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2012 Oscar Discussion Thread (Tintin and War Horse nominated for Best Original Score!)


Romão

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Actually, E.T.'s flying theme works wonders in a Munich sex scene.

Karol

Over the moon my friend, over the moon.
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I really don't get the hatred for Reznor on this board.

Me neither. It's very annoying.

http://music-mix.ew....o/?iid=rcfooter

I don't think that those who don't hate Reznor go to that extreme.

I really don't get the hatred for Reznor on this board.

But anyway, it's nice to see that unlike Spielberg, Williams still hasn't lost the Academy's respect. Any note he puts to paper gets nominated.

He can't write good film music. In my case, it's not even that I don't like ambient/synth stuff, but Reznor can't even write good ambient scores. At least he hasn't in the two movies he's done so far.

That's the problem, the guy can't write good film music. Personal tastes aside, he's simply not a good composer. I mean, I've had a really hard time connecting emotionally to Giacchino's scores. For some reason the guy's music just doesn't do it for me, but I will never say that he can't write music.

I can't say the same about Reznor. He may be great with NIN, but writing music for movies, he fails.

Well, I'm not going to defend the guy because that would be futile and I'm only a casual fan of The Social Network. But at least the man gives you something to hate. Not droning, MV stuff, but something fresh and original that usually fits the movie quite well. Dragon Tattoo is pretty much unlistenable on its own but it works very, very well in the movie so, in my opinion, that's good film scoring.

And at least it wasn't a rehash of The Social Network. It is driven by a desire of reinvention.

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Hi Everyone,

Just bursting to post something. I honestly believe 'War Horse' was JW's greatest score since Schindler's List, if you just look at the way it works in the film it is text book. Plus technically it is head and shoulders above most scores. For thoses thinking I am bias well personally I was a little dissapointed in Tin Tin, for the sake of JW's now record breaking nomination success I am thrilled it got a nod.

I have been listening to film scores since I was 6 years old, I have served as a session musician, co-orchestrator and both symphony and brass only conductor - I say that I think it will be a travasty if (and I'm sure it will) The Artist wins. I tried so hard to REALLY love the Artist score and the film for that matter but in the end I found it barely above average, its just too manufactured for me plus it hurts when a new composer barely on the scene takes an award that true great long established composers have missed out on. Last year I felt physically sick when Trent Raznor STOLE the award from Alexander Desplat and alas I think this year I will feel the same. I say it again 'War Horse' should win.

Sorry to rant but I ADORE this forum and I think JWFAN for overall information is easily amoung the best websites in internet history.

Thanks to everyone who contributes, especially Jason.

Ad Moore (UK)

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Oh apologise for misspelling of Reznor, I meant no dis-respect I just was getting a little excited when I was typing.

I have just remember another example of a year that a new to the scene film composer won, remember when John Corigliano won for The Red Violin beating of Williams and Newman.

Thanks again guys.

Ad

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I really don't get the hatred for Reznor on this board.

Me neither. It's very annoying.

http://music-mix.ew....o/?iid=rcfooter

I agree 100% with that guy. I'd rather have TATOO than most of the others.

So my ideal list for 2011 would be:

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATOO (Reznor/Ross)

DRIVE (Martinez)

HANNA (The Chemical Brothers)

JANE EYRE (Marianelli)

WAR HORSE (Williams)

Yes, I actually don't think TINTIN was deserving, but the Williams fan in me is always glad for all the nominations the master gets.

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Well, I'm not going to defend the guy because that would be futile and I'm only a casual fan of The Social Network. But at least the man gives you something to hate. Not droning, MV stuff, but something fresh and original that usually fits the movie quite well. Dragon Tattoo is pretty much unlistenable on its own but it works very, very well in the movie so, in my opinion, that's good film scoring.

And at least it wasn't a rehash of The Social Network. It is driven by a desire of reinvention.

I gave another listen to The Social Network because of this thread, and while I am also only a casual fan of the score, I was surprised by how immediately I was put back into the film by the music. Some nice and - yes - memorable ideas in there, so a pretty successful effort, as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking forward to watching/hearing The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

That said, the writer of that EW article is kind of a twit.

I have just remember another example of a year that a new to the scene film composer won, remember when John Corigliano won for The Red Violin beating of Williams and Newman.

Just want to clarify that The Red Violin was actually John Corigliano's fourth film score, his first being Altered States in 1980. And he's certainly no rookie, being only six years younger than John Williams and composing professionally for about as long as our beloved maestro. One of the great champions of the modern concert world :)

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I agree 100% with that guy.

So you agree with this?

"The big problem there is Williams, whose scores are so formulaic and interchangeable that you could literally assign any of them to any one of Steven Spielberg’s movies. In the case of War Horse, the score actually hurts the movie, as I don’t think it would be as nakedly, emotionally manipulative were it not for Williams’ heavy-handedness. In a just world, neither of the Williams scores would have gotten a nod."

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I posted this article earlier in this thread and no one seemed to have noticed :P

Its fine if he likes Reznor, but his bashing of Williams is complete bullocks. How is Williams' music interchangeable?! Is Tintin ideal for Schindler's List? War Horse for Raiders?! Ridiculous....

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The number of nominations for War Horse is just right. Most of the technical nominations and a best picture nomination to top it off.

I find it ridiculous however, that Tintin was not nominated for Best Animated Feature. It's BEST animated feature not MOST animated feature. And if I recall correctly, Rango used something similar to Motion-Capture.

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The question is, what separates animated films from live-action? Is it something to do with the process? Or is it just the funny looking final product? If the former, then motion-capture could probably be considered live action. If the latter, then motion-capture should be animation.

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How do they determine the Best Director award? I mean technically the director only instructs other people what to do, how do they know what influence he/she had on the rest of the cast/crew? I would think Best Director would have the same nominees as Best Picture.

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I posted this article earlier in this thread and no one seemed to have noticed :P

I did ;)

YAY :D

You're the cool one! ;)

I would argue that if Tintin doesn't qualify as an animated movie, it deserves a cinematography nomination.

Agreed. Tintin received little to no recognition at the Academy Awards. First of all, I think it should qualify as an animated film but I understand the controversy imposed by motion capture. But the final medium is still intended as an animated feature. Best Visual Effects or Cinemtography should have given a spot up for Tintin.

Its a shame, because that really was one of the more enjoyable films of the year. Loved every minute of that adventure.

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I really don't get the hatred for Reznor on this board.

Me neither. It's very annoying.

http://music-mix.ew....o/?iid=rcfooter

I agree 100% with that guy. I'd rather have TATOO than most of the others.

So my ideal list for 2011 would be:

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATOO (Reznor/Ross)

DRIVE (Martinez)

HANNA (The Chemical Brothers)

JANE EYRE (Marianelli)

WAR HORSE (Williams)

Yes, I actually don't think TINTIN was deserving, but the Williams fan in me is always glad for all the nominations the master gets.

Out blasphemer out! :stick:
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I agree 100% with that guy.

So you agree with this?

"The big problem there is Williams, whose scores are so formulaic and interchangeable that you could literally assign any of them to any one of Steven Spielberg’s movies. In the case of War Horse, the score actually hurts the movie, as I don’t think it would be as nakedly, emotionally manipulative were it not for Williams’ heavy-handedness. In a just world, neither of the Williams scores would have gotten a nod."

Well, no, obviously not that part. Blanket statements like that are always silly, even though he is obviously free to dislike Williams or Spielberg or whatever.

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I agree 100% with that guy.

So you agree with this?

"The big problem there is Williams, whose scores are so formulaic and interchangeable that you could literally assign any of them to any one of Steven Spielberg’s movies. In the case of War Horse, the score actually hurts the movie, as I don’t think it would be as nakedly, emotionally manipulative were it not for Williams’ heavy-handedness. In a just world, neither of the Williams scores would have gotten a nod."

Well, no, obviously not that part. Blanket statements like that are always silly, even though he is obviously free to dislike Williams or Spielberg or whatever.

Hmm, a few weeks ago, we did a quiz where one person has to hum a tune while the other people have to name the tune. They asked me if I could do my Williams repertoire (you know, his heroic fanfares and big themes) but to them it was very confusing. Superman, Raiders, E.T., Star Wars ... For us it's no problem but to the 'ordinary man' the themes are kinda sounding the same.

Alex

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I agree 100% with that guy.

So you agree with this?

"The big problem there is Williams, whose scores are so formulaic and interchangeable that you could literally assign any of them to any one of Steven Spielberg’s movies. In the case of War Horse, the score actually hurts the movie, as I don’t think it would be as nakedly, emotionally manipulative were it not for Williams’ heavy-handedness. In a just world, neither of the Williams scores would have gotten a nod."

Well, no, obviously not that part. Blanket statements like that are always silly, even though he is obviously free to dislike Williams or Spielberg or whatever.

Hmm, a few weeks ago, we did a quiz where one person has to hum a tune while the other people have to name the tune. They asked me if I could do my Williams repertoire (you know, his heroic fanfares and big themes) but to them it was very confusing. Superman, Raiders, E.T., Star Wars ... For us it's no problem but to the 'ordinary man' the themes are kinda sounding the same.

Alex

I would love to hear the "ordinary man" whistle Social Network or Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. It's all the same sound designy drone. ;)
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I just listened to the soundtrack of "TinkerTailor soldier spy" and i found it quite good and very sophisticated.

i haven't seen the film but from the trailer it reminded me somehow of Munich and considering that (and that it has lots of mystery music from what I understand from the soundtrack), I find the score much better than Munich in the mystery-music part..

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I would love to hear the "ordinary man" whistle Social Network or Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. It's all the same sound designy drone. ;)

Last time I checked, the quality of a film score wasn't measured by whether or not you could whistle the themes....

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I would love to hear the "ordinary man" whistle Social Network or Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. It's all the same sound designy drone. ;)

Last time I checked, the quality of a film score wasn't measured by whether or not you could whistle the themes....

Just as a side note, the Academy's rules for the Best Score award include this:

"The work’s eligibility shall be evaluated on its effectiveness, craftsmanship, creative substance and relevance to the dramatic whole."

It's all subjective, but that's a big one.

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Sorry if this is irrelevant to the thread (although it IS Oscar talk, isn't it?). but does anyone know if the Oscars will be broadcasted live online somewhere?

I have never seen them online. Only the Globes.

The thing I'm always doing is waiting for half a day for TVrips to appear, and I always try to keep away during that time from the internet, TV, news etc. so that I will not know the results.

But believe me it's very difficult..

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I would love to hear the "ordinary man" whistle Social Network or Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. It's all the same sound designy drone. ;)

Last time I checked, the quality of a film score wasn't measured by whether or not you could whistle the themes....

Just as a side note, the Academy's rules for the Best Score award include this:

"The work’s eligibility shall be evaluated on its effectiveness, craftsmanship, creative substance and relevance to the dramatic whole."

It's all subjective, but that's a big one.

It's also very vague, but it allows for multiple interpretations.

Some films would suffer immensely from a socalled 'hummable score', however you define that. Remember, film composers don't create autonomous albums, they create music for whatever the film calls for. If it works alone (especially after re-arrangement), great, but it's just a bonus.

Something like Goldsmith's ALIEN isn't exactly there to provide a 'whistling' function!

I often think people need to separate between what they like to listen to on CD and how or what the music does in the film. If you like to listen to scores with hummable themes, that's great, but it's absurd to apply it some sort of general standard for what constitutes 'a good film music approach'.

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I listened to Munich only once, and was hardly able to keep my focus on it. Such a non-event of a score.

Munich was a fantastic score! Loved every minute of that haunting music. It truly shows off Williams' versatility.

And while Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy was intriguing at most (a 3 star score in my opinion), it is by far nowhere close to Munich in my opinion.

Are we comparing Reznor/Ross to Goldsmith now?

And for the record, I think Dragon Tattoo adds neither to the film nor is it listenable on CD.

Haven't watched Dragon Tattoo yet, but I remember thinking that TSN intentionally didn't have a score when I first watched it (with the exception of the rowing scene ofc). Only with Reznor's first nomination did I come to realize that there was an actual score. You can hardly hear it in film. The film would have been fine without it.

- KK

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Are we comparing Reznor/Ross to Goldsmith now?

No -- just talking about 'texture'-based scores in general. They aren't any less of a score just because they're based on textures instead of striking melodies. It all depends on how they work in the movie, and what the movie calls for.

Furthermore, and for my own part, I really enjoy to listen to those types of scores away from the movie too, just as much as I do theme-based ones.

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Haven't watched Dragon Tattoo yet, but I remember thinking that TSN intentionally didn't have a score when I first watched it (with the exception of the rowing scene ofc). Only with Reznor's first nomination did I come to realize that there was an actual score. You can hardly hear it in film. The film would have been fine without it.

- KK

Then you obviously weren't paying very close attention, or maybe have hearing problems? The Social Network is driven by its score. Without it, the film would fall apart.

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All I remember from the film's score seeing it in the theater was that piano bit that played a bunch of times

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I kinda enjoyed the Social Network score. I wouldn't really want to listen to it on its own, but it's a very effective score and does give the movie its own personality.

For more ambient based scores, I was really intrigued by There Will Be Blood, although I don't really know what was written spefically for the movie

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For more ambient based scores, I was really intrigued by There Will Be Blood, although I don't really know what was written spefically for the movie

Most of it.

Karol

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And for the record, I think Dragon Tattoo adds neither to the film nor is it listenable on CD.

I mostly agree with you. But the last 10 minutes of the film, the score worked beautifully. It's like Reznor and Ross found an interesting idea for the score, but didn't bother to expand it further and earlier on in the movie. That's the thing that bugs me about Fincher's last two movies: he goes for something more textural and less interesting. Not to say minimalism isn't the wrong approach, but so many composers could've done it a whole lot better and with more sophistication. Jonathan Broxton nailed my feelings when he reviewed the GWTDT score.

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