GAME OF THRONES

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

I justify Brienne running into Hot Pie because there aren't a lot of roads and towns out in the boonies between major cities, and that was as good a place as any to find him.

Considering how many named characters there actually are in the books, and that some settlements along the road are more or less deserted since the war, it doesn't seem such a stretch that characters passing there might meet someone who took up residence in the area.

Jackson's LotR gets the scale of land traversed much more tangibly across to the viewer imo.

More? Yes. Much more? Perhaps. But he still was quick to sacrifice distance for tightened plot lines (though not as quick as he was to sacrifice time spans).

[Jay 37,346]

Oberyn's brother cast for season 5

http://shrturl.co/FoRup

[Incanus 5,714]

I justify Brienne running into Hot Pie because there aren't a lot of roads and towns out in the boonies between major cities, and that was as good a place as any to find him.

Considering how many named characters there actually are in the books, and that some settlements along the road are more or less deserted since the war, it doesn't seem such a stretch that characters passing there might meet someone who took up residence in the area.

Jackson's LotR gets the scale of land traversed much more tangibly across to the viewer imo.

More? Yes. Much more? Perhaps. But he still was quick to sacrifice distance for tightened plot lines (though not as quick as he was to sacrifice time spans).

Jackson does compress Middle Earth a bit but on the whole the distances come across better, perhaps because of the whole story revolving around a journey.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Oberyn's brother cast for season 5

http://shrturl.co/FoRup

Looks the part.

[KK 3,307]

I justify Brienne running into Hot Pie because there aren't a lot of roads and towns out in the boonies between major cities, and that was as good a place as any to find him.

Considering how many named characters there actually are in the books, and that some settlements along the road are more or less deserted since the war, it doesn't seem such a stretch that characters passing there might meet someone who took up residence in the area.

Jackson's LotR gets the scale of land traversed much more tangibly across to the viewer imo.

More? Yes. Much more? Perhaps. But he still was quick to sacrifice distance for tightened plot lines (though not as quick as he was to sacrifice time spans).

Jackson does compress Middle Earth a bit but on the whole the distances come across better, perhaps because of the whole story revolving around a journey.

That and all the NZ vista walkng montages

[Incanus 5,714]

I justify Brienne running into Hot Pie because there aren't a lot of roads and towns out in the boonies between major cities, and that was as good a place as any to find him.

Considering how many named characters there actually are in the books, and that some settlements along the road are more or less deserted since the war, it doesn't seem such a stretch that characters passing there might meet someone who took up residence in the area.

Jackson's LotR gets the scale of land traversed much more tangibly across to the viewer imo.

More? Yes. Much more? Perhaps. But he still was quick to sacrifice distance for tightened plot lines (though not as quick as he was to sacrifice time spans).

Jackson does compress Middle Earth a bit but on the whole the distances come across better, perhaps because of the whole story revolving around a journey.

That and all the NZ vista walkng montages

Well obviously.

[KK 3,307]

I'll raise you a better one:

Vangelis at his finest....

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Vangelis at his finest....

What the Hobbit...

[Quintus 5,399]

LMAO

[Olivier 5]

I'll read your messages and may reply to some, but I'll write a few words about the latest episode first...

Dammit, Daenerys has exiled Jorah. Would she have forgiven him had he confessed and explained sooner, spontaneously?

The Hound & Arya: The Hound's reaction to the news and Arya's laughter.

I hope they don't just turn around.

Missandei: "I am glad you saw me."

Grey Worm: "So am I."

Thousands of male viewers around the world: "So are we!!!"

Really good scenes with Sansa.

The Viper and the Mountain: great scene!

Damn,

Oberyn had him, but this very intelligent man got tricked by the stupid brute!

He should have heeded Rathe's advice to young Holmes: "control your emotions or they will be your downfall."

Awesome (horrible) death for Oberyn.

The fact they both die (apparently; I don't think The Mountain survives; maybe, though) and that Oberyn struck the fatal blow first is naturally overlooked by Tywin; and anyway, Oberyn dies first.

Damn.

Poor Tyrion.

I suppose Jamie will now have to save him; this will be good.

Episode 8

The previous episode was the first in years to do anything interesting with Jorah, this one continues that by finally revealing where Varys got his info.

We had already seen Jorah reading a secret message before saving Daenerys from the poisoned wine, which was referred to in this episode.

OH no! The wildings are getting even closer! There are 100.000 of them! Of course we only see about a dozen, but no matter. I'm sooo bored with the Wall plot.

Yes, this slight discrepancy rather undermines it. Can't they afford a little CG crowd of Wildlings for one scene? Showing whole rows of them on a hill then charging down on a village wouldn't be so hard to do, would it?

[A bit later] Thanks Gloin for the reminder (most of the men are still outside); still, it was easy to get confused by the dialogue.

And then, the Crows should have a better notion of the number of men in the raiding parties, shouldn't they?

The information they get may very well be distorted, amplified by fear and retelling, though.

The scene between Tyrion and Jaime is well done, and well acted by both. But it really does feel like time filler before the duel.

Ah yes, I forgot about that one. Great little story, but without a moral; will it be revealed later, as in My Name Is Nobody?

Mountain is hardly established as a character in the novels. He is more of a distant villain who just does Lannister's dirty work and is in every other character's backstory as the horrible evil bad guy who was cruel, gigantic and ruined their lives somehow.

Maybe they should just never have shown his face, then, and just always feature him wearing a-- wait, I can't remember the word-- you know, a completely closed helmet.

[Bilbo 3,709]

OH no! The wildings are getting even closer! There are 100.000 of them! Of course we only see about a dozen, but no matter. I'm sooo bored with the Wall plot.

Yes, this slight discrepancy rather undermines it. Can't they afford a little CG crowd of Wildlings for one scene? Showing whole rows of them on a hill then charging down on a village wouldn't be so hard to do, would it?

No, all we've seen so far are the scouting party south of the wall. Mance sent Jon with this party last year, they're job was to scale the way, wait for Mance's signal and then attack the castle from the South while Mance's army attacks from the North. We should get plenty of views of Mance's army in this episode.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Ah right sorry, wasn't sure what that little bit meant and I was confused by the lack of quote and too lazy to check.

It's a common complaint I've seen from people around the internet though.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Yeah. I did think it was pretty obvious but having read the books I give people the benefit of the doubt

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Samples from the Season 4 soundtrack. I've copied the tracklisting below; unspoiled viewers might wish to avoid it. The music from the last track sounds very much like the sort of music which would accompany the transition from final scene to credits, which is intriguing if true; not the final scene many people have been speculating about.

1. Main Titles - 00:00-0:30

2. The Rains of Castamere (Sigur Rós) - 00:30-1:00
3. Breaker of Chains - 1:00-1:30
4. Watchers on the Wall - 1:30-2:00
5. I'm Sorry for Today - 2:00-2:30
6. Thenns - 2:30-3:00
7. Meereen - 3:00-3:30
8. First of His Name - 3:30-4:00
9. The Biggest Fire the North Has Ever Seen - 4:00-4:30
10. Three Eyed Raven - 4:30-5:00
11. Two Swords - 5:00-5:30
12. Oathkeeper - 5:30-6:00
13. You Are No Son of Mine - 6:00-6:30
14. The North Remembers - 6:30-7:00
15. Let's Kill some Crows - 7:00-7:30
16. Craster's Keep - 7:30-8:00
17. The Real North - 8:00-8:30
18. Forgive Me - 8:30-9:00
19. He Is Lost - 9:00-9:30
20. I Only See What Matters - 9:30-10:00
21. Take Charge of Your Life - 10:00-10:30
22. The Children - 10:30-11:00

[Olivier 5]

Attack on Mole's Town - The entire wildling story this season has been odd. I mean, I get that Mance, who is in charge of the assembled wildlings, is amassing his 100,000 person army and preparing to attack The Wall from the north. And I get that the small group of wildlings who climbed the wall last season and currently have Ygritte and Tormund and those cannibal guys are kind roaming free and attacking random villages. But I don't really get why. Is it simply to try to draw the Night's Watch away from Castle Black, or something more?

That seems to be the point, but they're very lucky that nobody send help to Castle Black; had the kingdoms or even some of the lords of the North sent armies, they would have been wiped out.

Come to think of it, I wonder if there's supposed to be some sort of metaphor in there, about a band of barbarians terrorizing a much greater nation that could get rid of them quickly if the powers that be only decided to act.

The problem is that no one will take the threat seriously until it's much too late: like the top Crow repeated last time, nobody from the North has ever passed the Wall in centuries, let alone an invading army, so it can never happen.

It's like that joke: a guy falls off a building and all the way down he tells himself "Everything's fine so far".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Olivier 5]

Oh yea, I too wondered during the episode if Sansa and Petry had concocted that plan together in between the push and the trial. However, as the scene went on, it was clear Petyr had no idea what Sansa was gonna do.... at least I think. I suppose you could interpret his facial expressions in different ways. I said out loud "hide your smirk dude!" At the end of the scene when Sansa was being hugged by the female council chick.

He just wasn't sure she would go with it.

So was Arya laughing because "This is hilarious, another one of my relatives is dead!" or because "This is hilarious, this is the second time The Hound has tried to sell me for ransom to someone that had just been killed!"? Or both?

The second one.

It has to be a forgery if it was signed by King Robert, who is long dead at that time.

I assumed it was supposedly some x-year old document, that Tywin dug out of some archive to send over, not some new forgery.

Duh! Don't you guys know photocopies?

And the totally ponderous and utterly unprofound conversation between Jamie and Tyrion. What a load of shit that was! I'd have rather they just padded out the epi with more tits and arse instead of having to endure that really boring writer's indulgence.

I think the point was that The Mountain is just a dumb guy squashing beetles (or in this case Oberyn) just like Tyrion's cousin was.

Great guess; I should have thought of it.

If there is one thing GoT has done very well it's make it clear that no one if safe. Tyrion is the most popular, most noble character by far. In what other TV show would you actually be scared that they might kill him?

LOST did a pretty good job of killing off several extremely popular characters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What's Lost?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Holy crap, that was a good episode. They really need to adopt the one storyline per week approach permanently.

[nightscape94 965]

What's Lost?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That was excellent. Exciting, dramatic, well staged. Great action direction by Neil Marshall. And superb use of special effects.

The music is very bland though. Drums and ostinato's galore. It's Helms Deep without Howard Shore!

[Incanus 5,714]

Holy crap, that was a good episode. They really need to adopt the one storyline per week approach permanently.

Yeah excellent stuff and when it is presented in coherent long arc it retains much more dramatic power and momentum. These kind of mini-movies would be cool if not for the fact that it would lose some of the sense of overall pacing if we saw what happened separately to all the main characters for one hour and then the season would just end. Perhaps they should just cut down to 2 or 3 plotlines/episode.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

I've been keeping track of the screentime allocated to the various plotlines throughout Season 4. So far, only the King's Landing, Night's Watch and (barely) Daenerys threads have enough material to make up a full episode. That means that, if single-issue episodes were to become the standard, a lot of major characters would only appear in one episode per year - a bold move, no doubt, but not one I can imagine the makers or the studio even seriously considering.

As for last night's episode, I can't help but wonder whether it would have been better if they'd just finished the entire Night's Watch Season 4 storyline (by moving the Episode 10 material forward) to give the sort of self-contained feeling that the Blackwater episode has. I suppose it's too soon to judge that, before seeing how they've designed the mood and pacing of the finale.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I've been keeping track of the screentime allocated to the various plotlines throughout Season 4. So far, only the King's Landing, Night's Watch and (barely) Daenerys threads have enough material to make up a full episode. That means that, if single-issue episodes were to become the standard, a lot of major characters would only appear in one episode per year - a bold move, no doubt, but not one I can imagine the makers or the studio even seriously considering.

As for last night's episode, I can't help but wonder whether it would have been better if they'd just finished the entire Night's Watch Season 4 storyline (by moving the Episode 10 material forward) to give the sort of self-contained feeling that the Blackwater episode has. I suppose it's too soon to judge that, before seeing how they've designed the mood and pacing of the finale.

I think there's a reason they didn't but I won't say here as it'd be a spoiler.

The 1 episode 1 storyline idea for a full season would be terrible. They should however cut down the number of storylines per episode. I do think this season will be the "busiest" season though. It should get a bit tighter next season.

[Wojo 2,453]

It was a well enough made and thrilling episode, to be sure, but a lot of it felt unnecessary. They took an hour to show what happens when a few dozen wildlings attack both sides of the Wall simultaneously, at only one gate. How long would a committed battle between the full wildling army and the Night Watch take? Oh right, Jon Snow's gonna talk Mance out of it. But that's going to have to wait until at least next season.

Combine this episode with what Lord Bolton told Ramsay last week: the North is huge, hundreds of miles in each direction. Too bad the Night Watch don't know about the North's secret weapon. Just open the gates and let one Ramsay Bolton prove his worth on that army.

The tenth episode is going to be pretty dense if they want to resolve all the southern plot threads.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Combine this episode with what Lord Bolton told Ramsay last week: the North is huge, hundreds of miles in each direction. Too bad the Night Watch don't know about the North's secret weapon. Just open the gates and let one Ramsay Bolton prove his worth on that army.

Yup, unleashing 100,000 Wildlings on the North is definitely an effective way to guard the realms of men!

[Wojo 2,453]

I have faith that psycho Ramsay could handle them all.

[KK 3,307]

Good stuff, pretty entertaining. But I really wish they finished up the storyline of the Wall. The payoff of all that fighting just didn't cut it. All those people dying, endless fights, just so that Jon can go and try to kill Mance? How epic would it have been

if we got to see Stannis reigning done "Ride of the Rohirrim" style to save the day?

Now you have to cram THAT in too in the last episode. Would have been nice to see the conflict in the North wrapped up in this episode, and then we get to see King's Landing in action for the last. I'm guessing the finale will end with an ominous introduction to

the Children of the Forest.

This episode to me just pointed out some of the weird pacing issues with this show. They seem to struggle with distributing the plot details between the episodes. A real challenge for sure, but there's a better way to do it then they do. Like others said, it should be limited to 2-3 storylines per episode.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

I think there's a reason they didn't but I won't say here as it'd be a spoiler.

I can think of a few reasons (Episode 10 spoiler):

potential spoilers in the opening credits, a strong similarity to the ending of

Blackwater, and perhaps a wish to have the finale packed with big moments.

I do think this season will be the "busiest" season though. It should get a bit tighter next season.

I'm not so sure about that, actually! Before yesterday's detour up north, this season had been focused pretty firmly on the King's Landing material (getting about 40% of the screen time), and that material has itself been concerned almost exclusively with the events around Tyrion's conviction for Joffrey's murder. Overall, this season will likely turn out to have had the tightest narrative since Ned lost his head.

Next year, on the other hand, they'll have to deal with the continuation of the storylines of those characters who get out of Season 4 alive (which will surely involve some further fragmentation), as well as at least one major new storyline going by the casting leaks. Even if they're able completely to excise the other two big new ingredients which are introduced in Books 4 and 5, it's going to be a job and a half to condense all of this down to a single season.

Oh right, Jon Snow's gonna talk Mance out of it. But that's going to have to wait until at least next season.

Jon's stated objective was to kill Mance out of it. There'll be more of that storyline next week.

I'm guessing the finale will end with an ominous introduction to...

That seems a reasonable bet going by the soundtrack. Another possibility is given extra credibility by the fact that (potential Episode 10 spoiler for people who have read the books)

Lena Headey reportedly shared (on some social networking platform or other) a photograph of a collection of stones arranged in the form of a heart.

Not that that would have to be the final scene, of course; it just seems like quite a thrilling possibility...

[crocodile 8,000]

That seems a reasonable bet going by the soundtrack. Another possibility is given extra credibility by the fact that (potential Episode 10 spoiler for people who have read the books)

Lena Headey reportedly shared (on some social networking platform or other) a photograph of a collection of stones arranged in the form of a heart.

Not that that would have to be the final scene, of course; it just seems like quite a thrilling possibility...

Yes, that is my guess, actually. Would make for a great cliffhanger final scene.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This episode shows that catchphrases DO NOT work in drama!

"You know nothing Jon Snow."

As final words, it's predictable, cheesy and dramatically false.

[KK 3,307]

Yup. I didn't really mourn for Ygritte either.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

She didnt do much this season. All we did was saw her pillage and kill.

Did Gilly kill Janos Slynt?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jon Snow rocks!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's gonna plough through 100.000 men, giants and Mûmakil and strangle that traitor Mance with his bare hands!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

I'm going to find Mance, Sam. Get the guitar.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

I can think of a few reasons (Episode 10 spoiler):

Or perhaps it would just have been too much like TTT. The episode feels a lot like

Helm's Deep as it is, which could hardly be avoided. I imagine people might have cried "ripoff" if they'd included the Gandalf/Stannis eucatastrophy.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I can think of a few reasons (Episode 10 spoiler):

Or perhaps it would just have been too much like TTT. The episode feels a lot like

Helm's Deep as it is, which could hardly be avoided. I imagine people might have cried "ripoff" if they'd included the Gandalf/Stannis eucatastrophy.

I agree with the TTT comparisons but the majority of criticism would have come from fans of the show already familiar with the battle of Blackwater where they're saved in similar fashion by Tywin.

[Quintus 5,399]

Great episode, one of the better ones of the show in general. Siege was well mounted and there was battle storytelling here to rival Helms Deep. Quality special effects and convincing scope, you can see they weighted the budget at this end of the season. Definitely not a repeat of the ropey siege of King's Landing.

Once again the grind was worth it. Damn you Game of Thrones!

[crocodile 8,000]

I too thought it was a really strong episode, with focused and well paced narratve. Less, 10 storylines crammed into 50 minutes and more stuff like this, showrunners!

And I don't even like Jon Snow.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Quality special effects and convincing scope

So far the only moment in the whole series where the SFX weren't up to scratch was the shot of Dany on top of the Mereen pyramid. That looked seriously ropey. Other then that GOT has top notch effects work.

I too thought it was a really strong episode, with focused and well paced narratve. Less, 10 storylines crammed into 50 minutes and more stuff like this, showrunners!

Well that's the style of the show and it's very successful, so I doubt they will ever change that. It also maximizes the number of episodes the minor characters appear in.

But the series does occasionally need an episode like this one, where it just focuses on one thing and let's rip!

[crocodile 8,000]

It might be a contractual requirement as well, as some actors need to be used in certain number of episodes per season. A lot of network-based shows work this way, but who knows how HBO does it?

I don't think each episode needs to be centred around just one aspect. As others (and myself, too) pointed out, Lost had a enormous cast and collection of characters each season and they managed to basically to focus on one of them per episode, with two other minor subplots being used as well. That way, episodes felt more focused. In other episodes you would revisit different aspects, or show something from different perpsective and, as a result, you'd have a complete picture. But each chapter had definite self-contained structure and characters always came first.

Again, I'm not saying Lost is better a better series. It is certainly not (in terms of writing at least). But it demonstrated how you could successfully use all the threads in a more coherent and satisfying way, without over-cluttering the storytelling.

Karol

[oierem 152]

It might be a contractual requirement as well, as some actors need to be used in certain number of episodes per season. A lot of network-based shows work this way, but who knows how HBO does it?

I don't think each episode needs to be centred around just one aspect. As others (and myself, too) pointed out, Lost had a enormous cast and collection of characters each season and they managed to basically to focus on one of them per episode, with two other minor subplots being used as well. That way, episodes felt more focused. In other episodes you would revisit different aspects, or show something from different perpsective and, as a result, you'd have a complete picture. But each chapter had definite self-contained structure and characters always came first.

But in Lost most of the characters were together, or at the most, separated in two groups. Even if the episode was focused on one character's storyline, that character interacted with several other main characters, the result being that every episode featured more than half of the main characters at least. And all those different storylines were much more linked together, coming together at the end of each season.

Thrones has totally separated storylines which don't cross with each other, most of them featuring only a couple of major characters.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Lost was better. No doubt about it!