The Force Awakens Finn has a theme in The Force Awakens score

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I'd expect major strings/brass/piano themes for Finn and Rey, a march for the First Order, a motif for Phasma and BB8, and some kind of dark choral identity for Ren and his Knights.

Intertwine that with all the returning themes and it's one hell of a score.

That's pretty much how I feel the score will turn out too. Though I don't think the chorus will be particularly prominent this time around.

[Jay 37,322]

A match for the villains again? Surely Williams is more creative than that!

[crumbs 14,304]

Just look at how many themes Williams wrote for Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln... he's been pretty theme heavy lately!

I've forgotten all those themes.

Yeah. There were obviously themes in those movies, but they were almost more like motifs than strongly defined themes. Williams hasn't really written an old-style, theme-driven score since HARRY POTTER 3.

This is just categorically untrue! How can you possibly think that's true????

Obviously hasn't heard Tintin. Last time I checked, Williams interwove his Tintin, Snowy, Haddock, Thomson & Thompson and Unicorn themes with absolute class.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

A match for the villains again? Surely Williams is more creative than that!

What would you prefer?

[crumbs 14,304]

I'd expect major strings/brass/piano themes for Finn and Rey, a march for the First Order, a motif for Phasma and BB8, and some kind of dark choral identity for Ren and his Knights.

Intertwine that with all the returning themes and it's one hell of a score.

That's pretty much how I feel the score will turn out too. Though I don't think the chorus will be particularly prominent this time around.

We've heard nothing about choral elements or a chorus being commissioned, so that could be another heavy prequel element being jettisoned in favour of the symphony. Synth maybe?

[crocodile 7,990]

I've got just the video for you!

Well, Desplat used the theme in a context that this guy is talking about.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I'd expect major strings/brass/piano themes for Finn and Rey, a march for the First Order, a motif for Phasma and BB8, and some kind of dark choral identity for Ren and his Knights.

Intertwine that with all the returning themes and it's one hell of a score.

That's pretty much how I feel the score will turn out too. Though I don't think the chorus will be particularly prominent this time around.

We've heard nothing about choral elements or a chorus being commissioned, so that could be another heavy prequel element being jettisoned in favour of the symphony. Synth maybe?

True. though there is that MSW rumor that described the "operatic cantilena". It's far from official of course but the source has proven very reliable on the majority of things.

[Jay 37,322]

A march for the villains again? Surely Williams is more creative than that!

What would you prefer?

I don't know, to be surprised I guess!

[crumbs 14,304]

A match for the villains again? Surely Williams is more creative than that!

Not sure what else would suit the villains but we haven't seen the film that Williams has! Early reports heavily mentioned marches (can already hear the cue for the scene with the entire First Order army assembled on Starkiller base) and I think Williams is trumpet solo'd out after Lincoln!

I've got just the video for you!

http://youtu.be/gy2W2tckTr8

Well, Desplat used the theme in a context that this guy is talking about.

Karol

That's because Desplat was the only living composer capable of tackling Yates' demands on Harry Potter. Williams simply didn't have the expertise to rewrite a temp track.

Obviously Desplat should have scored all 8 films!

A march for the villains again? Surely Williams is more creative than that!

What would you prefer?

I don't know, to be surprised I guess!

You and I both know how THAT meeting went!

JJ: I like The Imperial March...

JW: Yes...

JJ: Do something like that, with different notes!

JW: Okay.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,990]

I've got just the video for you!

http://youtu.be/gy2W2tckTr8

Well, Desplat used the theme in a context that this guy is talking about.

Karol

That's because Desplat was the only living composer capable of tackling Yates' demands on Harry Potter. Williams simply didn't have the expertise to rewrite a temp track.

Obviously Desplat should have scored all 8 films!

No, you don't understand. I'm not talking about Williams or Desplat. The guy is complaining the theme wasn't used to reflect the changes in the story, And it was! It was the innocent and magical world full of possibilities in the first two Williams' scores, then it got twisted to reflect the changing scenario in Doyle's score. And then it ended up being a "loss of innocence" in Desplat era. So he's full of shit.

Karol

[Thor 7,478]

Just look at how many themes Williams wrote for Tintin, War Horse, Lincoln... he's been pretty theme heavy lately!

I've forgotten all those themes.

Yeah. There were obviously themes in those movies, but they were almost more like motifs than strongly defined themes. Williams hasn't really written an old-style, theme-driven score since HARRY POTTER 3.

This is just categorically untrue! How can you possibly think that's true????

Because for me, it is. We don't disagree that there are themes. We disagree that the post-HP3 scores have the same kind of developped, "hummable" (if you will), well-defined themes of yesteryear. That's a purely subjective thing. Your take is no more or less "true" than mine.

I like a lot of JW's post-HP3 output, but it's a rather different territory. The more rhythmic, harmonic exploration-type things he did with stuff like SLEEPERS and A.I. (and to an extent, the SW prequels) have been developped further and nurtured more consequently in the last 10 years. Personally, I think this "new" Williams (sort of) was one that returned on the scene in 2008 after a 3-year break from film scoring.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Prepare for an "Everything Wrong With Your Post" video from Jay as a response, Thor!

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

Excuse me, but how can anyone think this isn't among Williams best themes?

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I understand what Thor is getting at. For example, the prequels had an abundance of new themes but they were never developed properly (barring a few key moments, like Across the Stars while Padme mopes in the ship).

That's a legitimate weakness of Williams' prequel scores,but you have to give the benefit of the doubt considering the mess he was scoring 6 months out from release (and who knows what gibberish Lucas was asking for; certainly not cohesive theme development!)

Maybe we're all too spoiled by Shore's work on LOTR? Ironically even he couldn't avoid the same trap with the Hobbit prequels.

[Quintus 5,399]

It doesn't surprise me one bit that Williams may have provided this new character with a quality memorable theme tune. As recently as War Horse Williams had demonstrated that he is still very much capable of writing rather stunning melodies. I didn't like that score, but its theme was a total stunner.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

It doesn't surprise me one bit that Williams may have provided this new character with a quality memorable theme tune. As recently as War Horse Williams had demonstrated that he is still very much capable of writing rather stunning melodies. I didn't like that score, but its theme was a total stunner.

Which one? I still haven't figured out what the main theme to that movie was.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,990]

And then. there was another important theme introduced late in the third act.

Karol

[crumbs 14,304]

It doesn't surprise me one bit that Williams may have provided this new character with a quality memorable theme tune. As recently as War Horse Williams had demonstrated that he is still very much capable of writing rather stunning melodies. I didn't like that score, but its theme was a total stunner.

Which one? I still haven't figured out what the main theme to that movie was.

The main theme of War Haorse is in the trailer and the finale cue. Listen for the piano solo.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

I liked the one with the best notes the most.

[crocodile 7,990]

I prefer the Imperial March:

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

And naturally, it was poorly represented in both the movie and score and has no concert arrangement.

[crocodile 7,990]

Well, it is in a concert arrangement... along with all the other themes.

Karol

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

And naturally, it was poorly represented in both the movie and score and has no concert arrangement.

Yeah, the themes in War Horse really could have used concert arrangements. There's not enough delineation between all of them. They sort of fade into each other without any clear ending, creating a infinite loop.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,990]

There's not enough delineation between all of them. They sort of fade into each other without any clear ending, creating a infinite loop.

Hehehe... I actually agree with that.

The only clear one that I don't mix up with the others is the war theme.

And which ones is that?

Karol

[crumbs 14,304]

I prefer the Imperial March:

Karol

I can't wait to hear Williams' rendition of this theme in "The Falcon Blows Up & Everyone Dies." Some cue that will be!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,990]

It's a missed opportunity not to quote that for Vader'd death. John Williams should know better! And Thomas Newman too, for that matter!

There's not enough delineation between all of them. They sort of fade into each other without any clear ending, creating a infinite loop.

Hehehe... I actually agree with that.

The only clear one that I don't mix up with the others is the war theme.

And which ones is that?

What? The war theme?

02:47

I like this one in action setting more. My favourite one is the weepy theme from the final act, followed by the friendship theme.

Karol

[crumbs 14,304]

It's remarkably simple for such a memorable tertiary theme, actually. Just like almost everything he writes.

You'd have thought he'd run out of notes by now, but nope!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I like this one in action setting more.

Agreed. The action music in War Horse is fantastic. I'd love to see that style of writing come back in TFA.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'd like to hear something memorable that makes me want to listen to it over and over again. You know, the complete opposite of War Horse, Tintin, Indiana Jones IV and whatever else he's done in the last decade that I've forgotten about.

[crumbs 14,304]

The action music in "No Man's Land" is exceptional and so far removed from what we're accustomed to with modem Williams action wiring. I'd love to know how that came to pass and whether it's an insight into Williams moving into yet another new style of action writing in his twilight years.

His only other "action" scores in the last decade are literally just KOTCS and Tintin, which both featured similar thematic-yet-cocophonois action cues far removed from his original trilogy scores.

Would be utterly delightful if War Horse was but an appetizer for an entirely new style of action writing from the maestro. It is, after all, his most recent action cue (unless you count "The Snowball Fight" from Book Thief).

[crocodile 7,990]

Guess we'll find out in 6 weeks. Or less.

Karol

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Or today...

The action music in "No Man's Land" is exceptional and so far removed from what we're accustomed to with modem Williams action wiring. I'd love to know how that came to pass and whether it's an insight into Williams moving into yet another new style of action writing in his twilight years.

His only other "action" scores in the last decade are literally just KOTCS and Tintin, which both featured similar thematic-yet-cocophonois action cues far removed from his original trilogy scores.

Would be utterly delightful if War Horse was but an appetizer for an entirely new style of action writing from the maestro

Agreed. I have a feeling we'll get a mixture of both scores in TFA though.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,304]

I'd like to hear something memorable that makes me want to listen to it over and over again. You know, the complete opposite of War Horse, Tintin, Indiana Jones IV and whatever else he's done in the last decade that I've forgotten about.

In fairness, the complete "Jungle Chase (Alternate)", at 9:30, is as close to a sister track of "Belly of the Steel Beast (Complete)" as we're ever likely to get.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

It's today! Fin's theme is here!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I didn't care for it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,990]

It's a ripoff of Zimmer's Batman theme, though.

Karol

[crumbs 14,304]

I didn't care for it.

...seriously??

It's a return to Williams using every quadrant of his orchestra in a cohesive, thematic, rhythmic and (most important of all) exciting blend.

Would you rather he stuck to jumbled mess like "The Crane Fight" from Tintin, which has seemingly no understanding of what it wants to be or what it wants to do?

"No Man's Land" is comfortably the most focused action cue he's written in the last decade. Every section of the orchestra "converses" with the rest, holistically creating a cue both memorable and complex.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I'd like to hear something memorable that makes me want to listen to it over and over again. You know, the complete opposite of War Horse, Tintin, Indiana Jones IV and whatever else he's done in the last decade that I've forgotten about.

In fairness, the complete "Jungle Chase (Alternate)", at 9:30, is as close to a sister track of "Belly of the Steel Beast (Complete)" as we're ever likely to get.

Where can I find this?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Those scores just didn't do it for me. Sorry if I sound like a broken record here, but I've just never warmed up to them. It's not the Williams I know and love. I've been waiting since 2005 for him to return to form.

[crumbs 14,304]

Those scores just didn't do it for me. Sorry if I sound like a broken record here, but I've just never warmed up to them. It's not the Williams I know and love. I've been waiting since 2005 for him to return to form.

Fair enough, nothing wrong with that. I haven't warmed up to his action writing since the 2000's but I see hints of his vintage writing throughout War Horse and the prequels. All too often he feels musically distracted, unable to present a cohesive cue with a clear musical idea. Jango's Escape is a good example.

[crocodile 7,990]

I like this cue. But that might have something to do with it being largely untouched in the film. Which was rare for prequels.

Karol