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Question to violin players


Swordfish392

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Hey guys, long time no see :)

I've seen a lot of scores where the first violins are using octave double stops for sweeping melody lines.

Just wondering, are there any restrains or things that aren't possible in general here?

For an example please check the attached score, where the first violins play in parallel octave double stops. Would this be playable? (if yes, it's pretty hard to play isn't it?)

PS: I would also love to know about parallel octave double stops on the double bass. Would be awesome if someone could help out here as well.

best,

Swordfish392

spy game.pdf

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I assume he is referring to unis in bars 5 to 7 which should be noted as "non-div" if you want it to be played as a double stop. That is playable and there are examples in the orchestral literature of this. Remember that each open string is a 5th apart. As the violin goes higher on the E string, the notes get closer together. So the lower notes would be on the A string. There is some flexing involved but doable. Note that the higher you go the harder it is to be in tune so that means the greater expertise is needed and you go pretty high for an amateur, not that high for a pro. I did something similar for a solo violin in one of my pieces and they were pretty good (some intonation issues) but didn't struggle at all with that passage doing a simliar thing. Also important is the tempo which is missing.

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Hey guys, long time no see :)

I've seen a lot of scores where the first violins are using octave double stops for sweeping melody lines.

Just wondering, are there any restrains or things that aren't possible in general here?

For an example please check the attached score, where the first violins play in parallel octave double stops. Would this be playable? (if yes, it's pretty hard to play isn't it?)

PS: I would also love to know about parallel octave double stops on the double bass. Would be awesome if someone could help out here as well.

best,

Swordfish392

Writing non divisi octaves in the basses will probably get you nasty looks from that section.

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Divisi octaves sound terrific though.

On a similar note, what's the lowest you can detune a bass's C string to? Bb, A, Ab? I remember Goldenthal getting them to detune to Bb for when Brian Glover gets picked up by the xenomorph in ALIEN 3.

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Hey guys, this helps a lot! Also thanks to karelm :)

Btw, any advice on the score? (which is basically just a short string arrangement using the spy game theme) How about the legato lines and orchestration?
You'll find a new, slightly improved version in the attachements.

Also, here's a link to an audio file...however the samples are like 12 years old....so please don't expect anything

https://www.sendspace.com/file/knk82c

best,

Swordfish392

spy game 2.pdf

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Divisi octaves sound terrific though.

On a similar note, what's the lowest you can detune a bass's C string to? Bb, A, Ab? I remember Goldenthal getting them to detune to Bb for when Brian Glover gets picked up by the xenomorph in ALIEN 3.

It depends if you want it to be played in tune above the open string. George Crumb and others have detuned to B flat. You can get an A but all other fingerings are now off position on the C string which will be out of tune and the players won't be very happy with you.

Hey guys, this helps a lot! Also thanks to karelm :)

Btw, any advice on the score? (which is basically just a short string arrangement using the spy game theme) How about the legato lines and orchestration?

You'll find a new, slightly improved version in the attachements.

Also, here's a link to an audio file...however the samples are like 12 years old....so please don't expect anything

https://www.sendspace.com/file/knk82c

best,

Swordfish392

It sounds nice. Don't forget dynamics, hairpins, expressive markings, etc. Though these things might be obvious to you, you'll get questions which can quickly eat a session. If this would be played live, what is the ensemble size? If its a full string section, do you really want the violin 1 to be non-div? If it's a solo, there is no other way to play that than non-div. I like that you don't overdo the bass and have nice contrary motion. one minor thing for me is that the style expects the last bar to not resolve on beat 3 but on the downbeat of the next bar. Sort of ended sooner than expected by 1/2 a bar.

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Yes, the first violins are meant to be played non divisi for a more vigorous effect.

Just wondering would the parallel double stops octave phrase also be playable on cellis? (...if I'd place the whole thing a few octaves below of course)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Speaking from experience on the violin, I would discourage double stops in melodic lines, it's playable but sounds a lot more strained in the tutti. I've never encountered non-div octaves in legato passages in any orchestral piece I played. If you're going for a slight arpeggiated effect, non-div short chords are fine (although they often get divided in practise anyway if it disturbs intonation).

I don't know which scores you looked at, but I would guess the melodic lines in octaves are all meant to be played divisi, that way each player can really lay on the expressiveness and the result will be a lot more sweeping :) (playing vibrato on octave double stops is not very easy to get to sound good, moreso if several players trz in unison)

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