Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Incanus 5,713]

Concealed within his fortress, the lord of Remote Control Productions sees all. His influence pierces comic book movies, crime dramas, scifi thrillers, and... fantasies.

He is gathering all sound to him. Very soon he will have summoned an army great enough to launch an assault upon Middle-Earth.

Horns, Horns of Doom in the deep! They are coming!

[Faleel 5,342]

BWAAAAHM Guldur

"When Gandalf finds her body dead on the Guldur Frontier his suspicions will be confirmed"

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,342]

With the bright hair flowing?

[crocodile 7,990]

Concealed within his fortress, the lord of Remote Control Productions sees all. His influence pierces comic book movies, crime dramas, scifi thrillers, and... fantasies.

He is gathering all sound to him. Very soon he will have summoned an army great enough to launch an assault upon Middle-Earth.

Horns, Horns of Doom in the deep! They are coming!

Where Is The Horn And The Zimmer?

What business does an Elf-man and a dwarf have in the Ridder-Mark?

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

By nightfall these hills will be swarming with ghostwriters! We HAVE to reach the deadline!

[Faleel 5,342]

Come on Conrad, Salo get them up!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Why not a female voice?

KT Tunstall, Adele, Kylie?

Because we have already had three end credit songs with female voices*?

They worked very well, unlike the atrocity last time round.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Buraaarum, nobody cares about living music anymore, little Zimmer. They come with samples, they come with computers - hacking, droning, copying, pasting! Hacks and destroyers, curse them!!!

[Faleel 5,342]

Hacks and Destroyers doesn't rhyme.

Hackers and Destroyers works better.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hackers doesn't make sense!

Unless there is a Trojan named HanZ

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'd like to see Tori Amos write the end titles song with Shore.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Shush, you're derailing the thread!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

You know who would be my dream Middle Earth singer? Diamanda Galás. Either her or Tom Waits.

[gkgyver 1,645]

No luck, Justin Bieber already agreed. A duet with Miley Cyrus. Jackson has already ordered some score cues to be replaced with orchestral renditions of the song, or why do you think Pope is going back to NZ?

[Alex Shore 83]

Flight of the Chonchords...

.....Lindir.......

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Article on recording DOS.

Occasionally, as the film's prologue cuts to the movie's title, the room fills with a great rumbling of sound topped by a minor-key shriek of strings which sound almost Chinese in its foreboding motif.

"That is a little bit of a Smaug theme in the title," murmurs Jackson after I've sunk into the couch alongside him, leaving my own footwear on. He explains composer Howard Shore, who also did The Lord Of The Rings scores, created a theme for Smaug the dragon - seen briefly enacting a scorched Middle-earth policy in the first Hobbit movie - inspired by the prominence of dragons in Chinese and Indonesian culture.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11141634

[gkgyver 1,645]

Sounds very intriguing actually. With the Tibetan gongs I assume.

You think the prologue ends with a shot of literally the Desolation of Smaug with the title over it? What else could warrant such a terrifying musical singature sound?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Sounds very intriguing actually. With the Tibetan gongs I assume.

And the di-zi and taikos.

You think the prologue ends with a shot of literally the Desolation of Smaug with the title over it? What else could warrant such a terrifying musical singature sound?

I'm guessing that's what the writer means.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Nice article. But Pope directing something to be erased from the performers' parts? Fear, fire, foes, it's true! He's hijacking the score!

[Alex Shore 83]

The pics of the article...

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/image.cfm?c_id=1501119&gal_cid=1501119&gallery_id=138505

Is Doug Adams behind the mac?

And the most important...where is Howard Shore????

[gkgyver 1,645]

You think the prologue ends with a shot of literally the Desolation of Smaug with the title over it? What else could warrant such a terrifying musical singature sound?

I'm guessing that's what the writer means.

I'm not sure you understand. The Desolation of Smaug ist not only the title of the film, it is also what the wasteland between Erebor and Dale is called. Kind of like the Pelennor between Minas Tirith and Osgiliath.

But really, where is Howard Shore?

This is the first scoring process I really don't understand. Is Shore Pope's ghostwriter?

[KK 3,307]

Sounds very intriguing actually. With the Tibetan gongs I assume.

And the di-zi and taikos.

To be honest, I didn't expect that, but knowing Shore's expertise and knack for playing with ethnic colours, I shouldn't be surprised. An Asian sound for the dragon could be really cool, and I always love when Shre introduces these new sounds to his already incredibly diverse musical palette for Middle-Earth.

[Incanus 5,713]

Sounds very intriguing actually. With the Tibetan gongs I assume.

And the di-zi and taikos.

To be honest, I didn't expect that, but knowing Shore's expertise and knack for playing with ethnic colours, I shouldn't be surprised. An Asian sound for the dragon could be really cool, and I always love when Shre introduces these new sounds to his already incredibly diverse musical palette for Middle-Earth.

The comment in the article that Smaug's music and instrumental colours were in part inspired by the Asian's dragon mythology was an interesting point and those Tibetan gongs and even thematic forms make more sense now.

You think the prologue ends with a shot of literally the Desolation of Smaug with the title over it? What else could warrant such a terrifying musical singature sound?

I'm guessing that's what the writer means.

I'm not sure you understand. The Desolation of Smaug ist not only the title of the film, it is also what the wasteland between Erebor and Dale is called. Kind of like the Pelennor between Minas Tirith and Osgiliath.

But really, where is Howard Shore?

This is the first scoring process I really don't understand. Is Shore Pope's ghostwriter?

Yes the Desolation of Smaug is the area of barren wasteland around the Lonely Mountain that was verdant and green before Smaug destroyed when he first attacked to Erebor. As it is with powerful evil creature in Tolkien's stories their presence corrupts their surroundings and thus the desolation remained barren ever since.

And the few token mentions of Howard Shore made me a bit sad. But I guess the reporter could not interview man who wasn't there at this time. My theory still is that this music production was split three ways. Shore in New York writing the music (and hopefully supervising the sessions through a video connection), Conrad Pope and NZSO in New Zealand recording and London Voices in London doing to the choral work. So it is kind of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets set up I guess. Conrad Pope is the new William Ross!

[KK 3,307]

Indeed. Makes me wonder more about how they've designed the dragon.

[Incanus 5,713]

Indeed. Makes me wonder more about how they've designed the dragon.

From what we have seen it is more John Howe than a Chinese dragon, luckily. But as we discussed previously it is really a challenge to get a character this iconic right.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And the few token mentions of Howard Shore made me a bit sad. But I guess the reporter could not interview man who wasn't there at this time. My theory still is that this music production was split three ways. Shore in New York writing the music (and hopefully supervising the sessions through a video connection), Conrad Pope and NZSO in New Zealand recording and London Voices in London doing to the choral work. So it is kind of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets set up I guess. Conrad Pope is the new William Ross!

Urgh!

[Incanus 5,713]

And the few token mentions of Howard Shore made me a bit sad. But I guess the reporter could not interview man who wasn't there at this time. My theory still is that this music production was split three ways. Shore in New York writing the music (and hopefully supervising the sessions through a video connection), Conrad Pope and NZSO in New Zealand recording and London Voices in London doing to the choral work. So it is kind of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets set up I guess. Conrad Pope is the new William Ross!

Urgh!

It's not my fault! I am just gathering up evidence and piecing it together! Don't you hurl up on me because I make horrible revelations!

[KK 3,307]

Incanus, the Forteller of Doom.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Incanus Stormcrow! Ill news is an ill guest.

[Incanus 5,713]

Get used to it. I am a permanent guest. The storm is coming! I'll stormcrow the living daylights out of this MB before the end of the year! Harken my words and tremble!

But you can't deny that the situation looks very much like what I described above. Luckily they didn't just hire Danny the intern to supervise the scoring in NZ but the best in the business Mr. Pope. This is of course my theory only and it certainly doesn't have to mean that Pope is somehow adapting Howard Shore's music but rather doing that needs to be done at the podium to conform the music to the picture, not writing new music. I know this is the most sensitive issue people are most worried about but I am certainly not.

[KK 3,307]

Get used to it. I am a permanent guest. The storm is coming! I'll stormcrow the living daylights out of this MB before the end of the year! Harken my words and tremble!

I thought that was BloodBoal's job...

But you can't deny that the situation looks very much like what I described above. Luckily they didn't just hire Danny the intern to supervise the scoring in NZ but the best in the business Mr. Pope. This is of course my theory only and it certainly doesn't have to mean that Pope is somehow adapting Howard Shore's music but rather doing that needs to be done at the podium to conform the music to the picture, not writing new music. I know this is the most sensitive issue people are most worried about but I am certainly not.

Perhaps what's simply most concerning is that both conducting and orchestrating have been aspects of the scoring process that were traditionally done by Shore for just about every score he's ever done (there might be exceptions). It's kind of his trademark thing, so much so that old Shore needs to put an orchestration/conducting credit on his album covers

So I think it's reasonable to be a bit concerned about this sudden change in his process, especially with such a big project, and one that's a cousin of his career-defining magnum opus.

Do I think Pope is writing new music? Not at all. I think he's just doing his job, orchestrating. You couldn't have a better man for it. But the concerning question remains, where is Shore? And why isn't he where he's supposed to be, at the podium?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Alvar's heart is no longer in it!

[Incanus 5,713]

So I think it's reasonable to be a bit concerned about this sudden change in his process, especially with such a big project, and one that's a cousin of his career-defining magnum opus.

Do I think Pope is writing new music? Not at all. I think he's just doing his job, orchestrating. You couldn't have a better man for it. But the concerning question remains, where is Shore? And why isn't he where he's supposed to be, at the podium?

No doubt it is reasonable to wonder about the change and be a little worried but in the end it really might be a change of MO this time around, perhaps to take off the pressure of doing such a hectic scheduled process across 2 continents yourself like Shore did still with AUJ. Perhaps it took this long for them to realize there was a "better way" of doing these things. This new dividing of responsibilities I would imagine would let Shore focus on writing the music (the main thing) instead of micromanaging everything himself, which is, even with a highly skilled staff, exhausting to the composer on a production of this size. But I am sure we will hear about this side of things before long. Before that we can only speculate.

[KK 3,307]

Indeed. Although I don't think Shore refrained from getting an orchestrator because he didn't see "the right way" of doing things. I believe he's always preferred orchestrating his work himself. In fact, I think he takes pride in it (I've read some comments about it somewhere, don't remember). That's primarily why I'm curious as to the explanation of what's going on this time.

But as you said, let's save the paranoia for after we've seen the full picture.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

My theory still is that this music production was split three ways. Shore in New York writing the music (and hopefully supervising the sessions through a video connection), Conrad Pope and NZSO in New Zealand recording and London Voices in London doing to the choral work.

And nobody is asking why they decided to use the NZSO instead of the LPO? It doesn't make any fucking sense! The guys were like: "Yeah, we're going to use the NZSO, so that it will be easier for Shore and PJ to work on the score, if everybody is in the same country". And, finally, what do we have? Shore in New-York, the London Voices in London and Pope and the NSZO in New-Zealand. WTF? Couldn't they just use the LPO with the London Voices? That wouldn't have make a big difference in terms of organization... In fact, it would have made everything easier (well, in my opinion, at least).

I think the moving of scoring to NZ was to make it easier for Peter Jackson. Even the above article suggests that.

[KK 3,307]

Well how involved does Jackson have to be exactly? I mean is it so much that you have to get a whole new orchestra over one that is already quite familiar with the nature of the material? What happened to the whole video-chat system they had going?

He can probably get music to the picture quicker at this rate though. So I suppose it makes sense. But just not sure if it was worth. We'll have to see I guess.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

Well how involved does Jackson have to be exactly? I mean is it so much that you have to get a whole new orchestra over one that is already quite familiar with the nature of the material? What happened to the whole video-chat system they had going.

He can probably get music to the picture quicker at this rate though. So I suppose it makes sense. But just not sure if it was worth. We'll have to see I guess.

Jackson has I think always felt that the unnecessary flights across the world to supervise the scoring or being in London were an extra trouble, even with the super-quality video linking they had from time to time to patch up for the periods when he had to be in NZ to supervise the cut and the sound mix or whatever and the score was recorded in London. This time they perhaps decided to arrange things this way to facilitate PJ and the film production as a whole. Again I am just trying to figure out their way of thinking, not claiming my reasoning is correct. You can certainly take your arguments to the film makers as they are quite valid.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

I am just trying to figure out their way of thinking, not claiming my reasoning is correct.

Good, because it's not!

Time will tell my excitable little friend. Time will tell.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

So be it then. Some things, BB, we were never meant to know.

[KK 3,307]

And poor Doug has to take the heat, forced to remain ever so elusive about it.

[Incanus 5,713]

And poor Doug has to take the heat, forced to remain ever so elusive about it.

I blame him not for he is a trusty ally in all this but bound by his oath. A messenger from the masters of the music of Middle Earth.

[crocodile 7,990]

Maybe the system you guys said was so brilliant on the previous films, wasn't that brilliant after all? Maybe it was a hell for a composer? No matter what they say on those DVD extras, you have to admit post-production process of Peter Jackson's films looks quite horrifying. Maybe whatever happened here was to make things... better? Why does it always needs to be a conspiracy?

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Maybe the system you guys said was so brilliant on the previous films, wasn't that brilliant after all? Maybe it was a hell for a composer? No matter what they say on those DVD extras, you have to admit post-production process of Peter Jackson's films looks quite horrifying. Maybe whatever happened here was to make things... better? Why does it always needs to be a conspiracy?

Karol

As I said before it has to have an element of sensationalism to it. Blood, guts, sweat and toil, a dash of conspiracy and a dose of hurt feelings to liven up the drama.

[crocodile 7,990]

Well whatever those theories are, one thing is certain: Howard Shore IS working on those films and if he saw any major creative problems, he would have probably left. It has happened before.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

Well whatever those theories are, one thing is certain: Howard Shore IS working on those films and if he saw any major creative problems, he would have probably left. It has happened before.

Karol

Indeed.