Ranking the Star Wars Finale/End Credits cues

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The fact that it's unexpected is what makes it perfect for a "final installment ending" for me.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The final Star Wars film was ROTJ. Those other movies in the 90s and 00s and this new set coming out aren't canon.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They are.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Star Wars

ESB

ROTJ.

They are not.

So true.

[Score 770]

There is no such thing as a 'bad modulation.'

Indeed, it is not even a modulation. Let's call it "key transition". Anyway, the chord D - G - C- D (from bottom to top) resolving to E flat major, for me, is quite "bad"

What's bad about it? It's one of Lehman's Type 0 Chromatically Modulating Credential Resolutions (CMCRs), although the voice leading is further smoothed out by the first chord being a sus7, so there's the common tone of G. We're also primed to expect Eb, since the Force Theme relies so heavily on the VI as an arrival point. It sounds almost inevitable.

There's nothing inherently bad about that sort of modulation in and of itself. But it's awful in this context - in a moment that should have declared a sense of finality.

I strongly disagree that we're primed to expect Eb. We're already past that point in the theme. We're primed for a return to the tonic, G, since that's what the Force theme would normally do at this point. If the Force theme was going to be in G minor, the credits should have started in G major. That's the only cadence that creates the appropriate mood for the transition. The chromatic shift that Williams went with has a "surprising" sound to it - it comes out of nowhere, defying your expectations in a way that suggests something new is starting. This could be great if we were cutting to a new scene or something, but this is the credits. The music has to say, "The movie's over!" And in this case, since it was going to be the last Star Wars film, it really needed to say, "The saga's over!"

This discussion is interesting! I am completely on the same side as Datameister. Sharky, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "bad" to qualify this resolution, but I was really refering to the effect in this context. I also would expect G major after that. A satisfactory resolution, at least for me (but I think it's quite a common expectation due to the way music has developed from the Baroque period onwards, in Europe and also in America) would be something related to the perfect cadence V - I or the plagal IV - I. The ending of ROTS is instead very close to the "interrupted cadence" V - VI (in g minor), apart from the common note G, which actually weakens the effect even more (there is one less voice moving):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_(music)

I mean, there is a reason why V - VI is called "interrupted (or deceptive)" cadence! One of the key ingredients of it is the semitone shift in the bass, rather than the "strong", key-affirmative jump V - I that would be expected there.

Compare with the last chord of the finale of AOTC. The key is Eb minor, the last chord is Bb 4/7 (i.e., the fundamental is Bb, and on the top of it Bb, Eb, Ab, and Bb on top). This chord, especially in this context, "cries" to resolve on E flat, because the combination Bb + Ab is perceived as the seventh of dominant. Or the end of "A New Hope", where the final resolution is A flat to D flat, after a long passage which establishes without doubts the key of D flat. Or the end of ESB, where the music ends with the cadence Fm7 - Eb, which has ingredients of the plagal cadence IV-I (plus the F in the bass), and the succession sounds natural because the Han/Leia theme in G major contains already chords that are common with the key of E flat major.

For me, there is a huge difference between these last three examples and the case of ROTS, which as I said produces in me the effect of the deceptive cadence. However, if others feel differently about this, it may mean that the perception of cadences is more subjective than one may think. For me this is such a strong identification that I have been wondering for a long time (like Datameister) why Williams didn't simply change the key of the Force theme statement, or of the beginning of the Credits, since it would have cost him just a few minutes.

[Jilal 569]

Maybe George was still editing the picture at the end of scoring, and that cue is one of the last he wrote, and he didn't have time to fully think it through?

I wish he put dates on the top of his sketches on when he started and finished each cue

Williams, in the Saving Private Ryan score featurette, commented on his scoring process saying he usually starts with scoring the end of a picture, and then working toward it.

At approximately 3:12 in the video:

[rough cut 1,714]

IV

V

VI (Victory Celebration)

II

III (Film version)

I

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

There is no such thing as a 'bad modulation.'

Indeed, it is not even a modulation. Let's call it "key transition". Anyway, the chord D - G - C- D (from bottom to top) resolving to E flat major, for me, is quite "bad"

What's bad about it? It's one of Lehman's Type 0 Chromatically Modulating Credential Resolutions (CMCRs), although the voice leading is further smoothed out by the first chord being a sus7, so there's the common tone of G. We're also primed to expect Eb, since the Force Theme relies so heavily on the VI as an arrival point. It sounds almost inevitable.

There's nothing inherently bad about that sort of modulation in and of itself. But it's awful in this context - in a moment that should have declared a sense of finality.

I strongly disagree that we're primed to expect Eb. We're already past that point in the theme. We're primed for a return to the tonic, G, since that's what the Force theme would normally do at this point. If the Force theme was going to be in G minor, the credits should have started in G major. That's the only cadence that creates the appropriate mood for the transition. The chromatic shift that Williams went with has a "surprising" sound to it - it comes out of nowhere, defying your expectations in a way that suggests something new is starting. This could be great if we were cutting to a new scene or something, but this is the credits. The music has to say, "The movie's over!" And in this case, since it was going to be the last Star Wars film, it really needed to say, "The saga's over!"

This discussion is interesting! I am completely on the same side as Datameister. Sharky, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "bad" to qualify this resolution, but I was really refering to the effect in this context. I also would expect G major after that. A satisfactory resolution, at least for me (but I think it's quite a common expectation due to the way music has developed from the Baroque period onwards, in Europe and also in America) would be something related to the perfect cadence V - I or the plagal IV - I. The ending of ROTS is instead very close to the "interrupted cadence" V - VI (in g minor), apart from the common note G, which actually weakens the effect even more (there is one less voice moving):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_(music)

I mean, there is a reason why V - VI is called "interrupted (or deceptive)" cadence! One of the key ingredients of it is the semitone shift in the bass, rather than the "strong", key-affirmative jump V - I that would be expected there.

Compare with the last chord of the finale of AOTC. The key is Eb minor, the last chord is Bb 4/7 (i.e., the fundamental is Bb, and on the top of it Bb, Eb, Ab, and Bb on top). This chord, especially in this context, "cries" to resolve on E flat, because the combination Bb + Ab is perceived as the seventh of dominant. Or the end of "A New Hope", where the final resolution is A flat to D flat, after a long passage which establishes without doubts the key of D flat. Or the end of ESB, where the music ends with the cadence Fm7 - Eb, which has ingredients of the plagal cadence IV-I (plus the F in the bass), and the succession sounds natural because the Han/Leia theme in G major contains already chords that are common with the key of E flat major.

For me, there is a huge difference between these last three examples and the case of ROTS, which as I said produces in me the effect of the deceptive cadence. However, if others feel differently about this, it may mean that the perception of cadences is more subjective than one may think. For me this is such a strong identification that I have been wondering for a long time (like Datameister) why Williams didn't simply change the key of the Force theme statement, or of the beginning of the Credits, since it would have cost him just a few minutes.

Okay, well argued. Not going to dispute you on that.

The only valid reason why Williams would have used Gm is to mirror the Binary Sunset rendition of the Force Theme, arguably its most memorable statement, and the scene itself here is staged to mimic that original moment. An earlier (and more effective) musical attempt at alluding to Binary Sunset is in EPII with Anakin embracing Padme before jumping on the speeder bike, where the final Gm planes chromatically up to Ebm, before launching in Duel of the Fates's native key of Em.

[Datameister 2,042]

I'm sure that the original use of G minor in "Binary Sunset" was indeed the reason why that key was chosen here. Just wasn't worth it, IMO. F minor (and then major) would have been a nice whole-tone compromise between the disparate tonal centers of G and Eb...but oh well...it's not like I'm bitter or anything...

That AOTC example, though...sooooooooo good! One of the finest moments in that score.

[Score 770]

Agreed, that's a great moment. In that case, the transition works effectively.