Octatonicism In Action Cues

[tedfud 38]

Hi

wondering if anybody has noticed weather JW employs the Rimsky-Korsakov method of harmonising Octatonic passages with a parallel scale .

He seems ( and Stravinsky after him ) to favour using the scale with a tone at the start for melodies whilst drawing his harmonies from the scale with a semitone at the start.

Wonder if Maestro does the same.......It would explain a lot !

Tedfud

[Marcus 390]

Williams employs octatonicism very freely, seamlessly shifting tetrachordal subsets in often non-octatonic harmonic contexts.

Only occasionally will you find more traditional "modal" use of octatonicism in Williams' ouvre.

I think part of what makes Williams' harmonic language so compelling, is precisely this sense of synthesis.

[tedfud 38]

ah...so he favours 4 notes over 3 as a set ?.....can you see a patten ( discipline ) in his choices or is it really freeform , based on what he hears at any given moment .

t

[RedBard 71]

Williams employs octatonicism very freely, seamlessly shifting tetrachordal subsets in often non-octatonic harmonic contexts.

Only occasionally will you find more traditional "modal" use of octatonicism in Williams' ouvre.

I think part of what makes Williams' harmonic language so compelling, is precisely this sense of synthesis.

Excellent input. Now try rendering that into plain English (even though I know exactly what you're talking about).

[Marcus 390]

In other words, he isn't bound by any one harmonic procedure, but shifts freely between them. Octatonic melodics can be harmonized by triadic, secundal, quartal or complex structures unrelated to the scale employed.

Melodically, octatonic subsets (half-whole or whole-half tetrachordal units) often work as passing tones, embellishing notes of greater harmonic stability, even in fairly tonal passages (the latter procedure relates to similar chromatic encircling in non-octatonic settings).

There are, of course, certain intervals or intervallic units Williams' ear tends to gravitate towards, regardless of harmonic context, such as #4, b6, maj7 and #9, and any set emphasizing diminished or augmented octaves based on 0-3-4/0-8-11, 0-9-13...

These can often be read as belonging to an octatonic tonality, although I suspect this matters less to Williams, as it would seem he treats these sounds more like sonic "pets" (as I have elsewhere referred to them).

[tedfud 38]

ahh...thank you

so you don't hear him favour the TST version for melodies ?. I do hear 0,8,11 a lot ...I have always wondered weather he leaves out a 4 ...which would create a MAJ triad with a Flat six....a fav of the sci fi genre ..?

so he uses octatonic subsets as a "appoggiatura reservoir ? "....if that description makes any sense....

t

[tedfud 38]

Did some looking for "sonic pets'...most useful post from Marcus...needed re-reading:

It depends on what you wish to examine in your analysis. If you're looking for insights into his melodic structures, horizontal is the way to go. If you wish to explore his sonorities and his harmonic tendencies, go for vertical.

If you're looking for specific scales and modalities, you will find that they shift so easily and seamlessly as to truly generate an entire continuum from total chromatic saturation to diatonicism (and everything in between). His chordal constructions tend to be mixed; triadic chords are often expanded with quartal harmonies and seconds.

You will find certain sonorities that keep returning, though! A few right off the bat: min6-min3, maj6-maj3, P4-min3-min3, P4-P4-min3, P4-P4-min3-min3, min2-maj2-maj2-min2, maj3-P4-min3. These can be analysed in a variety of ways, depending on how you choose to look at them (as pitch sets, modal fragments, chords etc.), but the bottom line is, Williams will potentially employ these 'sonic pets' of his regardless of modal context and/or tonality. If harmony is a continuum from chromatic saturation to white note diatonicism, all notes may "refer" back to the tonic.

So we may have pumping G major chords with an added 9th in the horns, while celli and

basses play a line emphasizing C#s, Ebs and Bbs, while woodwinds keep playing flourishes that accentuate Abs, Fs and Cs.

The reason it doesn't sound chaotic or random, is that it wasn't chaotically or randomly conceived. Rather, all these various harmonic shades flow together and form an essentially seamless integration of all pitches.

I think it might be helpful not to immediately think in terms of isolated modalities, but embrace a wider view.

An exercise would be to play a major chord, and listen to how it retains its harmonic dominance also when we play its tritone, b6 or b3 as a bass note (Gb, Ab and Eb in a C-context), and how for instance a melodic line consisting of #1,2,3,#4,5,6,b7 (C#,D,E,F#,G,A,Bb in a C-context) still gravitate towards it.