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Interstellar SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion thread


Jay

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I agree, and yet I don't see what Nolan did as connecting the dots. He tells a story, and what happened happened. Is it not ok that it all comes together? Is the story what people take issue with? Or how it was presented? What would have improved it, if Cooper and TARS hadn't said anything to each other during the tesseract scene? That kind of gripe just doesn't fly in my mind I guess. There's more than enough left to the imagination regardless of that.

The most troubling criticisms of the film though... are the ones that claim massive scientific inaccuracies. I just read an article which was utter nonsense, covering gripes that at best were misunderstandings and at worst just plain wrong, lazy thinking. Seriously, if you're going to get into your armchair physicist mode, at least be right about it.

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The science was definitely one of the things I appreciated about it.

Though when it tried to start quantifying love as some kind of mechanism to propel humanity, of got a little hokey. But I don't remember the film ever playing that much on it.

The thing is a lot of reviews are claiming that the film suggests that love was the fifth dimension and all. I don't quite remember, anyone care to confirm?

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SPOILERS!!!

I just saw the film and first of all, I guess I am a softie but I was actually tearing up a few times. The movie is very good with excellent performances from the leads. The build up is excellent and the structure is very solid. It is probably one of the best sci-fi films I've seen in a very long time and it was much, much better than Danny Boyle's "Sunshine" which has pretend gravitas. But, it could have been slightly better at the cost of some audience acceptance. I think Nolan should trust his instinct a bit more and not the investors! I would have liked about 10-20% deeper philosophy. I think the movies that last beyond their moments have a deeper and greater depth fundamentally. For instance, I found some of the characters way too two dimentional and unrealistic. Mostly this is Anne Hathaway's Amelia character. In short, a bit too much Hollywood treatement with her need for love outweighing survival of the species. Amelia's character was not true. I HATED the hand to hand combat sequence. Not at all true to the characters. Understand that people who go on long space missions are screened for certain emotional phobias. I would most certainly expect that a mission to save earth would screen for the Hollywoodized emotions during the fist combat sequence. I considered this the weakest part of the film (and slightly embarrasingly bad). I would have preferred a more open ended ending such as leaving it unanswered if she found a new earth and having Cooper go on in search of her but that probably would have made the film feel much more like the start of a TV series. I did love that it tried to stay true to the nature of time and gravity which I think has never been done before. I truly felt Coopser/McConaughey's desperation in the black hole sequence. My heart broke for him and Murph. It was a bit predictable. I keep myself away from spoilers but knew before the launch that the "ghost" was probably Cooper or humans. But again, its far better than any other sci-fi I've scene in a very long time.

Don't get me wrong - I really enjoyed the film and it really did affect me and had me quite sad at the end. The music was extremely effective but WAY too loud in the mix. Some moments I could not hear the dialog because the expensive score overtook it so I don't understand what Nolan was thinking other than he does believe in music as a dominant "drop in" devise rather than a nudge. Though I don't know what Zimmer's inspiration was, I can clearly hear Wagner references with Tristan und Isolde but it was tastefully done. I was surprised by Zimmer's score and its power was very effective and this from a Zimmer non believer.

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Yeah, it nearly moved me to tears at some points too. But as you said, Nolan needs to be more trusting to his audience. His need to perfect the plot so that every detail for the big explanation is accounted for is what robs the film of some of its splendour.

And Hathaway played her character great, but her whole spiel about love kind of came out of the blue, and I suppose her character could use more depth.

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KK, the "love" thing is described just as a force that guides and drives us, and it is suggested that this instinct can indeed push us in the right direction - it did with Brand, if Cooper had listened to her and gone to Edmunds' planet first, it's what drove Murph to keep working, brought her back to her bedroom, made her take the watch, it allows Cooper to do what he does in the tesseract and find the right moments, etc. But it doesn't go beyond this. No one ever says that love is the fifth dimension, just that it is a force the origin of which we don't quite understand.

The sound issue was non-existent my second time around. Very odd. Doesn't seem to be a problem with the mix, but with how much theaters are doing to accommodate how complex a mix it is.

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Thanks Grey for clarifying. That's what I got out of the movie when I first watched. But then I see all these reviews and articles that reference the film's supposed claim that love is the fifth dimension. And some articles are starting to over analyze this film, just like they did with Inception. Some Nolan fanboys need to learn how to enjoy the film for what it is....

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Agreed.

As I suspected, all questions and qualms I had evaporated the second time around. Well, except one, and this is something I think warrants more thought and analysis... maybe.

All of those other gravitational anomalies mentioned during the NASA meeting, including the one that crashed Cooper's test flight... what exactly is their nature, if the ones in the house were communication between father and daughter, and the one in the wormhole was Cooper? I feel like there's something to that, and the crash, that I'm missing.

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If there is a parallel universe, I'd rather see Spielberg's version of Interstellar. It'd be more sentimental and manipulative, but it'd be better-paced and Williams' score wouldn't drown out the dialogue.

I think Nolan dropped the ball on this. I had my expectations tempered when Paramount started marketing this, it just didn't click with me. As Nikola Tesla in The Prestige put it, "A man's reach must exceed his grasp" -- well, that happened to Nolan here.

The theme of the story -- the bond between father and daughter -- is very potent and there are some great scenes (especially at the end) where the movie fulfills part of its ambitions. However, I was paying attention to the plot and the thing about astrophysics and the space-time continuum -- it still confused me. I also think the film is more ponderous than it should when the pace should be picking up. There's some fat that could've been cut to maintain interest.

It's a shame. It has so much potential, most of the acting is great, and from a visual standpoint, it looks fantastic. But the overly complicated plot and a miscast McConaughey just doesn't click with me.

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Your loss!

Seriously dude, if you felt the pacing was off that's one thing (although ponderous reeks suspiciously of a desire for constant high-octane crap). But complicated plot? Score drowning out the dialogue? One is the mark of a lazy viewer, and the other is a technical hiccup on the part of the theater.

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As with most Nolan films, they benefit most with multiple viewings.

I think Nolan struck a good balance between the science behind it and the main plot. Wasn't confusing for me at least.

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Interstellar was ultimately a disappointment. Long, slow. Nihilistic to a point of almost no hope. It had Wes Bentley with no purpose. It had a black character to give the film a black character. Michael Caine is in the film because ever Chris Nolan film has Michael Caine in it. It's a movie about earth dying but instead of trying to save her the goal is to abandon her. And someone decided they needed to have an attempted murder sequence. The bookcase sequence will please the potheads who tonight are doing that fist explosion thing off the sides of their heads. The two best things in the film are Matthew McConaughey and shockingly an effective Hanz Zimmer score. It's also an ugly looking film. What it probably needed most was a rewrite and a major edit. I think Spielberg wouldn't have made a better film. He recognized the flaws and washed his hands. John would never have done what Hanz did. But HZ did something I kind of dug.

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It's a movie about earth dying but instead of trying to save her the goal is to abandon her.

I have not seen it but isn't this the point of the story? That they must leave earth because it's beyond hope?

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Karelm, where did you hear Wagner? Just in the rising seventh gesture of one of the themes?

I thought it was the love theme (or is that the time theme? Or the ghost theme?). I guess the ghost theme can be considered as love across time. In the big version of this rising theme which happens when cooper is in the wormhole and touches Amelia as a ghost, the theme soars like the deceptive resolution in the Tristan prelude bar 17-18. I don't think it's a stretch to associate these two musically since both deal with deeply meaningful and unattainable longing, separation, and loss.
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Your loss!

Seriously dude, if you felt the pacing was off that's one thing (although ponderous reeks suspiciously of a desire for constant high-octane crap). But complicated plot? Score drowning out the dialogue? One is the mark of a lazy viewer, and the other is a technical hiccup on the part of the theater.

That's not a problem with the theater, it's Nolan's. I blame him for mixing the music far too high. That problem has been noted in all sorts of theaters, even carefully calibrated ones.

Look, if you like it... great. But this doesn't fire on all cylinders for me.

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Just got back from it. What a load of solipsistic, second-hand, mushy crap - more Shyamalan than Zemeckis (let alone Spielberg or Kubrick). Nolan has no cinematic eye, and he simply can't direct actors. Sorry, Grey.

I think I'd like the score on its own, but in the context of film, it was overbearing and reaching for a significance it hadn't earned. Best moments were cut from a very similar cloth to MOS, though not as moving.

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Why did you even go and see it on the opening weekend then? Is there no better way for you to spend money? Not a spiteful comment, by the way. Just an honest question. It seems quite puzzling you'd even want to bother, given your feelings about Nolan. You see, I'm not very fond of Fincher and I don't rush to see his films.

Karol

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It's a mess. The conclusion is such bullshit. Some on you say it's Nolan's most personal film. REALLY? How is it personally? Does he have a family in dustbowl America? Has he experienced the events in this film. Is his daughter now nearly 90 years older than he is?

Why is there a drone flying around for what? 10 years did they say. What was the point how did it advance the story line?

That grandious statement man was born here he wasn't meant to die here, is the supposed to be profound.

To be fair MM is the life blood of this film. He is fascinating to watch. Zimmer give the film a non standard score that actually works.

Two last thing. I love corn more than anyone I know but man that was a lot of corn to eat. And I burst out laughing when Murphy was being punished for believing we'd actually gone to the moon.

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Your loss!

Seriously dude, if you felt the pacing was off that's one thing (although ponderous reeks suspiciously of a desire for constant high-octane crap). But complicated plot? Score drowning out the dialogue? One is the mark of a lazy viewer, and the other is a technical hiccup on the part of the theater.

That's not a problem with the theater, it's Nolan's. I blame him for mixing the music far too high. That problem has been noted in all sorts of theaters, even carefully calibrated ones.

Look, if you like it... great. But this doesn't fire on all cylinders for me.

All sorts of theaters but not ALL theaters. If it were the actual film as distributed it would crop up everywhere.

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Are you going to brush every every single person's critique by simply stating that said person is being stupid/biased/fussy/didn't understand it?

Is the film absolutely 100% perfect Grey, in your opinion? No flaws or little niggles what so ever?

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One design element that I thought was very interesting was that the space ships, the station etc were often clad on the outside with what looked like a type of thick, weaved fabric. Like a burlap cover for protection or insulation purposes. I've never really seen anything like that. Very cool!

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Are you going to brush every every single person's critique by simply stating that said person is being stupid/biased/fussy/didn't understand it?

Is the film absolutely 100% perfect Grey, in your opinion? No flaws or little niggles what so ever?

I already answered this. If someone has a gripe that seems unfounded, I'm going to challenge it to promote discussion. So quit this white knight stuff.

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Why did you even go and see it on the opening weekend then? Is there no better way for you to spend money? Not a spiteful comment, by the way. Just an honest question. It seems quite puzzling you'd even want to bother, given your feelings about Nolan. You see, I'm not very fond of Fincher and I don't rush to see his films.

Karol

What an unfair point. In this day and age the best time to see a film tends to be opening weekend.

Perhaps Sharky enjoys the film experience with a crowd? I know some reject that here but maybe he tends to get more enjoyment. He did say he had hopes. Isnt that a good enough reason to see the film?

I know despite my laundry list of problems with the film I would encourage people to see it and form their own opinions of the film.

One design element that I thought was very interesting was that the space ships, the station etc were often clad on the outside with what looked like a type of thick, weaved fabric. Like a burlap cover for protection or insulation purposes. I've never really seen anything like that. Very cool!

Pretty standard actually. Nothing new or earth shattering.

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Why did you even go and see it on the opening weekend then? Is there no better way for you to spend money? Not a spiteful comment, by the way. Just an honest question. It seems quite puzzling you'd even want to bother, given your feelings about Nolan. You see, I'm not very fond of Fincher and I don't rush to see his films.

Karol

What an unfair point. In this day and age the best time to see a film tends to be opening weekend.

Perhaps Sharky enjoys the film experience with a crowd? I know some reject that here but maybe he tends to get more enjoyment. He did say he had hopes. Isnt that a good enough reason to see the film?

Joey, it was just a question. Karol wasn't accusing anyone. And Sharky answered accordingly, that he had some hope that he might enjoy the movie.

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Another gripe. Who the hell would launch a rocket that size from inside the complex? That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Sorry KK Carol was being unfair in his comments to sharky.

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Your loss!

Seriously dude, if you felt the pacing was off that's one thing (although ponderous reeks suspiciously of a desire for constant high-octane crap). But complicated plot? Score drowning out the dialogue? One is the mark of a lazy viewer, and the other is a technical hiccup on the part of the theater.

That's not a problem with the theater, it's Nolan's. I blame him for mixing the music far too high. That problem has been noted in all sorts of theaters, even carefully calibrated ones.

Look, if you like it... great. But this doesn't fire on all cylinders for me.

All sorts of theaters but not ALL theaters. If it were the actual film as distributed it would crop up everywhere.

It was crazy loud score in the mix and part of this is Zimmer's approach to scoring being broad strokes rather than writing around the scene or the dialog. Most people won't notice this other than by saying the film is too loud but its not the film, its the score in relation to the dialog that is too loud. I'm not taking about the ambient music sequences like Saturn but scenes such as when they are chasing the drone in the car. Clearly a big element of the Nolan vocabulary is a pulsing score...we get it. But here and Inception he's relying way too much on the music sound levels to drive intensity.

Can someone answer this: who brought the wormhole to Saturn? We are told "them" but is that Cooper in the future or another entity that was not addressed?

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Another gripe. Who the hell would launch a rocket that size from inside the complex? That's a disaster waiting to happen.

It's the future Joe. It's possible that before the USA lost it's technological innovation and began denying the moon missions ever took place they invented a type of concrete able to withstand the pressure.

I didnt hear you complain when the Phoenix launched from a giant silo in First Contact.

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Another gripe. Who the hell would launch a rocket that size from inside the complex? That's a disaster waiting to happen.

It's the future Joe. It's possible that before the USA lost it's technological innovation and began denying the moon missions ever took place they invented a type of concrete able to withstand the pressure.

I didnt hear you complain when the Phoenix launched from a giant silo in First Contact.

Now that's the imagination I'm looking for!

We launched Saturn V's essentially 1/4 enclosed in the 70s. It's reasonable to think that by the film's period, especially out of necessity, enclosed launches are the norm. Much riskier but improved technology could cushion that.

Also consider that the NASA site is itself a space station and not a "complex" exactly.

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Because the Phoenix was a Titan 2 rocket in a launch silo originally designed to nuke a target. And my father knew the aftermath of a disaster in a titan 2 silo when I was a small child he had to go help remove 50 bodies after a fuel leak from a silo north of Little Rock.

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Your loss!

Seriously dude, if you felt the pacing was off that's one thing (although ponderous reeks suspiciously of a desire for constant high-octane crap). But complicated plot? Score drowning out the dialogue? One is the mark of a lazy viewer, and the other is a technical hiccup on the part of the theater.

That's not a problem with the theater, it's Nolan's. I blame him for mixing the music far too high. That problem has been noted in all sorts of theaters, even carefully calibrated ones.

Look, if you like it... great. But this doesn't fire on all cylinders for me.

All sorts of theaters but not ALL theaters. If it were the actual film as distributed it would crop up everywhere.

It was crazy loud score in the mix and part of this is Zimmer's approach to scoring being broad strokes rather than writing around the scene or the dialog. Most people won't notice this other than by saying the film is too loud but its not the film, its the score in relation to the dialog that is too loud. I'm not taking about the ambient music sequences like Saturn but scenes such as when they are chasing the drone in the car. Clearly a big element of the Nolan vocabulary is a pulsing score...we get it. But here and Inception he's relying way too much on the music sound levels to drive intensity.

Can someone answer this: who brought the wormhole to Saturn? We are told "them" but is that Cooper in the future or another entity that was not addressed?

There's little to say about your problems with Zimmer's approach, except to consider that it isn't a problem for many people when not aggravated by a wonky mix.

As for the wormhole, that is the work of whoever built the tesseract, whoever you choose to believe they are. Cooper suggests it is the humanity of the far future.

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We didn't launch Saturn V's 1/4 enclosed. They were far away in case of an accidental explosion. Ask the Ruskies what happened when their moon rocket exploded. How many died?

But maybe you guys are right, maybe they could contain a disaster had the rocket blown up. But then again they couldn't keep the dust out.

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As for the wormhole, that is the work of whoever built the tesseract, whoever you choose to believe they are. Cooper suggests it is the humanity of the far future.

Hmm, that is an interesting solution. So humanity does survive into the far future and ultimately intervenes at the point when rocketry and history are at a pivitol point. So the fifth dimensional beings are humans of the far future who are no longer bound by time or is time absent in the black hole resulting in what appears to be fifth dimensional beings? Interesting.

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Joey the launch tower put one side of the rocket at risk. Essentially the same as launching it against a wall. That's why "clearing the tower" was always such a big deal.

The film doesn't ask you to interpret much, no, but Cooper's speculation isn't necessarily true. There's no reason to assume it isn't. It suggests that there's this sort of recursive intervention happening: "they" are helping Cooper to help Murph help her species, and who's to say someone isn't helping "them" even further up?

And since this is all happening outside of time, it avoids any pesky loop paradoxes.

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Yeah well we're 21st century beings who are bound by 3 dimensions and logic and this film could have used a little more logic. I was so wanting to be blown away. Perhaps my expectations were too high. Perhaps I should have gone to see Big Hero 6 instead.

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So it seems like an update of the vintage sci-fi movies of the 1950s like "When Worlds Collide". Basically, earth running out of time...civilization collapses while the scientists work on a desparate plan for seeding earth 2. I think if you like sci-fi and don't have too much expectation of grandiosity but rather enjoy the genre with a desparate father/daughter story and very respectable scientific elements then its a good movie. Not perfect, not revolutionary ala 2001, but a solid and entertaining film.

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The film doesn't ask you to interpret much, no, but Cooper's speculation isn't necessarily true. There's no reason to assume it isn't. It suggests that there's this sort of recursive intervention happening: "they" are helping Cooper to help Murph help her species, and who's to say someone isn't helping "them" even further up?

Now you are reaching. The film, through Cooper states very clearly who or what the "aliens" are. You may chose to believe something different, but that is out of personal bias.

So it seems like an update of the vintage sci-fi movies of the 1950s like "When Worlds Collide". Basically, earth running out of time...civilization calapses while the scientists work on a desparate plan for seeding earth 2. I think if you like sci-fi and don't have too much expectation of grandiosity but rather enjoy the genre with a desparate father/daughter story and very respectable scientific elements then its a good movie. Not perfect, not revolutionary ala 2001, but a solid film.

THIS!

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Yeah, it seemed like the film was clearly telling us that ultimately there was no intervention from the extra-terrestrial, and that it was all the work of humanity.

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