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Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (JJ Abrams 2015)


crocodile

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This is interesting news. I'm still processing, but here's what I'm thinkin' so far:

- Abrams is a very talented director whose work I've enjoyed (Marian's right—Trek is hardly the only thing the man's done), but he'll need to change his style a bit for this one. He's outstanding when it comes to creating a realistic, "documentarian" feel for his stories, which worked superbly for Cloverfield and Super 8, though only marginally for Star Trek. His trademark and controversial lens flare is his attempt to remove the gauze of fiction and fantasy draped over most films. Like I said, this works in some cases better than others. (I didn't mind it in Star Trek half as much as some people did; it was kind of interesting to see a what-if-Starfleet-were-really-real sort of movie for a change.) But it absolutely, positively will not work for the Star Wars franchise. That entire universe is the stuff of mythology. We don't want to see a documentary-style SW film. We want the fantasy gauze in place and where it belongs for this one. Mind you, the lens flare is just one example of this general approach; he needs to alter his entire premise, and go in a direction we haven't seen him go before. Is he willing to do so?

- Whatever else may be the case, Abrams could hardly screw up the franchise any worse than Lucas did.

- And I have to confess . . . I wouldn't mind seeing something of a "reboot" with this. I don't mean hitting the reset button like he did with Trek. Just give us a new storyline in the same setting, something that doesn't rely on the original characters and situations. A cameo or two would be fun, but no more than that. We had to get saddled with backstory the last time around. Let's move forward this time. An entirely fresh perspective will be just the thing the franchise needs . . . and Abrams is just the guy to bring it. I think he can do a fine job. Again, the question remains: will he?

- Giacchino, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. J.J. made hay on the Super 8 commentaries that he wanted Michael to score the film with something that would evoke Williams' Close Encounters. While it was a decent effort, I didn't hear much of anything in S8 that even remotely resembled CE3K. And that makes me very skeptical about his ability to evoke the atmosphere of Star Wars. Again, he's an accomplished composer (and, like the lens flare issue, I enjoyed his score for Trek more than a lot of other people, it seems). But we're not talking about laying tracks for another Flinstones movie here. This is Star Wars, fercryinoutloud. Let's be honest: in the case of the original trilogy, the music is at least half the experience. And too often Giacchino just doesn't bring the fireworks, at least for me.

Of course I'm praying Williams will be willing, healthy, and available for the entire run. If he's not, we'll get what we get. Personally . . . I would love to see what James Newton Howard would do with this kind of job. He's such a phenomenally lyrical writer. And he has an incredible knack for giving great music to movies that don't deserve anything so good. I think he'd create quite a tapestry out of homage to the original themes and freedom to create something new.

- Uni

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- Giacchino, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. J.J. made hay on the Super 8 commentaries that he wanted Michael to score the film with something that would evoke Williams' Close Encounters. While it was a decent effort, I didn't hear much of anything in S8 that even remotely resembled CE3K. And that makes me very skeptical about his ability to evoke the atmosphere of Star Wars. Again, he's an accomplished composer (and, like the lens flare issue, I enjoyed his score for Trek more than a lot of other people, it seems). But we're not talking about laying tracks for another Flinstones movie here. This is Star Wars, fercryinoutloud. Let's be honest: in the case of the original trilogy, the music is at least half the experience. And too often Giacchino just doesn't bring the fireworks, at least for me.

Of course I'm praying Williams will be willing, healthy, and available for the entire run. If he's not, we'll get what we get. Personally . . . I would love to see what James Newton Howard would do with this kind of job. He's such a phenomenally lyrical writer. And he has an incredible knack for giving great music to movies that don't deserve anything so good. I think he'd create quite a tapestry out of homage to the original themes and freedom to create something new.

I would give JNH a chance. He could actually do something very appropiate.

Giacchino might do it for me or not. I would have no idea what to expect. He tends to surprise me ("whoah, I didn't expect he would nail this and this") and disappoint me ("he didn't do this and this") at the same time.

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- Giacchino, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. J.J. made hay on the Super 8 commentaries that he wanted Michael to score the film with something that would evoke Williams' Close Encounters. While it was a decent effort, I didn't hear much of anything in S8 that even remotely resembled CE3K. And that makes me very skeptical about his ability to evoke the atmosphere of Star Wars. Again, he's an accomplished composer (and, like the lens flare issue, I enjoyed his score for Trek more than a lot of other people, it seems). But we're not talking about laying tracks for another Flinstones movie here. This is Star Wars, fercryinoutloud. Let's be honest: in the case of the original trilogy, the music is at least half the experience. And too often Giacchino just doesn't bring the fireworks, at least for me.

I actually think Giacchino's a great composer. But I don't think he's as great at channeling Williams as people like to make him out to be.

And as you said, this is Star Wars. Frankly, I don't give a damn about the film. But the music is such a huge part of the franchise and of film culture. They do make like half the original films. And personally, I don't think Giacchino's sound is quite right for that world.

I want some of the guys with a bigger sound and quite capable of writing great orchestral music.

And I know I keep rubbing his name in...

...but hey, one can dream!

Of course I'm praying Williams will be willing, healthy, and available for the entire run. If he's not, we'll get what we get. Personally . . . I would love to see what James Newton Howard would do with this kind of job. He's such a phenomenally lyrical writer. And he has an incredible knack for giving great music to movies that don't deserve anything so good. I think he'd create quite a tapestry out of homage to the original themes and freedom to create something new.

If James Newton Howard wrote stuff like "The Great Eatlon" or his great work for some of his older animated films (ex. Dinosaur), he'd be a phenomenal choice. But he doesn't quite write like that as much.

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I was genuinely surprised recently when the credits rolled on my daughter's Dinosaur dvd and I saw Newton Howard did the music. It stood out very much I noticed throughout the movie and his name was the last I expected to see.

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If the grapevine is correct Disney paid *A Crap Ton* of money to get J.J. Abrams (and Bad Robot) to sign on.

It will be very interesting to see how Bad Robot and LucasFilm Companies will collaborate on this as there are a lot of areas where they overlap.

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I wonder if the BAD ROBOT logo will appear at the beginning of the film? The first 6 episodes only have Fox Logo then Lucasfilm Logo then the main title.

Then again the first three LOTR Movies just had New Line logo followed by Wingnut FIlms while the Hobbit tril has MGM, then New Line, then WIngnut.

How was that Theatrical Clone Wars movie handled?

The bigger question is will JJ Abrams get his "A Film By JJ Abrams" credit at the beginning of the movie? Lucas had to pay a fine to not have Kershner's name be shown before TESB, and then he hired a non-DGA director to direct ROTJ,

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No composer is going to be as good as Williams. Given that we should ask the question, which composer would most respect Williams's themes and approach. Giachinno would certainly be high on that list. Remember too, the Star Trek films have always had distinct musical identities. I think for Star Wars, particularly episode VII, the musical approach will be as an extension of ROTJ.

Moreover, while not probable, I could imagine Williams writing the themes and letting Gia do the scoring as with HPCS and Superman IV, and I could easily imagine Gia liking that arrangment for at least the first film. It would serve as a nice transition.

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I wonder if the BAD ROBOT logo will appear at the beginning of the film? The first 6 episodes only have Fox Logo then Lucasfilm Logo then the main title.

Then again the first three LOTR Movies just had New Line logo followed by Wingnut FIlms while the Hobbit tril has MGM, then New Line, then WIngnut.

How was that Theatrical Clone Wars movie handled?

The bigger question is will JJ Abrams get his "A Film By JJ Abrams" credit at the beginning of the movie? Lucas had to pay a fine to not have Kershner's name be shown before TESB, and then he hired a non-DGA director to direct ROTJ,

Well, it will probably be The Disney logo, then Bad Robot, and then Lucasfilm.

As for film credits, that stuff doesn't matter anymore. A Lot of films don't even have anything at the beginning of them anymore (i.e. Nolan's Batman's, etc.)

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How was that Theatrical Clone Wars movie handled?

Warner Bros, then Lucafilms Logo, IRRC.

Its going to be weird not having the FOx fanfare... they can add any logos to it...it wont be the same :P

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How was that Theatrical Clone Wars movie handled?

It went as follows: Warner Bros logo, Lucasfilm logo, then the opening credits.

I seriously think Disney will arrange something with Fox for Episode VII. I wouldn't be surprised if all the marketing items (posters, trailers, et al), and the film's opening utilize the Fox logo and fanfare. You think I'm kidding? Disney did that for The Avengers, using Paramount's logo and name on the film... and only at the very end of the credits does it say "Distributed by Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures."

I would bet money on that happening with Episode VII.

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That's probably due to the deal when they bought Marvel. There was already a deal in place with Paramount and Disney made some arrangement to shorten the deal, of which having Paramount's logo in the front was probably part of.

I see no reason why Disney would give Fox money for no reason. I think the Disney logo mixed with a Star Wars like fanfare, possibly composed by Williams, will work well enough.

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I just really hope that Abrams and Gia (if he does indeed score it) divorce themselves from Star Trek after this current movie. Abrams Trek was entertaining enough, but it just wasn't Trek, and I think the idea of Star Trek and Star Wars having the same creative forces behind them...and the same composer, is just kind of too creepy to contemplate. These really should be two completely separate, distinct worlds and visions. Again, Abrams Trek really wasn't Trek anyway...it was Star Wars with phasers.

I'm happy enough with the Abrams pick, but as a fan of both franchises, I just hope he concentrates solely Star Wars and lets someone else take over Trek.

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Personally, I think Giaccino is up for the task, but I don't think his style is appropriate. I do hope that if Williams doesn't do it, that JJ will realize this and get John Powell. But politics in Hollywood are an even stronger force than the Force these days.

Either way, they're gonna need to get Mark Hamill to a f#ckin' gym....

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Star Trek and Star Wars, these really should be two separate worlds.

Takei does not seem to agree... (if you count the Clone Wars series as Star Wars)

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As for film credits, that stuff doesn't matter anymore. A Lot of films don't even have anything at the beginning of them anymore (i.e. Nolan's Batman's, etc.)

That's a part of Nolan's style though. His films jump right in, or in the case of Batman we see the logo, and then we get hit with a hard ending and then BOOM - movie title.

Credit sequences always seemed like an aesthetic choice made by the director to me.

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Credit sequences always seemed like an aesthetic choice made by the director to me.

I think opening credit sequences are slowly going away... I miss those. Well-done opening credit sequences help prime me for the rest of the movie.

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Giacchino, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. J.J. made hay on the Super 8 commentaries that he wanted Michael to score the film with something that would evoke Williams' Close Encounters. While it was a decent effort, I didn't hear much of anything in S8 that even remotely resembled CE3K

I get your point. I sometimes get the feeling that Giacchino is too rooted in his Lost sound these days. Don't get me wrong - it's some of his best work, and works magnificently on the show. But most of his work since then has had a similar tone - reduced, barren orchestrations, short motifs and an overall "dry" sound. I still don't think this is Wallin's fault, I think it's mostly the way this music is orchestrated. Absolutely not without emotion, but hardly any of the sweeping stuff Star Wars is famous for.

Giacchino can do differently though. Ratatouille is wonderfully light and energetic, and I still believe the mix of techno and epic-ominous orchestra stuff in Alias is among his best work.

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- Giacchino, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. J.J. made hay on the Super 8 commentaries that he wanted Michael to score the film with something that would evoke Williams' Close Encounters. While it was a decent effort, I didn't hear much of anything in S8 that even remotely resembled CE3K.

- Uni

I dunno, I heard some stuff that sounded like "Ray's First Encounter"...

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Credit sequences always seemed like an aesthetic choice made by the director to me.

Me too. And a really good credit sequence—whether at the beginning or the end of a film—can do a great deal toward sealing the overall ambiance of a film. Particularly the well-designed and interesting end credit sequences in epic films, with good suites of the movie's score. It's like a celebration of what you've just experienced.

- Uni

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Giacchino, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. J.J. made hay on the Super 8 commentaries that he wanted Michael to score the film with something that would evoke Williams' Close Encounters. While it was a decent effort, I didn't hear much of anything in S8 that even remotely resembled CE3K

I get your point. I sometimes get the feeling that Giacchino is too rooted in his Lost sound these days. Don't get me wrong - it's some of his best work, and works magnificently on the show. But most of his work since then has had a similar tone - reduced, barren orchestrations, short motifs and an overall "dry" sound. I still don't think this is Wallin's fault, I think it's mostly the way this music is orchestrated. Absolutely not without emotion, but hardly any of the sweeping stuff Star Wars is famous for.

Giacchino can do differently though. Ratatouille is wonderfully light and energetic, and I still believe the mix of techno and epic-ominous orchestra stuff in Alias is among his best work.

Agreed. Good points raised here.

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Credit sequences always seemed like an aesthetic choice made by the director to me.

Me too. And a really good credit sequence—whether at the beginning or the end of a film—can do a great deal toward sealing the overall ambiance of a film. Particularly the well-designed and interesting end credit sequences in epic films, with good suites of the movie's score. It's like a celebration of what you've just experienced.

- Uni

Agreed. I'm a sucker for well cut credits. I typically prefer all the big names at the end. I don't particularly know why, it feels like a signature; you wouldn't sign a painting at the very top. Gives a perfect reflection time to absorb everything too.

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Yes. Fact is, we usually know going into a movie who's going to be in it. We don't need to be reminded ahead of the game. Getting the lineup at the end, along with the music, is the modern cinematic equivalent of a curtain call. (And never executed better than in Return of the King, perfectly summarized by "Into the West" and featuring beautiful sketches of each actor in character. Wonderful.)

- Uni

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If Abrams is as fond of classic Star Wars as he claims to be - and I do tend trust him on that - then I would be very surprised if he messed with the approach used in all of the existing films. Sure, it's different from his usual approach, but he has to know that he's entering a beloved universe with its own set of rules. Omitting the 20th Century Fox logo would be an understandable necessity, but the whole opening crawl thing is an absolute necessity, as far as I'm concerned. I'm inclined to think that Abrams gets it. At least, I hope so.

Regarding the score, I'm slowly warming up to the idea of Giacchino theoretically writing it...but Wallin MUST go. I'm sorry, I'm sure he's a great guy and all, but his sound is the polar opposite of the broad, symphonic sound heard in Williams' recordings. And unfortunately, it's a distinction Giacchino seems to actually like. This quote of his from last year concerns me somewhat:

There is a tendency to put a lot of reverberation on film scores, and it tends to feel like it's in a cathedral. It's massive, and you lose the identity of the different instruments that are going on in there. On a Dan Wallin score, you can hear every instrument that's playing.

[source]

The thing is, reverb and room sound don't preclude hearing the individual instruments and sections. It doesn't have to sound like it's in a cathedral - it just shouldn't sound like it was recorded in your garage, you know? It's purely a personal taste thing, and Giacchino of course has every right to pick his own approach, but I don't think Wallin's sound is at all right for the Star Wars universe.

Then again, at the end of that article, Wallin mentioned wanting to retire in maybe two years or so...and this was January of '12, so who knows...

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Board of Disney suits: "Hey kid, do to Star Wars what you did to Star Trek and we will pay you handsomely."

Kid with curly hair and glasses: "Yes, my masters."

Board of Disney suits: "Ho, there's no need for kneeling down, kid."

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And now it's confirmed!

http://collider.com/...ms-star-wars-7/

George Lucas:

“I’ve consistently been impressed with J.J. as a filmmaker and storyteller. He’s an ideal choice to direct the new Star Wars film and the legacy couldn’t be in better hands.”

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And now it's confirmed!

http://collider.com/...ms-star-wars-7/

George Lucas:

“I’ve consistently been impressed with J.J. as a filmmaker and storyteller. He’s an ideal choice to direct the new Star Wars film and the legacy couldn’t be in better hands.”

This is great, but I don't know about that Lucas quote....I'm not sure I ever heard Lucas mention JJ Abrams name, and I'm not even sure Lucas likes the types of films Abrams make. My instinct tells me that George is a figurehead at this moment, is being hands off, and has to one degree or another checked out of the project. This quote sounds more like something Spielberg told him and George is repeating.

If George were really intimately involved with this the last thing he'd do is choose a director with his own vision, especially with one different from his own. And he'd certainly never, ever, pick a Star Wars fan.

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It's from the press release from a few hours ago.

But don't you know that, each time George Lucas appears in media today, he is a full CGI hologram, programmed by Disney execs to say just nice things about everything?

Anyway, we should keep an eye on Giacchino's twitter account these days, as he has a tendency to give away a few secrets once in a while.

You must read between the lines, of course.

https://twitter.com/m_giacchino

post-20071-0-72098100-1359195109_thumb.j

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Abrams has his own vision?

Sure, such that it is.

Isn't he just a child of the Lucas and Spielberg generation?

Yes. That makes him uniquely qualified. In any event, every director is influenced by the people he grew up watching.

I think Abrams is about the safest choice Disney could make.

Agreed.

Snyder, Aronofsky ... now that would be asking for trouble.

They'd be asking for trouble to take it. Everyone besides Lucas who ever directed a Star Wars movie is dead.

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One might argue that Dune is a more interesting sci-fi film, then ROTJ though.

I mean Dune is a failure, but a fascinating one.

Indeed.

Unlike Jedi, which was more or less a mundane failure.

It's from the press release from a few hours ago.

Oh, I believe the "quote" is accurate. I just think they could have pretty much just inserted any director's name in there for George to give the obligatory praise to. Or put his own name on praise someone else wrote, more likely. Any director with a pulse who can bring it in on budget would be "good enough" for George. And the pulse is optional.

But don't you know that, each time George Lucas appears in media today, he is a full CGI hologram, programmed by Disney execs to say just nice things about everything?

I didn't know that, but I've always suspected. Thank you.

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So is it official then? Will this new trilogy be the saviour of JWFan? Is there the belief among us that there's going to be enough about the new movies and their scores to sustain say another five to ten years of JWfan anticipation, hype and banter?

Or at this point is the proposed sustenance still reliant upon whether John is involved or not? If he isn't, are people still keen and even eager to hear his already enormously well-served music adapted yet again by some new composer? Do the original themes still resonate enough to hold your interest in new versions of them?

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So is it official then? Will this new trilogy be the saviour of JWFan? Is there the belief among us that there's going to be enough about the new movies and their scores to sustain say another five to ten years of JWfan anticipation, hype and banter?

Or at this point is the proposed sustenance still reliant upon whether John is involved or not? If he isn't, are people still keen and even eager to hear his already enormously well-served music adapted yet again by some new composer? Do the original themes still resonate enough to hold your interest in new versions of them?

I think the new films were generate an incredible of excitement and talk in geekdom, including here.

How deep the excitement is here will partially depend, of course, on whether JW scores them. He won't. I can possibly see him being a "consultant", that would more or less be an honorific as a sign of respect.

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Isn't he just a child of the Lucas and Spielberg generation?

Yes. That makes him uniquely qualified. In any event, every director is influenced by the people he grew up watching.

Didn't you first say that as a director Abrams is too different from Lucas and Spielberg? My 'problem' is that I feel he's too much of the same school. That's why I said he's a child of the Spielberg/Lucas generation. The choice is too safe to be intriguing. So safe it's boring. I know, it should be safe, it's Star Wars! You can't experiment with something like Star Wars but I'm merely stating my mind. Personally, and I know I'm in the minority, I would like to see something different. You have to remember, I'm all Star Warsed out.

Alex

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Didn't you first say that as a director Abrams is too different from Lucas and Spielberg?

No. Quite the opposite.

My 'problem' is that I feel he's too much of the same school. That's why I said he's a child of the Spielberg/Lucas generation. The choice is too safe to be intriguing. So safe it's boring. I know, it should be safe, it's Star Wars! You can't experiment with something like Star Wars but I'm merely stating my mind. Personally, and I know I'm in the minority, I would like to see something different. You have to remember, I'm all Star Warsed out.

Alex

Well, I didn't know you were sick of Star Wars. :) And I'm by no means a huge Abrams fan. I've seen his movies, and I enjoyed them all well enough. But I haven't seen a single episode of one of his TV shows. I think he's a good enough director, and I believe he understands Star Wars. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure I see what everyone thinks is so special about him.

But I like the pick because it's safe. And you can't blame them for making a safe pick...there's too much riding on this movie. Besides, Star Wars isn't art house theatre, and people will go see the new movies, in large part, because they want to return to that universe. That's a big reason I believe The Hobbit movie has performed so well. People just want to go back there. You cant underestimate the pull of nostalgia. That doesn't mean it shouldn't, or can't, be a great film. But it should be Star Wars.

And frankly I don't want a director who's going to mess around with the Star Wars universe. I thought Abram's Star Trek was a pretty good movie, but it wasn't a good Star Trek movie, because he really wanted to make Star Wars. I just want someone who will make a good Star Wars movie.

Seeing something good would be seeing something different.

(Y) Indeed.

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In my opinion, Disney is aiming to recapture the magic of the original trilogy.

I don't think there is anyone more capable of doing that than J.J. Abrams.

The man made Super 8. He understand what made the early Spielberg/Lucas films work.

Yes, I'm excited about this.

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