The Hobbit Trilogy versus The Prequels

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Many similarities between the two.

Both are prequels to 3 earlier films.

Both are generally seem as inferior to those earlier films

Both are directed by a man who people thought was great, but now seems to have lost his mind.

Both have had their scores ill-treated.

But which is/are better?

And which has the better score?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not a tough call for me at all. The Hobbit films, as flawed as frustrating as they are arent nearly as bad as the Prequels, which I havent watched in 10 years now and will never watch again if I can in any way avoid it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But PJ's The Hobbit is merely an adaptation. The great source material is still there. Unsullied.

The Prequels is all we will ever have!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No we don't!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[mrbellamy 6,272]

The thing is, PJ was working from source material that was quality stuff (so he had a big advantage over Lucas in that regard). And yet, he managed to make a huge mess out of a pretty straightforward book, so in a way his failure is bigger than Lucas'!

Also as bad as the prequels were (and for the purposes of this poll, I do think they're probably worse than The Hobbit movies) I feel like Jackson has less of an excuse for turning out a shitty product. I mean, I don't know, do we feel like there was tons of room for potential with Lucas still calling all the shots? Those movies are awful but boy, they're sincere...overly so. Whereas The Hobbit, the worst part of it is that we know what Jackson et al were capable of. It all feels so half-hearted.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MedigoScan 324]

I dont care about potential and what not

I care about the result

And the result is that the SW prequels are clearly far worse

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Will Tasker 21]

Say everything you want about the Star Wars prequels - they're Lucas's material, he can do whatever he wants. At least it's coming from "the horse's mouth".

The Hobbit Trilogy is a terrible cashgrab that < explitive > all over another man's legacy. It also doesn't help that they're filled with intolerable, meaningless subplots and the most hilariously inept action sequences ever filmed. (I saw this kinda nonsense coming by the time Legolas was sliding down elephant trunks in Return Of The King)

(If I were a more crass person, I'd say it took Peter Jackson far less time time to fall much farther in terms of quality of output than Lucas. At least George waited 20 years before giving us the half-baked Prequels. Jackson went right in the drink in half that time.)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Will Tasker 21]

To be fair to the guy, though, PJ originally didn't want to direct The Hobbit.

To be fair, I'm sure they threw an ungodly amount of cash at him instead of, say, putting a revolver to his head.

Which should speak both ways to the scruples of Hollywood's caring of source material and talent.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Only Nixon could go to China!

[Barnald 365]

Say everything you want about the Star Wars prequels - they're Lucas's material, he can do whatever he wants. At least it's coming from "the horse's mouth".

The Hobbit Trilogy is a terrible cashgrab that < explitive > all over another man's legacy. It also doesn't help that they're filled with intolerable, meaningless subplots and the most hilariously inept action sequences ever filmed. (I saw this kinda nonsense coming by the time Legolas was sliding down elephant trunks in Return Of The King)

(If I were a more crass person, I'd say it took Peter Jackson far less time time to fall much farther in terms of quality of output than Lucas. At least George waited 20 years before giving us the half-baked Prequels. Jackson went right in the drink in half that time.)

Well we can't really judge the quality of Lucas' directing for a 20-year plus period, so that comparison seems a little odd. Who knows what shit he might have got up to in the late 80s and early 90s if he'd felt so inclined.

If Jackson had taken a break after ROTK and come back for The Hobbit, the shock would be far greater. But King Kong definitely provided some warning signs as to the excess to come.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

The Hobbit is like seeing a champion marathon runner walk it the following year, because he's already made millions from sponsors and he's currently enamored with his new iPhone.

Star Wars is like seeing a veteran champ return after 20 years -- also having made millions and also currently enamored with his new iPhone -- but instead he blindly sprints away from the track and off the nearest cliff, thinking he's still winning.

Which one is worse? Which one is more interesting? Which one are you still thinking about 10 years later?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

None of the above!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We will watch Fury Road instead!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Why not just watch The Road Warrior?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Because The Road Warrior, as good as it is, doesn't have Furiosa!

[KK 3,307]

The Hobbit is like seeing a champion marathon runner walk it the following year, because he's already made millions from sponsors and he's currently enamored with his new iPhone.

Star Wars is like seeing a veteran champ return after 20 years -- also having made millions and also currently enamored with his new iPhone -- but instead he blindly sprints away from the track and off the nearest cliff, thinking he's still winning.

Which one is worse? Which one is more interesting? Which one are you still thinking about 10 years later?

That's a good point.

People will still be talking about TPM, disastrous as it was, for years to come. I give The Hobbit films 5 years tops, before they're forgotten. A film with no legacy might be "worse" than a film with a bad one.

Objectively, on a quality basis though, the Hobbit films are better than the prequels, which I owe largely to a great cast and some nice moments.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with KK. The Hobbit trilogy isnt bad enough to live in infamy the way TPM still does

[Barnald 365]

Because The Road Warrior, as good as it is, doesn't have Furiosa!

The Road Warrior wants for nothing. That and the original shit all over Fury Road. You must know this deep down.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

I'm deadly serious when it comes to Mad Max.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

The Hobbit films are not going to be forgotten. The prequels do get a lot of attention though, due to how much they seem to be hated and people have fun picking them apart.

Of course they will be! They lack the visual intrigue, scope in production, emotional resonance or significant mainstream following to last in the public consciousness. And these films weren't "awful" enough to enter the zeitgeist in the same way that the SW prequels did.

Aside from the die-hard PJ/Tolkien fans, these films will be tossed off alongside other profitable average/mediocre CGI fantasy flicks like Alice in Wonderland, Malificent, etc.

None of these films will be talked about 10 years from now.

Meanwhile, the SW prequels, in their colossal failure, and in the ways they've changed the industry (for better or for worse), will never really lose its mark. Same goes for LOTR, but just in a good way.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Of course they will be! They lack the visual intrigue, scope in production, emotional resonance or significant mainstream follow to last in the public consciousness. And these films weren't "awful" enough to enter the zeitgeist in the same way that the SW prequels did.

Aside from the Tolkien fans, these films will be tossed off alongside other profitable average/mediocre CGI fantasy flicks like Alice in Wonderland, Malificent, etc.

None of these films will be talked about 10 years from now.

Yep.

[Barnald 365]

I think, with the SW prequels, it is important to realize that Star Wars in general is in another stratosphere to LOTR/Tolkien (in film terms at least) when it comes to public awareness, pop culture and nostalgia. Being born in the 80s, I perhaps wasn't quite aware to what degree until seeing the hype for The Force Awakens. I was a massive Star Wars geek when I was younger, but then the prequels came out (I was about 13 when TPM was released). I'll always have a great love for the OT, but the prequels were horrible and really dampened my enthusiasm for any more films. But I'm amazed how they apparently haven't done the same for most people, with people seemingly forgetting the notion of Episodes I-III and the idea that a Star Wars film can be shit. It was then that I realized just how all-encompassing this franchise is. It can swallow failures like they were nothing. We can heckle him all we want, but what a genius Lucas is, even with the prequels. Kids lapped them up, and the animated series' have helped fuel the interests of new generations, while keeping the Star Wars toy brand incredibly potent. Now we have multiple generations with an interest in Star Wars, stretching almost 40 years, and the future of the franchise seems stronger than ever. He knew what the fuck he was doing.

In short, I don't think any kind of remembrance of the prequels will have anything to do with the quality of the filmmaking, be it good or bad. It's just because they're part of the Star Wars saga, and it's seemingly more rampant than at any time before.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It is. Star Wars is like motion picture royalty

[KK 3,307]

Yup. SW is definitely greater than LOTR in terms of legacy.

And I think you seem to be overestimating the Hobbit films' impact, possibly because of all the active discussions on boards like JWFan and TORN. But in the real world, their presence was fleeting, and people didn't really put the time to hate or love these films past their theatrical run.

What the Hobbit films have going for them is the Tolkienite/PJ-fan community, which while significant, does not reflect the majority. Only LOTR had a real effect on the cultural zeitgeist. And in the years to come, pop cultural references in relation to Tolkien will reference LOTR films, not the Hobbit trilogy. And the LOTR brand isn't as colossal as SW to help carry the Hobbit films in name and reputation.

[Jay 37,287]

The Hobbit films are essentially a non-event to the general movie-going community. Hardly anyone outside of the hardcore fans are even aware there's a BOFA EE coming out soon, I'm sure.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Indeed.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sure....

[KK 3,307]

That's not my point SUH. Outside of these boards and die-hard Tolkien communities, no one even bothers to talk about these films, good or bad. No one cares.

Like Jay said, most people probably don't know about the EE release. There was a time (during the LOTR film releases), where that was more of an event.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Maybe not, I wouldn't really know. But those releases were still coming off the high of the films.

I was pretty young then, with little knowledge of Tolkien, but even I felt traces of the LOTR euphoria around the 2003 awards season. The Hobbit films got none of that.

[Jay 37,287]

Back when the LOTR EEs came out, they were definitely bigger deals. I'd talk about them with random coworkers. When each one came out, I hosted a viewing event at my apartment, and tons of friends came over. I think we had like 20 people watching the TTT EE DVD at my apt!

For the Hobbit EEs, none of my friends would have any interest in watching them. I don't know anybody who liked the films in real life! Some kinda of like AUJ, but was over everything by DOS and BOFA. When I went to see the BOFA EE in the theater the other week, there were only 5 other people in the theater with me!

In December of 2003, I went to a marathon screening the day before ROTK's wide release that showed FOTR EE, TTT EE, and then the premiere of ROTK. It was sold out.

[KK 3,307]

I managed to get a decent viewing party of about 7-8 for AUJ, all of whom went in pretty interested (they were casual LOTR fans), but came out somewhat bored or disappointed. I managed to drag 1 person to BotFA, and that was my girlfriend at the time.

[Will Tasker 21]

What the Hobbit films have going for them is the Tolkienite/PJ-fan community, which while significant, does not reflect the majority. Only LOTR had a real effect on the cultural zeitgeist. And in the years to come, pop cultural references in relation to Tolkien will reference LOTR films, not the Hobbit trilogy.

We'll have to wait and see, but I don't think this is the case at all. I've been plenty of references to the Hobbit - mainly Bilbo finding the ring and Smaug. I'm confident these 'pop cultural' references will stick with the film franchise.

That's not my point SUH. Outside of these boards and die-hard Tolkien communities, no one even bothers to talk about these films, good or bad. No one cares.

Like Jay said, most people probably don't know about the EE release. There was a time (during the LOTR film releases), where that was more of an event.

You say that as if the LOTR EEs were a big event for most people.

I have to ask - and I don't mean this in an unkind way - how old you are? I was in my early 20s when the LOTR films came out and I have distinct memories of the Expanded 4 disc DVD sets being a major deal to everyone when they came out.

[Jay 37,287]

I'm the same age and yup, there was for sure a lot of buzz around those LOTR EE DVD sets coming out. It was pretty unprecedented at the time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I managed to drag 1 person to BotFA, and that was my girlfriend at the time.

She broke up with you because you actually had to drag her!

[Will Tasker 21]

I managed to drag 1 person to BotFA, and that was my girlfriend at the time.

She broke up with you because you actually had to drag her!

Hell, I saw that movie by myself and I considered leaving me too.