler's List...

But I think you are missing the point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Spielberg won his last Oscar 14 years ago. That's a long time ago.

Karol

Bwaahahah.

Okay, gotcha. :lol::rolleyes:

Btw, I was talking about Williams for Schindler's List...

But I think you are missing the point.

It's quite simple. Williams and Spielberg collaborated 25 times (counting just feature films here) which now spans 38 years. And since that last film was an award triumph 14 years have passed, which is more than 1/3 of their long collaboration (add another four years if you want to count Williams' win). And they made 9 films since then (out of 25). If you ask me, odds are against them.

They're are still getting nominated, but that's out of respect.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spielberg won his last Oscar 14 years ago. That's a long time ago.

Karol

Bwaahahah.

Okay, gotcha. :lol::rolleyes:

Btw, I was talking about Williams for Schindler's List...

But I think you are missing the point.

It's quite simple. Williams and Spielberg collaborated 25 times (counting just feature films here) which now spans 38 years. And since that last film was an award triumph 14 years has passed, which is more than 1/3 of their long collaboration (add another four years if you want to count Williams' win). And they made 9 films since then (out of 25). If you ask me, odds are against them.

They're are still getting nominated, but that's out of respect.

Karol

If many other directors (or even some of them) would be receiving nominations every couple of years and been winning one Oscar after another, you'd have a point! But since they are not, your argument is nothing but an idiotic fallacy, sorry.

It seems to be like you have somewhat lost the perspective...

You expect Spielberg to win an Oscar every 4, 5, or even 7 years? And if he doesn't, he is considered hopeless? :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok then, if my argument is an "idiotic fallacy", as you say, then why aren't they winning? i mean it's not like they're not getting nominated...

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok then, if my argument is an "idiotic fallacy", as you say, then why aren't they winning? i mean it's not like they're not getting nominated...

Karol

Well, I agree that the more Oscar one has, the harder it gets to win another! That's true for Spielberg, that's true for Williams (duh!).

But you said,

And no, Spielberg isn't enough anymore. They nominate his films for the same reason they nominate Williams. The name. Let's be realistic.

And you base that on the fact that Spielberg has last won an Oscar 14 years ago (and Williams 18 years ago)? When Spielberg has already 2 and JW has already 5 Oscars?

Considering that so many many MANY great directors have won no Oscar at all, your statement didn't and still doesn't make sense.

Check this out: You see how many zeros there are? And you see Spielberg's name almost at the top of the list? ;)

http://en.wikipedia....ple_nominations

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And no, Spielberg isn't enough anymore. They nominate his films for the same reason they nominate Williams. The name. Let's be realistic.

And you base that on the fact that Spielberg has last won an Oscar 14 years ago (and Williams 18 years ago)? When Spielberg has already 2 and JW has already 5 Oscars?

Considering that so many many MANY great directors have won no Oscar at all, your statement didn't and still doesn't make sense.

It does. You you said that yourself:

Well, I agree that the more Oscar one has, the harder it gets to win another! That's true for Spielberg, that's true for Williams (duh!).

And that's why Williams probably won't win another Oscar for a score to Spielberg's film.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that's why Williams probably won't win another Oscar for a score to Spielberg's film.

Your thinking isn't logical! If you don't see that, I can't help you! Okay, for the last time:

Williams chances of winning another Oscar is slim, regardless of whether it's for a Spielberg movie or not! But when he sticks to Spielberg his chances will still be higher, considering that almost every Spielberg movie gets at least one nomination, and considering that JW has already won 3 for Spielberg movies.

Or do you think Williams has a better chance when he picks some other random movie by an unknown director that might be considered Oscar worthy at the time of the production... ? Don't make me laugh. If you knew which movie was going to be the Oscar favorite beforehand, every composer in Hollywood would be fighting to score it! Don't you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or do you think Williams has a better chance when he picks some other random movie by an unknown director that might be considered Oscar worthy at the time of the production... ?

It's a gamble, sure. But these "random films" are actually winning.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or do you think Williams has a better chance when he picks some other random movie by an unknown director that might be considered Oscar worthy at the time of the production... ?

It's a gamble, sure. But these "random films" are actually winning.

Karol

Yes, it's a gamble, and it's a one in a million gamble!

But you can see that JW was at least trying in that direction.

Think of Seven Years in Tibet, Angela's Ashes, The Patriot, Far and Away, Rosewood, Presumed Innocent, Witches of Eastwick, even Memoirs of a Geisha etc. You could say that these might be thought of as Oscar favorites at the time of the production. Of course, in the end, it turns out differently, most of the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Memoirs of a Geisha is a good example, I think. I truly think it would win, if not for Munich. And that was an Oscar bait film. Not a good one, not by established director. That was Williams' best chance.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes!

But who could predict that a little movie about gay cowboys with a budget of

$14 million would turn out to be the Oscar favorite, right?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Williams should score more gay cowboys dramas. ;)

My point is, Josh, that nominating Williams and Spielberg is slightly too... obvious. You almost authomatically know that he will get a nod. Besides, Spielberg is not making award films anymore. I'm surprised to see so any nominations for War Horse, I really am.

One more thing: Academy does usually recognize scores that are very prominent in the film. You know, the mix is good and it makes strong impression. And recent Spielberg films don't exactly do that. War Horse sounds rather disappointing in the film. Not that Williams did a bad job or that it was a bad approach. But the mix was flat. It didn't give that punch. Films like The Social Network, Babel and Brokeback Mountain, Atonement make really good use of their scores. Tintin and War Horse are bit too... again... predictable. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the composition.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point is, Josh, that nominating Williams and Spielberg is slightly too... obvious. You almost authomatically know that he will get a nod. Besides, Spielberg is not making award films anymore. I'm surprised to see so any nominations for War Horse, I really am.

One more thing: Academy does usually recognize scores that are very prominent in the film. You know, the mix is good and it makes strong impression. And recent Spielberg films don't exactly do that. War Horse sounds rather disappointing in the film. Not that Williams did a bad job or that it was a bad approach. But the mix was flat. It didn't give that punch. Films like The Social Network, Babel and Brokeback Mountain, Atonement make really good use of their scores. Tintin and War Horse are bit too... again... predictable. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the composition.

Did you think that too when Schindler's List won back in 1994? Or will you change your mind if Williams should win an Oscar for Lincoln next year? :rolleyes:

Again, in retrospect, nothing is easier to make an armchair diagnosis of the situation... like you seem to be fond of doing! (It's too obvious? What does that even mean? Should an "un-obvious" movie/score win then? But it's not always obvious which movie is the "unobvious" movie!)

Anyway, winning an Oscar should be neither the only nor the main objective for a composer, and I am sure it isn't for WIlliams! He is having too much fun scoring movies for his friend Spielberg, and I want him to continue doing that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, in retrospect, nothing is easier to make an armchair diagnosis of the situation... like you seem to be fond of doing! (It's too obvious? What does that even mean? Should an "un-obvious" movie/score win then? But it's not always obvious which movie is the "unobvious" movie!)

I've been saying that for years, BEFORE ceremonies.

Lincoln doesn't seem like a project that would change that. But... I'll wait till I see and hear it.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes!

But who could predict that a little movie about gay cowboys with a budget of

$14 million would turn out to be the Oscar favorite, right?!

If Munich hadn't been nominated (as great a score as it is, Memoirs of a Geisha always stood a better chance), I honestly believe that Williams would have gotten his 6th Oscar then, not Santoallalalalalallalallalalallalalala!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes!

But who could predict that a little movie about gay cowboys with a budget of

$14 million would turn out to be the Oscar favorite, right?!

If Munich hadn't been nominated (as great a score as it is, Memoirs of a Geisha always stood a better chance), I honestly believe that Williams would have gotten his 6th Oscar then, not Santoallalalalalallalallalalallalalala!

That might very well be.

But Memoirs did not not win because it was too obvious or too predictable a choice!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it wasn't. The score had one thing that many of the Spielberg-Williams collaborations didn't: a good sound mix which showcases the score. Not the case with many their more recent works of the two gentlemen. Because remember that we're not talking about scores as written, but scores as used in the film. War Horse, as good as the music was, sounded really weak in the film for the most part. Like it was recorded in mono or something.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it wasn't. The score had one thing that many of the Spielberg-Williams collaborations didn't: a good sound mix which showcases the score. Not the case with many their more recent works of the two gentlemen. Because remember that we're not talking about scores as written, but scores as used in the film. War Horse, as good as the music was, sounded really weak in the film for the most part. Like it was recorded in mono or something.

You do know that Memoirs didn't win either, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would, if not for the double nom.

Karol

Precisely. Memoirs was an artistic of the kind that garners some minor technical awards and this includes Best Original Score. Williams would have won if it wasn't for Munich's nomination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol:

And War Horse would have won, if Ludovic Bource's name had been more pronounable!

:P

No, I don't think it would. It had bad press and a bad mix. Tintin is a better score, as heard in the film.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And War Horse would have won, if Ludovic Bource's name had been more pronounable!

:P

No, I don't think it would. It had bad press and a bad mix. Tintin is a better score, as heard in the film.

Karol

Man, that was a joke, of course!

You seem to hate War Horse! It wasn't that bad!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't think Tintin's mix was that great either - it had too many sound effects to compete with most of the time.

Had a normal score been nominated in place of The Artist, this year could've been extremely interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't think Tintin's mix was that great either - it had too many sound effects to compete with most of the time.

Yes, but still it was the best one since Geisha and first Potter.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Williams scores capture the imagination of millions every day.

Not so many people even know who Howard Shore is.

Personally I think next years oscar winner will be the score performed by the Chicago Symphony.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me it's "Leaving Hogwarts" and "Reunion of Friends"; it never fails to move me every time I hear it. The first Potter film came out when I was in high school and I could fondly remember the good times I had with my friends. I'm proud to say I'm part of the Potter Generation. :wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Williams scores capture the imagination of millions every day.

Hedwig's theme might have been the last time, and even that is doubtful.

Not doubtful at all. Hedwig's Theme was the last time that Williams captured the imagination of millions and it was extremely effective. In fact, the entire Potter score was memorable in that sense. The mainstream can recognize many of the secondary motifs. It was funny, because I once went to a high school to talk to a certain teacher there and in the morning announcements they played a piece of Potter music, it wasn't Hedwig's theme but snippets of Harry's Wondrous World I believe and instantly a girl in the corner was shrieking "Oh my God! It's Harry Potter!!!". People can easily recognize the character with a lot of the minor themes like the family theme and such. None of the non-Williams scores for the Potter franchise, which is why it made no sense to not use Williams previous themes...

John Williams scores capture the imagination of millions every day.

Not so many people even know who Howard Shore is.

The only reason anybody in the mainstream knows John Williams' name is because he did many mega-hit blockbuster franchises (Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, etc.), meanwhile Shore's only done one (and an awesome one at that!). Even with that however, few people know John Williams' name.

Nino Rota, Monty Norman, Bernard Herrman, Maurice Jarre and one might argue even James Horner (well maybe not) are essentially anonymous in the mainstream, yet they've created some of the most iconic musical themes in modern culture.

The fact that Shore's name isn't known to the world has NOTHING to do with the quality of the music and its popularity. Shore may not be well known, but his music is HUGE and VERY popular. Anyone will recognize the iconic heroic Fellowship Theme. Stomp your feet to the five beat Isengard rhythm and any dotard on the street will call out LOTR. The Ring Theme, Lothlorien Theme, Rohan Theme, Gondor Theme, Rivendell Theme and Nature's Reclamation theme are all instantly recognizable by mainstream audiences. Yes, Shore's name might not be particularly popular, but his work for LOTR has become a part of society's culture in a short span of about 10 years.

And as Stefan pointed out, the Hobbit trailer music has become quite popular. And so, regardless of which score is better in quality, I personally think The Hobbit stands a better chance of winning at this moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience the music of LotR is not very iconic, and certainly less iconic than Hedwig's theme (and arguably many of the other themes from HP). Of course that doesn't say anything about the quality of the scores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOTR is definitely not as iconic as Hedwig's Theme (as it is with most powerful Williams melodies), but I believe people will recognize more LOTR themes than other HP themes (although I may be wrong). Even if LOTR isn't as iconic as Williams' Potter scores though, its still quite iconic. Many people can recognize many of LOTR's main themes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on which score I think is better. The Hobbit has a much better shot regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, the Isengard theme is pretty memorable too. I bet the average guy can remember that more vividly than the fellowship theme (mainly because it's been played more times than the fellowship theme).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, the Isengard theme is pretty memorable too. I bet the average guy can remember that more vividly than the fellowship theme (mainly because it's been played more times than the fellowship theme).

Definitely.

And go on YouTube and watch The Lighting of the Beacons scene. Your average joe ain't going there to comment on the beautiful scenery...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You soundtracks collectors tend to forget that "normal people" (as you call them) don't pay attention to music when watching a film, and will only remember a theme if its played loud most of the time, and repeated many times during the course of the film.

Or used extensively outside the film in "the real world" where those people don't listen to soundtrack albums 24/7. In addition to getting movie music from the movies (whodathunkit), they get limited exposure in TV, the news, sports games, and commercials. In that case, only the most popular and obvious themes get saturated into their head.

I'm going to assume they don't go to concerts where movie music is played because the people who do that also tend to listen to soundtrack albums, so they'd cancel out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lincoln is leading the hobbit over at the FSM poll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, yes, I forgot about that one. The Fellowship theme, the Shire theme, and the Isengard theme. BUT THAT'S IT! The average guy doesn't remember the Gondor theme, the Reclamation of Nature theme, or all those other kick-ass themes. No, the average guy remembers He's A Pirate!

I find it interesting how you had to correct yourself twice ;) People will definitely recognize the Fellowship and the Shire, and most definitely the Isengard theme. Anyone who taps that five beat rhythm is bound to get recognized (if only because its been played so much).

I'll admit Nature's Reclamation was pretty far fetched. But It doesn't stop at those themes.

The Ringwraiths theme is actually memorable with the mainstream. I've talked to a couple of average joes who can easily recognize that theme. Just HAAAAA-HA, HA HAAAA-HA (no one knows the lyrics besides obsessive freaks like myself, its Barin Catharad people! The choir is actually singing something!!!) and a couple of people around you understand what you're saying.

In addition to that, people actually recognize the Ring theme too (well the history of the ring theme).I don't know about Gondor and Rohan (although the latter is quite well known by many), but the Lothlorien is actually very well recognized by the main theme (if only because its an exotic eastern sounding tune in a big blockbuster like LOTR).

Believe it or not BloodBoal, these themes actually stick with audiences? How do you think I got to film scores? I used to never pay attention to scores in films (besides stuff like Star Wars)...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.