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So Ridley Scott is directing an Alien prequel... (The official Prometheus Thread)


crocodile

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The script for Alien is nothing special.

Agreed. That film is ALL about execution, not story, which is as thin as it comes ('people flee from monster in dark corridors'). As an artistic statement, however, it's very profound. Some audiovisual exploration of Freudian themes barely rivalled before or since.

Sorry, but dialogue is script too. And the dialogue of Alien was very good. If the dialogue wasn't good then it would have stood in the way of the film becoming a classic. It's partly thanks to the dialogue that the film displays a rare naturalistic Ken loach like interaction between the characters, which made them like you and me. I fear that with Prometheus, the dialogue is precisely what is hurting the film.

Alex

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Seems like a lot of you don't know that Morricone essentially composed a symphony that was chopped and edited to fit the film. He didn't compose to picture. I personally love the score, the organ is probably the most difficult instrument to utilize in music.

Morricone and Hollywood just don't mesh, save for off-beaters like U-TURN (which is brilliant).

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He's done plenty of brilliant American scores.

The Mission, A Time Of Destiny, The Untouchables, The Thing, Days Of Heaven, Frantic, Lolita, Hamlet, Casualties Of War...

If by Hollywood you meant more big budget stuff, well then yes.

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The script for Alien is nothing special.

Agreed. That film is ALL about execution, not story, which is as thin as it comes ('people flee from monster in dark corridors'). As an artistic statement, however, it's very profound. Some audiovisual exploration of Freudian themes barely rivalled before or since.

Sorry, but dialogue is script too. And the dialogue of Alien was very good. If the dialogue wasn't good then it would have stood in the way of the film becoming a classic. It's partly thanks to the dialogue that the film displays a rare naturalistic Ken loach like interaction between the characters, which made them like you and me. I fear that with Prometheus, the dialogue is precisely what is hurting the film.

Alex

Agree so much with Alex right now... The script of Alien is superb.

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It is fine, but in the hands of someone else it could have been just a very average film.

The script is not the reason Alien is a great film.

As with so many classic films, excellence on various fundamental levels: directing, screenplay, acting, editing, score, ... Alien being a good example. It was one of those fortunate productions where all departments delivered greatness.

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Yes, it's part of the reason. Let's not forget that for a sci-fi movie they were some very unusual elements in Alien: a strong female heroine in a genre dominated by men. When I saw the film in 1979, my money was on captain Dallas. The ordinary blue collar setting on board of a spaceship, ...

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Yes, it's part of the reason.

Indeed. When I was very young and saw Alien for the first time it stood head and shoulders above any other sci-fi/horror I'd seen. Why? Because it felt REAL. Serious. This level of realism was mostly achieved by the character interactions and the dialogue.

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It's a good story anyway.

Thor, the reason people were impressed and remember Alien is because of the script. You know, the opening, the encounter of the eggs, the diner scene, when Ash tries to choke Ripley, the escape in the small ship only to find the creature there, when they find the facehugger dead, when Ripley doesn't want Kane in, when they reactivate Ash's head, Ripley looking for the cat, and more... and the order of all the events in a perfect succesion making the situation more and more tense... You can have all the awesome "execution" you want, but without all that, the film wouldn't be good or memorable.

I disagree.

I think the primary effect of ALIEN is on a purely subconscious level, as it taps into some primary human fears mirrored in Freudian imagery (Giger's set design) -- set within a very realistic style (esp. the acting). The script -- in the meaning of story -- is secondary, I think.

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Surely, take out all the classic moments laid out in the script, see how scared people are...

If they hadn't started from it, the film would have gone nowhere. Of course, they could have ruined the script later, but I'm glad they didn't and that the film came out strong on all fronts.

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There is no great film that did not start with a great script. Period.

I don't think that's the best way to look at it. It's like saying there is no great cookie that did not start with a great recipe.

You can't really judge the success of a script or cookie recipe without its final film or cookie. And you can't discount how much influence execution has on the script or recipe. A master baker can improvise on the spot to make a great cookie while more or less following a recipe. Similarly I think most people would be shocked how much a script changes daily during production. It can start as crap and end as a great script because the actors, directors, post production guys, editors said..."well wait, this isn't working at all" swallow their pride and try again.

At that point I'd hardly call it "starting with a great script."

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Surely, take out all the classic moments laid out in the script, see how scared people are...

If they hadn't started from it, the film would have gone nowhere. Of course, they could have ruined the script later, but I'm glad they didn't and that the film came out strong on all fronts.

The script is only one out of many ways to approach a film. For many films, script is really secondary to other concerns. ALIEN is one of those films. It operates on whole other levels.

ALIEN is more than just horror. It's more than just science fiction. It's more than just storytelling. It's a STATEMENT and a piece of audiovisual art (with all that entails).

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Surely, take out all the classic moments laid out in the script, see how scared people are...

If they hadn't started from it, the film would have gone nowhere. Of course, they could have ruined the script later, but I'm glad they didn't and that the film came out strong on all fronts.

The script is only one out of many ways to approach a film. For many films, script is really secondary to other concerns. ALIEN is one of those films. It operates on whole other levels.

ALIEN is more than just horror. It's more than just science fiction. It's more than just storytelling. It's a STATEMENT and a piece of audiovisual art (with all that entails).

Emotional language. It doesn't make you right. You're trying to pass of as the fan, I guess. Of the two of us, who has the Alien avatar? ;)

The script is not secondary in Alien, it established the brilliant chain of events that make it happen. When they can't take the thing out of Kane's face, are you concerned about "whole other levels"? Isn't that situation a great idea? Doesn't that make the film great? I'm sorry, I don't understand how someone can say that the script is secondary in Alien.

Is Alien a "statement" about something or not? I'd take that statement as "nothing can become secondary."

Like in that dialogue in Ratatouille when Remy listed all that was very important.

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Emotional language. It doesn't make you right. You're trying to pass of as the fan, I guess. Of the two of us, who has the Alien avatar? ;)

Well, if you wanna go down that road...

ALIEN is probably my alltime favourite movie. I've seen it maybe 30 times. TV, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, cinema, you name it. I've written many articles on it and studied it in my master thesis. It's one of the primary reasons for my film interest and choice of profession. I've lived and breathed it for 25 years.

So yeah, I doubt I'm any less of a fan than you.

Here's an article I wrote a while back that touches on some of these issues:

http://montages.no/2009/10/alien-1979/

It's in Norwegian, but Google Translate might allow you to get the gist of it.

As Scott himself said: ”To a large extent, Alien’s environment was a statement. And, I think, a great piece of art work”.

Storytelling (script) is a necessary component, but far from the most important. If it were, it wouldn't have been the classic it is today.

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Alien is a practically perfect film. Like, everything. The way Parker flips the switch and says "we gotta reroute all of these ducts", the thing Ash does with his eyes when Ripley wants to have a talk, Lambert's messed up scream over the intercom when the Alien has its way with her, the emergency destruct voice, right down to those food containers that IKEA ripped off. It's a complete and total classic and clearly a GREAT film. Prometheus is sounding like a summer flick and yet another unworthy reboot, remake, sequel/prequel/whateverquel to a classic from a bygone era.

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<p>

Emotional language. It doesn't make you right. You're trying to pass of as the fan, I guess. Of the two of us, who has the Alien avatar? ;)

Well, if you wanna go down that road...

ALIEN is probably my alltime favourite movie. I've seen it maybe 30 times. TV, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, cinema, you name it. I've written many articles on it and studied it in my master thesis. It's one of the primary reasons for my film interest a

I didn't go for that road, I wrote that to avoid that road, because you were starting to go down there. That's why I put the smilie. There's an actual response later in the message. That you conveniently ignored. ;)

Maybe it was too subtle of a joke.

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<p>

Emotional language. It doesn't make you right. You're trying to pass of as the fan, I guess. Of the two of us, who has the Alien avatar? ;)

Well, if you wanna go down that road...

ALIEN is probably my alltime favourite movie. I've seen it maybe 30 times. TV, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, cinema, you name it. I've written many articles on it and studied it in my master thesis. It's one of the primary reasons for my film interest and choice of profession. I've lived and breathed it for 25 years.

So yeah, I doubt I'm any less of a fan than you.

Here's an article I wrote a while back that touches on some of these issues:

http://montages.no/2009/10/alien-1979/

It's in Norwegian, but Google Translate might allow you to get the gist of it.

As Scott himself said: ”To a large extent, Alien’s environment was a statement. And, I think, a great piece of art work”.

And yet here you are saying you loved the rubbish Prometheus.

Seems like all that study and work was for nothing. All that Alien fandom, years of admiration and devotion - it was just a big waste of time.

:P

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Amazingly, I have room for both movies in my preference. How about that?

I didn't go for that road, I wrote that to avoid that road, because you were starting to go down there. That's why I put the smilie. There's an actual response later in the message. That you conveniently ignored. ;)

Maybe it was too subtle of a joke.

Sorry if I missed a joke. I often feel I'm far too serious-minded to fit properly in here. :)

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Amazingly, I have room for both movies in my preference. How about that?

That's a theoretical impossibility. If that were to happen, heaven forbid, thered be a paradox on our very doorstep. You want to punch a hole in the space time continuum do you? You want to bring about the doom of mankind?

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Amazingly, I have room for both movies in my preference. How about that?

That's a theoretical impossibility. If that were to happen, heaven forbid, thered be a paradox on our very doorstep. You want to punch a hole in the space time continuum do you? You want to bring about the doom of mankind?

:flameblob:

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Amazingly, I have room for both movies in my preference. How about that?

I didn't go for that road, I wrote that to avoid that road, because you were starting to go down there. That's why I put the smilie. There's an actual response later in the message. That you conveniently ignored. ;)

Maybe it was too subtle of a joke.

Sorry if I missed a joke. I often feel I'm far too serious-minded to fit properly in here. :)

Yet you stick around anyway....

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Storytelling (script) is a necessary component, but far from the most important. If it were, it wouldn't have been the classic it is today.

I too believe that "the design is the statement' in Ridley's (first) films but their dialogue is not only a part of the overall aesthetic, it also enhances it. In Alien, the visual aesthetics are completed and even improved by the aural aesthetics. It's a part of the tone, it's part of the atmosphere. It helps you to believe what you are seeing. Like The Duellists or Blade Runner, Alien is not dialogue driven but the dialogue is just as important as the design and the atmosphere. With sloppy, poor or bad dialogue, there would be no classic(s).

Alex

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Yet you stick around anyway....

I do, and I often ask myself why. Must be the fact that it's the only John Williams board around, and also a handful of people with whom I get along with really well.

Storytelling (script) is a necessary component, but far from the most important. If it were, it wouldn't have been the classic it is today.

I too believe that "the design is the statement' in Ridley's (first) films but their dialogue is not only a part of the overall aesthetic, it also enhances it. In Alien, the visual aesthetics are completed and even improved by the aural aesthetics. It's a part of the tone, it's part of the atmosphere. It helps you to believe what you are seeing. Like The Duellists or Blade Runner, Alien is not dialogue driven but the dialogue is just as important as the design and the atmosphere. With sloppy, poor or bad dialogue, there would be no classic(s).

Alex

I agree, but I would extend it beyond the dialogue and into the acting performances themselves; the ensemble performances molded in a very realistic style. That's an ESSENTIAL component if you're going to buy into the arty ideas and the visceral experience of the production design.

The Antonioni-like breakfast scene is a good example -- a kind of distanced, sociological lens which views the natural interaction between the crew members.

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That's not how you are suppose to interpret it, Quint. I thought you were smarter than that. It's an old movie. It's based on reviews that they could find about it, which in the case of Enter The Dragon is about thirty. If they had more reviews, like with contemporary movies, the result could've been a little bit different. Don't take it too literal, don't condemn it because one movie has a few percentages more than the other. It merely meant to give you a global view on what movie critics in general think about a certain picture.

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Arrrrgggh! Do I really have to put smilies at the end of my piss-take posts?! I'm not gonna read that block of text with any sort of serious head, Alex - it looks like it's some sort of stodgy-serious response to my idle nonsense. Stop doing impressions of Wojo! There's a time and a place for that and this ain't it. And you are in NO position to be accusing me of reading things too literally!

Lee - who friggin' loves Enter the Dragon.

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Stop doing impressions of Wojo!

Yes, please, they're not good impressions.

Besides, there was that one time I wrote a really long post and Quint actually read it and picked out one sentence that was message board smackdown gold®. I don't remember what it was, or when, but it did happen. Once.

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Arrrrgggh! Do I really have to put smilies at the end of my piss-take posts?! I'm not gonna read that block of text with any sort of serious head, Alex - it looks like it's some sort of stodgy-serious response to my idle nonsense. Stop doing impressions of Wojo! There's a time and a place for that and this ain't it. And you are in NO position to be accusing me of reading things to literally!

Lee - who friggin' loves Enter the Dragon.

Yes, please use smilies! There was no way I could've known that you were joking. Today I read a very serious post of someone who said Prometheus is not the prequel to Alien because it takes place on a different planet than the one in Alien. He didn't use smilies so I told him his urgument didn't make sense. Then he said that I should watch the movie to understand it. He even adds that it's not a prequel because Scott has said so. Again, no smilies. I mean, I have no problem with Prometheus not being a prequel but not for the arguments he brought on.

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Arrrrgggh! Do I really have to put smilies at the end of my piss-take posts?! I'm not gonna read that block of text with any sort of serious head, Alex - it looks like it's some sort of stodgy-serious response to my idle nonsense. Stop doing impressions of Wojo! There's a time and a place for that and this ain't it. And you are in NO position to be accusing me of reading things to literally!

Lee - who friggin' loves Enter the Dragon.

Yes, please use smilies! There was no way I could've known that you were joking. Today I read a very serious post of someone who said Prometheus is not the prequel to Alien because it takes place on a different planet than the one in Alien. He didn't use smilies so I told him his urgument didn't make sense. Then he said that I should watch the movie to understand it. He even adds that it's not a prequel because Scott has said so. Again, no smilies. I mean, I have no problem with Prometheus not being a prequel but not for the arguments he brought on.

Jeez, all this time wasted speculating about a shite movie you have yet to see. You're gonna hate it, Alex. Mark by words - it's the surest thing there's ever been during my time on JWFan. I know this because I know how awful it is.

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