#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Exactly!AI will get its moment in the sun, like it did on 01, then we will go back to speculation about Star Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 A shame. Is this JWFan or JWBlockbusterfan?There is more to the man than flashy fanfare scores, or scores of any type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I actually agree with myself in this thread. If you remove the songs and arrange the album into a more chronological order, it's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 A shame. Is this JWFan or JWBlockbusterfan?There is more to the man than flashy fanfare scores, or scores of any type.Sure but how many people grew up watching A.I. as a kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 A shame. Is this JWFan or JWBlockbusterfan?There is more to the man than flashy fanfare scores, or scores of any type.John Williams is the blockbuster king! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well, E.T. doesn't generate much discussion, either. Neither do many of my other favorite JW scores, such as Always, Amazing Stories: The Mission, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jaws, Minority Report, NBC News, Superman: The Movie or The Towering Inferno. Whenever those scores do come up, publicist tells me to stop listening to the same stuff. So I just stopped trying to discuss them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Jaws, Superman and E.T. not getting discussed is because most people here fail to see the genius of those scores. Especially newer members like KK and TGP.Fucking morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It seems the only time they're discussed, people accuse them of being boring or only half a good score. What the hell has happened to this place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Sadly the new generation of Williams fans are unable to appreciate his Golden Age work and prefer what he did for WOTW, Minority Report or Sleepers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well, I think Minority Report is a fuckin' great score. I much prefer it to A.I. or Prisoner of Azkaban, which seem to be the most beloved modern JW scores. Is it on the level of his Golden Age 70s and 80s scores? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Jaws, Superman and E.T. not getting discussed is because most people here fail to see the genius of those scores. Especially newer members like KK and TGP.Fucking morons.Utterly wrong. I just see the greater genius in other scores. Do not call me names because you can not expand your mind.This faction of JWFan that pretends they are oppressed for liking the "true" and "Golden Age" scores that no one else appreciates is quite silly. They know nothing of what forum oppression based on taste truly feels like.Try preferring his scores that don't have the indisputable "classic" status no matter how victimized you pretend they are. Try being a Zimmer fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,353 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well, E.T. doesn't generate much discussion, either. Neither do many of my other favorite JW scores, such as Always, Amazing Stories: The Mission, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jaws, Minority Report, NBC News, Superman: The Movie or The Towering Inferno. Whenever those scores do come up, publicist tells me to stop listening to the same stuff. So I just stopped trying to discuss them. Please continue to discuss any scores you want to discuss! Don't listen to publicist or other whiny posters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Fuck you. E.T. and Elliot does not 'discuss', he just crawls from under his rock form time to time to whine that people should love the second half of SUPERMAN and that's about the level of discussion that he is able to generate. If there is ever a post by him that is more than fanboy hyperbole i will die a happy man, though. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Anyone who thinks ET is a boring score ain't a true John Williams fan.AI is okay, it has that pretty Monica's theme, some cool noodly bits, and that soprano that I'd like to strangle. But it does nothing to elevate the dreadful film from the abyss of sheer overpowering mediocrity. I revisited the movie recently hoping I'd like it more being about a decade older, but I find more depth in Data's journey than David's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well it looks like he hates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yes... that's it. I HATE THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Anyone who doesn't revere this score isn't a true Williams fan. Anyone who doesn't revere the film is just as lost. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I admire its ambition. But the final package is a vague and muddled mess. Whoever pretends they get it is kidding themselves.The score has bits I like. But Monica's theme is better performed on the piano than with that annoying singer lady in Where Dreams Are Born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Those who are deluded enough not to love this score unconditionally should go away and rethink their lives. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 I admire its ambition. But the final package is a vague and muddled mess. Whoever pretends they get it is kidding themselves.The score has bits I like. But Monica's theme is better performed on the piano than with that annoying singer lady in Where Dreams Are Born.You will burn for your heresy and your lack of vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,008 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Thank you. Now let's get back to love.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Those who are deluded enough not to love this score unconditionally should go away and rethink their lives. You're talking about billions of people, Incanus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Like with EOTS, i still wonder why Williams in both cases chose to underline the disjointed nature of the movie by complementing them with equally disjointed scores - it's not a criticism per se, though i wonder how both films would have worked with strong unifying vision. John Barry, a technically inferior composer, would be a great example of a musical unifier who maybe would have gotten to the core point. Maybe they tried and it didn't work but as both scores are, they sound like they are a compound of different works, A. I. more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Thank you. Now let's get back to love.KarolThe so-called love in AI was fake. All synthesized by William Hurt because he couldn't get over his dead kid. He needed help. The movie should have ended with David shorting out in the pool and being sent to the scrap yard. Or the flesh fair or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Like with EOTS, i still wonder why Williams in both cases chose to underline the disjointed nature of the movie by complementing them with equally disjointed scores - it's not a criticism per se, though i wonder how both films would have worked with strong unifying vision. John Barry, a technically inferior composer, would be a great example of a musical unifier who maybe would have gotten to the core point. Maybe they tried and it didn't work but as both scores are, they sound like they are a compound of different works, A. I. more so. I agree with you on AI, but isn't that how Williams always writes a score? By amplifying what he feels or sees? If the movie is a heap of different movies thrown together then Williams will accentuate that by the nature of his working method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Those who are deluded enough not to love this score unconditionally should go away and rethink their lives.You're talking about billions of people, Incanus.So bet it but I make no assumption they all visit here, which was the people I meant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Like with EOTS, i still wonder why Williams in both cases chose to underline the disjointed nature of the movie by complementing them with equally disjointed scores - it's not a criticism per se, though i wonder how both films would have worked with strong unifying vision. John Barry, a technically inferior composer, would be a great example of a musical unifier who maybe would have gotten to the core point. Maybe they tried and it didn't work but as both scores are, they sound like they are a compound of different works, A. I. more so.I agree with you on AI, but isn't that how Williams always writes a score? By amplifying what he feels or sees? If the movie is a heap of different movies thrown together then Williams will accentuate that by the nature of his working method.I'd say 99,9% of movies don't strive to be a heap of different movies and i guess both of these i named weren't intended as such, either. And Williams is not a composing robot who does things because program A told him so. I actually think most times he tries to find a unifying texture, throwing in the odd scherzo or a cue like THE BALLROOM (from WITCHES OF EASTWICK) if the narrative allows for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Anyone who doesn't revere this score isn't a true Williams fan. Anyone who doesn't revere the film is just as lost.Rubbish! Both are mere obscure entries in the careers if these great men! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Like with EOTS, i still wonder why Williams in both cases chose to underline the disjointed nature of the movie by complementing them with equally disjointed scores - it's not a criticism per se, though i wonder how both films would have worked with strong unifying vision. John Barry, a technically inferior composer, would be a great example of a musical unifier who maybe would have gotten to the core point. Maybe they tried and it didn't work but as both scores are, they sound like they are a compound of different works, A. I. more so.I agree with you on AI, but isn't that how Williams always writes a score? By amplifying what he feels or sees? If the movie is a heap of different movies thrown together then Williams will accentuate that by the nature of his working method.I'd say 99,9% of movies don't strive to be a heap of different movies and i guess both of these i named weren't intended as such, either. And Williams is not a composing robot who does things because program A told him so. I actually think most times he tries to find a unifying texture, throwing in the odd scherzo or a cue like THE BALLROOM (from WITCHES OF EASTWICK) if the narrative allows for it.But, Pubs, the scherzo comedy bit is actually a mechanical practice for Williams. And surely, Williams merely followed Spielberg's disjointed style here, don't you think? Personally, I think he is a slave of his working method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It seems so...i just wonder if both of these experienced pro's couldn't or wouldn't see the advantage of at least a musically clear narrative? I can't understand why i. e. the blue fairy stuff has to be a totally different piece musically from the main theme. It's the culmination of the journey and dramatically, it makes no sense, really.In other films, Williams doesn't do that (at least not that i'm aware of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,008 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I buy it because that's exactly what Kubrick did in pretty much all his films. What does Khachaturian has to do with Ligeti or Strauss? No clue.All of this stands out more in A.I. because this was composed by one person. But I bet that was always the intention.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Sounds plausible. Though i find it as wrong as in Kubrick's case. Director's slapping their favourite record selections on the soundtrack are the natural enemy of the soundtrack fan, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Some worship Tarantooti for doing just that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It seems so...i just wonder if both of these experienced pro's couldn't or wouldn't see the advantage of at least a musically clear narrative? I can't understand why i. e. the blue fairy stuff has to be a totally different piece musically from the main theme. It's the culmination of the journey and dramatically, it makes no sense, really.In other films, Williams doesn't do that (at least not that i'm aware of it).Williams clearly wanted (and I guess so by extension Spielberg) to clearly delineate the notions of David's love for Monica (and vice versa) and David's notion of becoming a real boy to win that love. The Blue Fairy material speaks to that specific hope while Monica's theme is directly linked to the mother's love.You could see the episode one of the movie establishing Monica's theme and David's quest, the second episode evoking David's hope of becoming a real boy and finally the third episode uniting the two. Why two different themes were used is probably JWs gut feeling. Either that or he wrote so nice melodies when he tried out things for Monica's theme Spielberg didn't have heart to thrown them out and used one of them for the Blue Fairy. Who knows.Or perhaps it is as croc says and it was a sort of musical collage technique of picking different eclectic styles for the music and dropping them into the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Williams clearly wanted (and I guess so by extension Spielberg) to clearly delineate the notions of David's love for Monica (and vice versa) and David's notion of becoming a real boy to win that love. The Blue Fairy material speaks to that specific hope while Monica's theme is directly linked to the mother's love.You could see the episode one of the movie establishing Monica's theme and David's quest, the second episode evoking David's hope of becoming a real boy and finally the third episode uniting the two. Why two different themes were used is probably JWs gut feeling. Either that or he wrote so nice melodies when he tried out things for Monica's theme Spielberg didn't have heart to thrown them out and used one of them for the Blue Fairy. Who knows.It's not consistent. He clearly doesn't abandon his themes from the first act (especially that glassy, detached theme left off the album) and while it isn't a world-shattering event my gut feeling says that Kubrick would have made an altogether different film where there were no bleedovers musically - that's why these movies work as they do. But that's a different discussion. There are the usual nincompoops at FSM blaring like air sirens that the ending is not wrong, ill-conceived or off - because it's Kubrick's ending! Which is of course pure rubbish, not one frame of this Kubrick movie would resemble the Spielberg film. It would be totally different even if the same on page. Be that as it may, as a musical work A. I. surely is a fine achievement and i like, i must admit, the parts that are least Kubrick and most Spielberg, namely theme for David's abandonment that plays like a 'Grimm' fairy tale and is in the spirit of E. T.'s forest scenes and a lot of the carpenting - the wash of music over a lot of scenes that just play like Spielberg - whereas stuff like CYBERTRONICS seems a bit stilted in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I buy it because that's exactly what Kubrick did in pretty much all his films. What does Khachaturian has to do with Ligeti or Strauss? No clue.All of this stands out more in A.I. because this was composed by one person. But I bet that was always the intention.KarolThe problem is that A.I., the movie, has two faces: Kubrick and Spielberg (two clashing styles). And so Williams scored it like that. Once he served Kubrick, then he goes Spielberg. Yes, Kubrick used different classical composers but it always was Kubrick. That's a big difference, crocs.It's also the reason why I hear nothing wrong in Empire Of The Sun. To me, that's Spielberg and no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Not to the degree of being 'wrong', that's not it. EOTS is one of cinema's great achievements till after the siege of Shanghai. I think the first 40 minutes still belong to my most-loved examples how brilliant a director can set a scene. Then it kind of fizzles off into more common melodrama (that is hard enough to do, god knows). But it loses dreaminess and ambivalence and i guess a stronger musical guiding hand could have had that impact to make it less of a hodgepodge (pathos, scherzo, dissonance). Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I admire its ambition. But the final package is a vague and muddled mess. Whoever pretends they get it is kidding themselves.It seems like it has the ingredients for a good film, but Spielberg fucked it up in the preparation. Or maybe it was always hopeless since Kubrick handed it off to Spielberg. I "get" certain aspects of it. You know, the idea that love cannot be replaced by technology; the only thing that would remain of the human race would be the memories and "love" of a little robot boy; uhh...global warming is real? Where it loses me prior to the 45 minute finale: we know that David is simply programmed to love. The "His love is real" tagline from this film...no, no it's not. Can a machine be programmed to genuinely love? I can appreciate David's plight in becoming aware of his artificiality and desire to become human, but I never grow to really care about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 A Teddy spin-off would have been more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 There you go. Teddy was a far more interesting because he was a cantankerous little SOB. That's cool. Jude Law's charismatic Mecha was a breath of fresh air in such a stolid film. But his character went nowhere. I'm so torn on this movie. I just don't get it. I've got to get back to watching E.T. and the Ewok movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 When I watched Let Me In last year, I was immediately reminded of AI because the vampire girl seemed to exist in a somewhat similar predicament as David.She was a vampire who was sired at age 12, and consequently will always remain at the emotional and intellectual level of a pre-adolescent. Much like David as a robot child, she never grows, never matures and never dies (theoretically). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It seems so...i just wonder if both of these experienced pro's couldn't or wouldn't see the advantage of at least a musically clear narrative? I can't understand why i. e. the blue fairy stuff has to be a totally different piece musically from the main theme. It's the culmination of the journey and dramatically, it makes no sense, really.In other films, Williams doesn't do that (at least not that i'm aware of it).Williams clearly wanted (and I guess so by extension Spielberg) to clearly delineate the notions of David's love for Monica (and vice versa) and David's notion of becoming a real boy to win that love. The Blue Fairy material speaks to that specific hope while Monica's theme is directly linked to the mother's love.You could see the episode one of the movie establishing Monica's theme and David's quest, the second episode evoking David's hope of becoming a real boy and finally the third episode uniting the two. Why two different themes were used is probably JWs gut feeling. Either that or he wrote so nice melodies when he tried out things for Monica's theme Spielberg didn't have heart to thrown them out and used one of them for the Blue Fairy. Who knows.Or perhaps it is as croc says and it was a sort of musical collage technique of picking different eclectic styles for the music and dropping them into the film.This score has a lot of Williams' best writing and only falters in its stylistically disjointed nature as you say. I think it's because Williams saw this as an opportunity to try as many new things musically as he could in his career.And Steef, I love JW's Golden Age scores just as much as anybody. I just don't agree when people claim his non-blockbuster scores can't stand among his best, or that his "true heart" isn't into anything that's not Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Typical JWFan idiocy all around! Children ruled by nostalgia, adults ruled by a false sense of refined taste.Someone explain to me how this score is "eclectic" exactly. Post the cues that you feel are somehow opposed to each other. Because this is one of the most unified JW scores I know. This popular opinion is foreign to me. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Common sense is foreign to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Show me the wildly disjointed cues then, you smug bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Blind ape love...nobody (maybe Sharky, but he's a pup) agrees with you, so why don't you tell us what binds the four acts musically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Classic deflection! Oh well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (maybe Sharky, but he's a pup)I'm a WHAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Classic deflection! Oh well....(maybe Sharky, but he's a pup)I'm a WHAT?You are forgiven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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