Indiana Jones trilogy - Cue Titles and fan-made recordings

[Jay 37,359]

OK I'm not sure exactly who is confused about which parts any more.

 

Let's start by only talking about 1M3 Away We Go!.

 

You can hear that cue in its entirety, will its full clean ending as recorded, in the original OST's "Indy's Very First Adventure", from 4:47 until the end of the track.  Likewise, you hear it in its entirety in the Concord track "Indy's Very First Adventure", from 4:49 until about 8:14 or so.

 

In the above embedded clip from the movie, you can hear it from 2:20-5:43.  The cue ends with Indy falling through the roof of the lion car and landing on the floor.

 

Now this cue does have a bit in the film that isn't on either album: You can hear it from 3:03-3:14 in the embedded clip.  It's more synth callipoe than you can hear in the album mix.  But this wasn't a later-recorded sweetener; The Chris Siddal video proved it was written in to the sheets all along.  So this means that someone chose to omit the synth calliope from the album mix for unknown reasons.

 

But anyway, nobody was really talking about that part in recent discussion, so let's move on to 1M4/2M1 Young Indy.

 

This cue was not on the OST album, but the Concord set premiered the original version of the cue as first recorded, in "Indy's Very First Adventure" from about 8:14-end.  In the above video you can hear it from 5:43-end (the video ends before the cue does).

 

Right away you should notice a major difference.  The Concord set features a short string passage from 8:16-8:18 that you can't hear in the film.  Instead, the film contains a statement of the Young Indy theme (5:43-5:47 in the embedded clip) that covers the footage of Indy slowly parting his hair out of his face.  Maybe Spielberg put in a longer shot of that happening, than how it was when Williams first scored it?

 

Moving on, the original cue has a brass chord followed by a 5-note melody (8:18-8:27 of Concord track).  But in the film, the first chord is instead pizzicato cello, and the ensuing melody is played with more prominent strings (5:47-5:54 of the embedded video).  This covers the lion walking towards Indy and him being backed up towards the whip.

 

All these differences are because in the film you're not hearing the original opening (8:16-8:27) of 1M4/2M1 Young Indy as it was first recorded; You're hearing 1M4/2M1x Sweetener instead.  This is a 6-bar long composition that only calls for Oboe, English Horn, Clarinets, Bassoon, Horn, Violin, Viola, and Cello.  I'm guessing it was requested once Spielberg changed the hair shot and maybe something else about this part of the scene.

 

The next part of the scene is the same in both film (5:54-6:08 of the embedded clip) and Concord (8:27-8:40), covering Indy grabbing the whip off the wall, cutting his chin, and scaring the lion away.

However, the Concord track then continues right into up-beat music for Indy tossing up the whip to be rescued (at 8:40), while the film instead contains a held brass note (6:08-6:11 in the embedded clip) covering him reaching down for the Cross first.  So this appears to be another instance of Spielberg re-editing the scene after Williams first scored it, and seems to be an Insert called 1M4/2M1x Insert (because it is known as "Young Indy - Insert" in GEMA).

 

There's a minor difference later in the cue when Indy approaches his home and the mailbox is shown, but this "extension" is jut artificial looping.

 

I hope that clears up any confusion.

[Faleel 5,347]

I wonder what synth the calliope sound was from. D50?

[Jay 37,359]

36 minutes ago, Brando said:

What is the last 20ish seconds of To Berlin on the Concorde album? Is that apart of the original cue or something else? Cause in the film that section is dropped as Koeniggraetzer March begins to fade in.

 

The Concord track "Marcus Is Captured / To Berlin" contains:

1. 0:00-0:48 = 6M5    The Capture Of Marcus
2. 0:48-end = 7M4/8M1    To Berlin

So yes, what you're hearing is the way the full "To Berlin" cue was originally recorded.  As for why the final part cannot be heard in the final film, that's just normal post-production tinkering.  It seems Spielberg perhaps tightened up the editing here somewhat, or just decided to have the Koeniggraetzer start playing earlier than they originally thought it would.  It you try to sync up the original cue to the film, the original ending kind of works as the camera points to the "Berlin" sign, maybe in the cut Williams scored it didn't fade right into the burning books or something.  Who knows.

[ThePenitentMan1 743]

23 hours ago, Jay said:

Continuing beyond the two different openings, the cue is the same on the Concord as it is in the film until Indy arrives at his house, then there's another difference.

 

What about the extended brass at 6:07?  Just postproduction editing?

 

 

[Faleel 5,347]

33 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

What about the extended brass at 6:07?  Just postproduction editing?

 

 

I think that's the final note of the insert.

 

Think like the end of this from TOD:

 

 

Remember any editing would probably still be done via tape, no VST plugins or DAW/NLE editing.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

You can hear some pretty clear edits in that spot:

 

 

So it sounds like they combined a couple different takes here.

[Faleel 5,347]

7 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

You can hear some pretty clear edits in that spot:

 

 

So it sounds like they combined a couple different takes here.

Reminds me of how that one unreleased cue on the Desolation of Smaug rear channels sounded super messy, but in the full film mix sounded just fine.

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with those goddamn partitions Wallin set up.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

No I don't think so in this case. The first and third part are identical to the OST take; it's just that in the film it appears they split it in half and edited in an extended note in between both sections, and just let the note continue a bit longer.

 

On 03/04/2023 at 10:58 PM, Jay said:

The original cue takes 11 seconds (10:00-10:11 of the Concord track) to cover the Young Indy Theme into the main Indy Theme.  The final film instead takes 14 seconds (7:31-7:45 of the embedded video).  It looks to me like Spielberg maybe extended the shot of the mailbox after scoring perhaps, not sure.  Anyways, this cue is presumably called 1M4/2M1x Insert, though the sheet music for it has never leaked to know for sure.

 

This part is actually just a loop in the film now that I look closer. You can hear the end tail of the lower trombone part repeat when the loop begins.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

9 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

This part is actually just a loop in the film now that I look closer. You can hear the end tail of the lower trombone part repeat when the loop begins.

 

That's what I was thinking, too, but GEMA has entries for both a "Young Indy - Insert" and "Young Indy - Sweetener". So, I wonder if that section with the loop was actually freshly recorded, rather than edited.

 

[Jay 37,359]

14 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

No I don't think so in this case. The first and third part are identical to the OST take; it's just that in the film it appears they split it in half and edited in an extended note in between both sections, and just let the note continue a bit longer.

 

Remember that 1M4/2M1 was not on the OST!  It was only on the Concord.  It's possible Bouzereau grabbed the wrong take to put on that album, compared to the take heard in the film.

 

14 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

This part is actually just a loop in the film now that I look closer. You can hear the end tail of the lower trombone part repeat when the loop begins.

 

Oh, interesting!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Remember that 1M4/2M1 was not on the OST!  It was only on the Concord.  It's possible Bouzereau grabbed the wrong take to put on that album, compared to the take heard in the film.

 

Clarification: What I meant when I said OST was in fact the Concord set, my mistake.

 

3 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

That's what I was thinking, too, but GEMA has entries for both a "Young Indy - Insert" and "Young Indy - Sweetener". So, I wonder if that section with the loop was actually freshly recorded, rather than edited.

 

 

No, I checked and both sections phase, so it's definitely just a loop. I'm wondering, could that Insert possibly be the extended note during the lion/whip shots? It had to have come from somewhere after all.

[Jay 37,359]

It'd be weird if the insert is anything we hear during the lion and whip shots, since those happen right after the Sweetener, and you'd think they would have just written and recorded a new version of the whole scene as a New Opening to the cue.

 

Well, maybe Spielberg changed the 2 sections of the scenes at 2 different times, necessitating an Insert as well as a Sweetener.....

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

Here's the audio directly from the Atmos track. You can very clearly hear all the looping and editing going on here right after the trombones at 0:06

 

 

In other words, the Concord set in this section is complete and uses the correct film take. I have no idea in that case what the insert might actually be.

 

I did a full edit of the scene last night, and the sweetener at the beginning and the elongated note during the whip shots are the only two changes in the entire cue...

 

 

[Jay 37,359]

Well, that certain proves the mailbox extension is just artificial editing

 

(To those who don't hear it: Listen closely at 0:09)

 

So, that must mean that the Insert is the extra stuff during the whipping moment

 

Nice work!

 

I'll update my post up above

[Faleel 5,347]

@Manakin SkywalkerWait, what the hell? when was the atmos track so clean for the sweetener?

[Jay 37,359]

OK I edited my above post to now correctly identify what the Insert is.

Great work today, everybody  

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

30 minutes ago, A Farewell to Kings said:

@Manakin SkywalkerWait, what the hell? when was the atmos track so clean for the sweetener?

 

I suppose I have magic fingers 

 

Spoiler

 

[ThePenitentMan1 743]

.

[Brando 1,863]

I didn’t think my simple question could cause this much confusion, but I’m glad we got to our destination. I say our next move is to forward all our notes to Mike

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

29 minutes ago, Brando said:

I say our next move is to forward all our notes to Mike

 

[Jay 37,359]

This means that "Indiana Jones On The Train" is actually comprised of six elements

 

1. A new opening note
2. 1M3 Away We Go! 
3. 1M4/2M1X Sweetener
4. 1M4/2M1X Young Indy
5. 1M4/2M1X Insert
6. 1M4/2M1X Young Indy (continued) 
7. A new ending 

[CGCJ 394]

Chris Siddall has uploaded some more trascriptions for the Last Crusade revealing some previously unknown cue information!

 

X Marks the Spot:

3m4 To Venice

4m1 Point to Ten

 

Keeper of the Grail:

13m2 The Old Knight

[Jay 37,359]

Doc updated

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ou-XvT1y-4z_s6EDI8ipUN2IRLcb5sURQjijvxyeePs/

[ThePenitentMan1 743]

Have we ever figured out why the 10m1 Fix for Bar 65 found in the bootleg ends differently than it does in the film?  An alternate take changed from the podium?

 

Or if it was edited, what could it have possibly been edited from?

[Jay 37,359]

I never noticed, or used to know and have since forgotten, that that was different!  I'll see if I recognize where it could be tracked from, otherwise I guess we can assume that there are two different recordings of that insert in play (or they newly recorded just the very ending i guess)

[ThePenitentMan1 743]

So on a proper complete expansion...  there might have to be FOUR versions of Death of Kazim, right?

 

The Original

With Inserts 1-3

With Inserts A, 2, and Original!Bar 65 Fix

And the Film Version with Insert 2 and Film!Bar 65 Fix

 

I guess you could squish it down to three if you got creative with the middle two by having Insert A and Insert 1 play back-to-back, and the same for Bar 65 and Insert 3, with enough silence between the inserts to separate them out and make your own edits if you wanted to.

[Holko 9,526]

On 10/01/2024 at 4:56 PM, Jay said:

Doc updated

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ou-XvT1y-4z_s6EDI8ipUN2IRLcb5sURQjijvxyeePs/

Wrong nazi, this one is Vogel, not Voller

 

Also no mention of 6M5 The Capture Of Marcus being mostly unused and replaced by Market Source until its very ending.

 

[Jay 37,359]

Ha!  What a funny error to make

 

OK added a note about The Capture of Markus - and Meeting Hitler too