Sandor 796 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 A thread to debunk -or confirm- long running myths surrounding John Williams and his work.Myth #1: John Williams changed the tempo of the Jurassic Park Theme considerably for concert performances as part of an out of court settlement with a composer who claimed the theme was too similar to a lullaby he wrote prior to Jurassic Park.Any evidence to this story?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Myths discussed in this thread:Myth #1: John Williams changed the tempo of the Jurassic Park Theme considerably for concert performances as part of an out of court settlement with a composer who claimed the theme was too similar to a lullaby he wrote prior to Jurassic Park. VERDICT: UNRESOLVED.Myth #2: Spielberg turned of the projector for the final part of Adventure On Earth when they were recording ET and Williams did a full take of it, which ended up unedited in the film. VERDICT: UNRESOLVED.Myth #3: Angela Morley wrote the B-theme/melody of the Flying Theme from E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial. VERDICT: FALSE.Myth #4: John Williams wrote several songs for Steven Spielberg's aborted Peter Pan musical in the mid-'80s. VERDICT: FALSE.Myth #5: John Williams was the composer James Cameron originally wanted to score Titanic. VERDICT: TRUE.Myth #6: John Williams contributed new music to Superman Returns. VERDICT: UNRESOLVED. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 i think it was just that artie kane conducted it a little slowly for his tastes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That's unlikely since Kane (if it was indeed him who conducted it) would have been bound to the tempo dictated by the film.I also doubt that a faster tempo somehow make any piece of music any less a rip-off.It's a story that has been bounding around for many years, but I've never seen any confirmation. Miguel would know.Myth #2Spielberg turned of the projector for the final part of Adventure On Earth when they were recording ET and Williams did a full take of it, which ended up unedited in the film.This simply isnt the case. There is one very noticeble edit in the cue, and there are inserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Great topic, Sandor Myth #2Spielberg turned of the projector for the final part of Adventure On Earth when they were recording ET and Williams did a full take of it, which ended up unedited in the film.This simply isnt the case. There is one very noticeble edit in the cue, and there are inserts.I could be wrong, but don't think anyone ever said that the full take ended up unedited in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The myth is that JW did the enteire Saying Goodbye part with the projector turned on and that JW adjusted his movie to fit that performance.While neither JW of Spielberg have claimed that that take was used without any edits, I have certainly seen and heard the story being told as such. Even during a concert performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 While neither JW of Spielberg have claimed that that take was used without any edits, I have certainly seen and heard the story being told as such. Even during a concert performance.I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Speaking of E.T. ...Myth #3: Angela Morley wrote the B-theme/melody of the Flying Theme from E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial.Is there any evidence to this claim or is it just pure bogus..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Speaking of E.T. ...Myth #3: Angela Morley wrote the B-theme/melody of the Flying Theme from E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial.Is there any evidence to this claim or is it just pure bogus..?According to a famous video (discussed here among other threads), Williams composed that melody at Spielberg's suggestion.Myth #4: John Williams wrote several songs for Steven Spielberg's aborted Peter Pan musical in the mid-'80s.From the Hook analysis written by John Takis 15 years ago:In 1985, Steven Spielberg took it upon himself to produce a stage musical based on J.M. Barrie’s timeless classic “Peter Pan.” Naturally, it would be John Williams, Spielberg’s longtime collaborator of Jaws and Indiana Jones fame, who supplied the songs and the musical underscore. With his own frequent collaborator Leslie Bricusse (Home Alone, Superman) supplying the lyrics, Williams composed nine songs and all of the themes before the production was ultimately scrapped. It is unknown whether or not any recordings still exist from this time, or how many themes were specifically compose.The truth (from a recent e-mail from Mike Matessino):Not a single note was ever written for the Peter Pan project in 1986. All John did was clear his schedule to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Myth #5: John Williams was the composer James Cameron originally wanted to score Titanic.True or false...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Myth #5: John Williams was the composer James Cameron originally wanted to score Titanic.True or false...?True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Um..."he now did nothing but Spielberg films"?False. The Color Purple was not scored by JW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Um..."he now did nothing but Spielberg films"?False. The Color Purple were not scored by JW.I also read that as false, but more in the sense of 'he scored Rosewood and Seven Years In Tibet as well around the time of TLW, so surely not 'nothing but Spielberg films'.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Also, what constitutes a Spielberg film in that context?If it includes being the producer a the film as opposed to directing it, then yes, there are plenty of "Spielberg films" that JW didn't compose for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 With the exception of MOAG, Williams never composed for a film Spielberg merely produced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Um..."he now did nothing but Spielberg films"?False. The Color Purple was not scored by JW.What the writer is saying is that during that period JW didn't score any films not directed by Spielberg (which is of course false, but is not a "myth"). It doesn't say that JW scored all the Spielberg films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Um..."he now did nothing but Spielberg films"?False. The Color Purple was not scored by JW.What the writer is saying that JW didn't score any films not directed by Spielberg (which is of course false, but is not a "myth"). It doesn't say that JW scored all the Spielberg films.That's how I read it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Um..."he now did nothing but Spielberg films"?False. The Color Purple was not scored by JW.What the writer is saying is that during that period JW didn't score any films not directed by Spielberg (which is of course false, but is not a "myth"). It doesn't say that JW scored all the Spielberg films.The excerpt used the phrase "nothing but". I don't know how else it could be interpreted without misrepresenting the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,250 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 RedBard, you're wrong."he now did nothing but Spielberg films" is another way of saying "he currently only scores films that are directed by Spielberg". It does not mean "he has scored every one of Spielberg's films".I'm not even sure how you got that all backwards.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 RedBard, you're wrong."he now did nothing but Spielberg films" is another way of saying "he currently only scores films that are directed by Spielberg". It does not mean "he has scored every one of Spielberg's films".I'm not even sure how you got that all backwards....Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The myth is that JW did the enteire Saying Goodbye part with the projector turned on and that JW adjusted his movie to fit that performance.While neither JW of Spielberg have claimed that that take was used without any edits, I have certainly seen and heard the story being told as such. Even during a concert performance.Williams' said pretty much that at 5:26: He doesnt state outright that the score had not been edited, but one could certainly infer it from his words.Either he isnt aware of it, doesnt remember it or is simply perpetuating a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 RedBard, you're wrong."he now did nothing but Spielberg films" is another way of saying "he currently only scores films that are directed by Spielberg". It does not mean "he has scored every one of Spielberg's films".I'm not even sure how you got that all backwards....Then the author should've written that instead, shouldn't she?Brag about it, why don't you?Indeed.Brown-noser.Sorry, but I'm really flustered right now with the recent happenings around here and in the news. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be rude. I initially wanted to explain your confusion myself. Jay nearly ninja'd me, however, so I chose to simply affirm his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Nearly... ninja'd you? You've only succeeded in making me more confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 As in: he posted his explanation whilst I was writing mine . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 "he now did nothing but Spielberg films" is another way of saying "he currently only scores films that are directed by Spielberg". It does not mean "he has scored every one of Spielberg's films".Then the author should've written that instead, shouldn't she?The first sentence sounds better, and the meaning is identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 "he now did nothing but Spielberg films" is another way of saying "he currently only scores films that are directed by Spielberg". It does not mean "he has scored every one of Spielberg's films".Then the author should've written that instead, shouldn't she?The first sentence sounds better, and the meaning is identical.I'm sorry, but the first sentence looks and sounds informal to me. I'm just used to writing in institutional style.And if the meaning of both sentences is identical, then why not swap it out (seeing how it doesn't make a difference anyway)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Arguing for the sake of it. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm sorry, but the first sentence looks and sounds informal to me. I'm just used to writing in institutional style.Meaning, you write in nothing but institutional style? Just kidding. We're all friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Arguing for the sake of it. OK.In John Cleese's voice:Is this a 5-post argument or a full 30 posts?I'm sorry, but the first sentence looks and sounds informal to me. I'm just used to writing in institutional style.Meaning, you write in nothing but institutional style? In Michael Palin's voice:Oh, shut up. Jilal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 As far as I know, Superman Returns was almost exclusively scored by John Ottman. Williams was approached but ultimately the scoring job went to Ottman. However, for years, the Superman Returns soundtrack Wikipedia page has stated that: Williams recommended composer John Ottman and also contributed two new themes. Now, I know, I know, one of the practically first rules of the Internet is to not trust Wikipedia articles. The notion is not sourced and can't be found anywhere else aside from this one website I can no longer seem to find. But still, it's been bugging me. So...Myth #6 John Williams contributed new music to Superman Returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ok, that's a new one... Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 He wasn't credited for additional music, but then again, according to IMDB, he wasn't credited for the original theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 It's unlikely JW reccomended Ottman. He's Brian Singers regular composer and editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 It's unlikely JW reccomended Ottman. He's Brian Singers regular composer and editor.I guess I interpreted that to mean more that Williams gave Ottman his stamp of approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Do we have any info regarding that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Myth #6 John Williams contributed new music to Superman Returns. definately notWilliams recommended composer John Ottman and also contributed two new themes. whaaat? This is a mix up with Superman 4, where Williams did write 2 new themes (Jeremy's theme and Nuclear Man's theme) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Myth #7John Williams recommended Don Davis for JPIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Myth #8: Prior to Attack of the Clones, there had never been a love theme in Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Myth #9John Williams' score for Tucker: The Man of His Dream was rejected (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Myth #9John Williams' score for Tucker: The Man of His Dream was rejected (?)I think Coppola wanted him really badly and Williams was willing to do it, but at the last minute he had to back down due to other commitments, before actually getting to write anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Myth #9John Williams' score for Tucker: The Man of His Dream was rejected (?)I think Coppola wanted him really badly and Williams was willing to do it, but at the last minute he had to back down due to other commitments, before actually getting to write anything.That's a shame. Wonder why they never tried to collaborate on another film. Similarly, I heard from an FSM poster that John Williams was willing to score some Travolta/Polanski film but it was never made. Williams said he'd want to collaborate with Polanski in the future but it never happened. I'm sure there were loads of potential Williams scores that we've never heard about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was supposed to score Meteor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was supposed to score MeteorWhy didn't that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was supposed to score MeteorNo big loss there. At that point, he already had enough disaster films under his belt.There are a lot of myths (?) about John Williams on this rejected film score site. For example, it says that Williams wrote and/or recorded some music for Bicentennial Man before he left the project. http://rejectedfilmscores.150m.com/supposedlyrejected.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Williams recommended composer John Ottman and also contributed two new themes. whaaat? This is a mix up with Superman 4, where Williams did write 2 new themes (Jeremy's theme and Nuclear Man's theme)He wrote three themes. He also wrote Lacy's theme I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was supposed to score MeteorNo big loss there. At that point, he already had enough disaster films under his belt.There are a lot of myths (?) about John Williams on this rejected film score site. For example, it says that Williams wrote and/or recorded some music for Bicentennial Man before he left the project. http://rejectedfilmscores.150m.com/supposedlyrejected.htmlVery interesting site! I didn't realize Williams was supposed to do Jaws 3, if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was supposed to score MeteorNo big loss there. At that point, he already had enough disaster films under his belt.There are a lot of myths (?) about John Williams on this rejected film score site. For example, it says that Williams wrote and/or recorded some music for Bicentennial Man before he left the project. http://rejectedfilmscores.150m.com/supposedlyrejected.htmlVery interesting site! I didn't realize Williams was supposed to do Jaws 3, if true.Do we dare chalk that up as another myth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,833 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How reliable is that rejected scores website? John Williams and Inside Out surely was never on the cards. I'd also be interested to know if anyone had any information on this: It used to say in his biography on Filmtracks that he's considered arrogant and how in an interview he said he was more concerned about the Academy Awards that he hadn't won rather than the ones he had. I just wondered if anyone had heard anything similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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