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The secret sauce in a great Goldsmith theme


zhao1701

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I've been wondering for a long time why a Goldsmith theme is just able to magically soar and emote in ways that I don't hear from most melodies, and what I can learn from them for writing my own music.

I'm sure a lot of different ingredients go into making almost every Goldsmith theme special, but I recently stumbled upon something basic that I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't even know about for this long, so I wrote a post about it on my blog.

http://paralleleverything.com/2015/01/28/what-makes-a-great-melody/

I'll probably get some or a lot of flack for the themes that I choose to compare unfavorably, and I'll be the first to admit that it's not a perfect metric by any means, but I still think it's an interesting thing to be aware of when you're listening to or trying to write melodies.

Thoughts?

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Cheers for linking to your interesting writeup. I'm not trained so I don't know much about musical theory and its correct terminology, but in layman's speak I would say that certain great themes are often deceptively predicable and even inevitable in structure, but that is obviously only touching on the form and melodic flow of a given theme, so what else seems to be key in their design? Well I've noticed that some of the greatest themes implement the 'trick' (technique) of building their melody using notes which sit within two keys (on piano) of the starting note before leaping up the scale to a C or G Major for that satisfying emotional 'hook' - which is the precise moment where the aforementioned "inevitability" comes in. I don't know for sure what it is about that compositional sorcery which makes us especially receptive to those sudden high notes, but my theory is that we are programmed somehow to respond to harmonic sounds of triumphant elation, celebration and deliverance. It's in our DNA, and shrewd composers might strive to tap into that and exploit it.

This only lightly describes my thoughts on more tonally rousing melodics, which is what Williams and Goldsmith famously succeed in. There's much more to it of course, and especially when thinking about the many different melodic and tonal approaches involved in a theme's aesthetic design, but I just wanted to share my own basic observations.

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Well, I have to confess that my own reaction to the themes given would be so contrary as to seem completely inverse: The two finest themes are the ones listed as inferior, and subsequently, I call a gigantic BOGUS on this supposed theory of "flow":

A melody's natural flow and memorability is simply not determined by the number of different scale degrees per downbeat!

In other words, this ends up merely a matter of individual taste.

The best evidence I could give to counter the theory, is that the two "inferior" -supposedly less flowing,less catchy- themes (Star Wars & Superman) happen to be two of the most immediately recognizable themes in our musical culture (that doesn't mean you have to like them, but it reduces the theory to a personal preference).

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Star Wars Main Titles does feature those great "leaps" I mentioned, funnily enough.

I call a gigantic BOGUS on this supposed theory of "flow"

As a listener of music, I'd argue that the perception of flow and melodic inevitability are very closely wedded to each other.

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Well, I have to confess that my own reaction to the themes given would be so contrary as to seem completely inverse: The two finest themes are the ones listed as inferior, and subsequently, I call a gigantic BOGUS on this supposed theory of "flow":

A melody's natural flow and memorability is simply not determined by the number of different scale degrees per downbeat!

In other words, this ends up merely a matter of individual taste.

The best evidence I could give to counter the theory, is that the two "inferior" -supposedly less flowing,less catchy- themes (Star Wars & Superman) happen to be two of the most immediately recognizable themes in our musical culture (that doesn't mean you have to like them, but it reduces the theory to a personal preference).

Well, yes I'd agree that it's not a theory that objectively says what themes are better than others (I doubt there is one), which necessarily means that it is just a personal preference. But I can at least better articulate why that is rather than just saying "not my cup of tea."

The "flow" that I'm looking for in melodies is actually separate from their catchiness. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but there are a lot of catchy melodies that don't appeal to me. So just to be clear, I'm not supposing that the Williams melodies are less catchy.

As for a theme's recognizability in our musical culture as validation of its quality, I would just suggest that that's probably more correlated with the success of the films they've been written for. Any theme that passes a certain threshold of quality would be well-remembered if the film was an enormous success. Granted, the threshold is high, but plenty of composers can clear it.

And I'm not saying the Williams melodies are holistically inferior, even if I don't like them very much. A melody has a lot of aspects, contour, rhythmic diversity, rhythmic cohesion, motivic unity, its harmonization potential, and we all weigh each aspect differently according to our personal preferences. I place a lot of weight in this "flow" (it's a clumsy word, and I'm open to any suggestions for a better one), and I finally figured out what it is, and that Superman and Star Wars are less than impressive in this one very limited aspect.

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I remember listening to a live film music concert on the radio performed by the youth LSO, and afterwards they interviewed some of the players, and they all seemed eager to say how deceptively simplistic the fanfares of Star Wars and Superman are - because they couldn't believe how wonderfully satisfying they were to actually play.

I don't think that kind of enthused reaction warrants a "less than impressive" summary of the writing.

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Cheers for linking to your interesting writeup. I'm not trained so I don't know much about musical theory and its correct terminology, but in layman's speak I would say that certain great themes are often deceptively predicable and even inevitable in structure, but that is obviously only touching on the form and melodic flow of a given theme, so what else seems to be key in their design? Well I've noticed that some of the greatest themes implement the 'trick' (technique) of building their melody using notes which sit within two keys (on piano) of the starting note before leaping up the scale to a C or G Major for that satisfying emotional 'hook' - which is the precise moment where the aforementioned "inevitability" comes in. I don't know for sure what it is about that compositional sorcery which makes us especially receptive to those sudden high notes, but my theory is that we are programmed somehow to respond to harmonic sounds of triumphant elation, celebration and deliverance. It's in our DNA, and shrewd composers might strive to tap into that and exploit it.

This only lightly describes my thoughts on more tonally rousing melodics, which is what Williams and Goldsmith famously succeed in. There's much more to it of course, and especially when thinking about the many different melodic and tonal approaches involved in a theme's aesthetic design, but I just wanted to share my own basic observations.

That's a very interesting thing I've not thought about before. I'll definitely listen for it and reflect on that. Re: your thoughts on predictability and inevitability, I think Star Wars is a very excellent example of a leap that combines both predictability and unpredictability. C------G-------FED*C----G-------. The F, E, and D begin a step-wise motion downwards that makes the next stepwise pitch down, C, seem inevitable. But instead the melody leaps UP to a high C which is surprising to the ear. This leap is then repeated 3 times so that we get used and adjusted to the unpredictable movement. But as everything in art is a balance, what you give up with that repetition is that flow/lyricism that I prioritize in my own melodic preference.

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I remember listening to a live film music concert on the radio performed by the youth LSO, and afterwards they interviewed some of the players, and they all seemed eager to say how deceptively simplistic the fanfares of Star Wars and Superman are - because they couldn't believe how wonderfully satisfying they were to actually play.

I don't think that kind of reaction warrants a "less than impressive" summary of the writing.

Perhaps a poor choice of words then. I don't mean less than impressive as a euphemism for not good, therefore poor. I literally mean that they don't impress me. There are a lot of good themes that I like that don't impress me, but there are only a handful of themes that really make me stop what I'm doing and think "Wow, I wish I could do that but have no earthly idea how."

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Confession, I don't actually know his music that well because I don't think I've ever watched a film he's scored other than Mission to Mars, and I vaguely recall not liking that score too much. Gabriel's Oboe from the Mission is nice, but never compelled me to go explore more. I probably should, but just no spaghetti westerns please. I think his spaghetti western music is actually a big reason I don't know more about his thematic style.

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Interesting post. I don't think I quite buy the theory though. There is a lot more to melodic structure and flow than just differing melodic downbeats. And I'm not sure how valid that component would be as an objective criteria for how lyrical a theme is, let alone how great it is.

A lot of the truth lies in what Quint posted above. Resonating themes are built from predictable structures, and familiar intervals. Fanfares built on perfect fifths (Superman, Star Wars, etc), love themes possible in minor intervals, and so forth. They're all pre-established tricks. It's just how the composer chooses to put those tricks together to form that "perfect" tune.

And I didn't know Bear was a "great melodist". ;)

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I've been wondering for a long time why a Goldsmith theme is just able to magically soar and emote in ways that I don't hear from most melodies, and what I can learn from them for writing my own music.

I dunno, not being drunk when he wrote it? I read his later years were poor because of alcool

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And I didn't know Bear was a "great melodist". ;)

Randy Newman and Jeff Rona are also great melodists. ;)

Haha, Randy's a great songwriter, and Jeff is a great sound designer. But wait, does no one else think Bear has a gift for melody?

Interesting post. I don't think I quite buy the theory though. There is a lot more to melodic structure and flow than just differing melodic downbeats. And I'm not sure how valid that component would be as an objective criteria for how lyrical a theme is, let alone how great it is.

A lot of the truth lies in what Quint posted above. Resonating themes are built from predictable structures, and familiar intervals. Fanfares built on perfect fifths (Superman, Star Wars, etc), love themes possible in minor intervals, and so forth. They're all pre-established tricks. It's just how the composer chooses to put those tricks together to form that "perfect" tune.

And I didn't know Bear was a "great melodist". ;)

Yeah, there definitely is so much more to melody and so many different ways to look at and analyze them. It's very subjective, but for the melodies I'm naturally drawn to this was an element I considered important without really knowing that I did. It's been especially helpful for me as I look back at my own melodies I've written and realized I was struggling with them because they were too static.

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Haha, Randy's a great songwriter, and Jeff is a great sound designer. But wait, does no one else think Bear has a gift for melody?

I will say that his theme for FOX's Human Target is an earworm if there ever was one.

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The secret sauce in a great Goldsmith theme

It's a combination of Thousand Island dressing and Red Bull.

I will say that his theme for FOX's Human Target is an earworm if there ever was one.

Great show. Great opening sequence. And absolutely a great theme.

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And I didn't know Bear was a "great melodist". ;)

And Goldsmith, and i love the man, wasn't necessarily one, either. Of course he could churn out a memorable movie theme in a heartbeat but within a legacy of Steiners, Tiomkins, Newmans, Rozsas, Barrys, Williams'ses, Horners and so on...and that doesn't even account for the baker's dozen of great musical composers...did Goldsmith really wrote the most distinctive themes?? I mean, really...

Goldsmith generally surpassed others when he had to musically catch a darker vibe or something like FIRST BLOOD's male desperation (also listen to THE EDGE) but often when he tried for MELODIC, the results could range from atrocious (BAD GIRLS or ANGIE, anyone?) to simply banal (several love themes).

To choose SUPERGIRL as the olympic benchmark, one of the more disposable scores from his 80's period that in a somewhat disenchanted way tries to copy Williams, is just to twee for words.

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Only an idiot would doubt THE FINAL CONFLICT, it's Jerry riffing on Shostakovich so it's brilliant...but again: a brilliant THEME? It's more a great motif like Herrmann's CAPE FEAR main theme.


And: i forgot Mancini. And Morricone.

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Agreed pub. I get why his fans love them, but I don't think Goldsmith was the strongest of the bunch when it came to melody either. Especially when it came to some of the more cringe-worthy sweet-tooth stuff. And when it came to "heroic" melodies, those typical interval jumps (The Wind and the Lion, Lionheart, etc etc) make his theme-writing sometimes seem a bit banal when compared to the likes of Williams, Rozsa, Hermann, etc.

Goldsmith's strength was always in colour. He knew how to work that palette.

He's produced an admirable number of gold-tunes now and then though (Rudy, The Edge, etc).

And no, Bear's name never comes to mind when you mention great tune-smiths. The Human Target theme is a good one though.

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I only meant that a truly great JG theme must have lots of brass. Agreed: "TFC" is a great piece of music, but is it a fantastic theme? KK's right: JG's strength was in getting "inside" a character musically. "Patton" bears that out supremely.

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And Goldsmith, and i love the man, wasn't necessarily one, either. Of course he could churn out a memorable movie theme in a heartbeat but within a legacy of Steiners, Tiomkins, Newmans, Rozsas, Barrys, Williams'ses, Horners and so on...and that doesn't even account for the baker's dozen of great musical composers...did Goldsmith really wrote the most distinctive themes?? I mean, really...

*Most* distinctive? Probably not. Very distinctive? Often enough. More organic than those of most film composers, and yet often highly melodic and catchy.

The Supergirl theme makes for a great concert encore piece, I love Bad Girls, and as for Final Conflict, the workout it gets in The Monastery and The Hunt surely shows that it is indeed a great theme.

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Read the introductory piece, it basically claims SUPERGIRL is a hell of a theme and tops either Williams 70's benchmark. It's all about perspective, dear.

I don't fully agree with the article's preferences (and I'd never call Star Wars a non-great or non-favourite theme), but I still think there's more to many of Goldsmith's themes than you made it sound like.

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Well, I have to confess that my own reaction to the themes given would be so contrary as to seem completely inverse: The two finest themes are the ones listed as inferior, and subsequently, I call a gigantic BOGUS on this supposed theory of "flow":

Agreed. Likewise, I don't care much for the SUPERGIRL, THE RIVER WILD (both Goldsmith on autopilot) or the SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES themes, either. The only truly 'great' theme among these is the one for the Enterprise.

Where's CHINATOWN? PATTON? THE FINAL CONFLICT? A PATCH OF BLUE? ISLANDS IN THE STREAM? BASIC INSTINCT? ALIEN? The Love Theme from CAPRICORN ONE? Are they inferior or do they simply not fit this bizarre theory that a memorable, lyrical theme requires each downbeat to contain a new note.

Why not pay attention to the harmony? One of the characteristic features of Goldsmith's militaristic fanfare themes is the second chord being a flattened subtonic (VIIb) over a tonic pedal--both ST:TMP and SUPERGIRL share this (as do many Hugo Friedhofer themes, who no doubt influenced Jerry--the Lydian supertonic or #II over a tonic pedal is more the domain of John Williams and James Horner), along with a compound duple/quadruple metre.

Never neglect the power of harmony or rhythm or even orchestration when it comes to creating memorable themes. A skilled composer will use these as equal partners along with a melody, to realise his vision in sound.

And why is this perfectly fine Aeolian Cadence given an F?

cropped-parallel-everything-header-squar

:bash:

Only an idiot would doubt THE FINAL CONFLICT, it's Jerry riffing on Shostakovich so it's brilliant...but again: a brilliant THEME? It's more a great motif like Herrmann's CAPE FEAR main theme.

Homage to Alexander Nevsky or not... it's a theme. An 8 bar theme in Cm (4 bars consisting of an antecedent and a consequent phrase--a call and response--transposed almost identically down a tone in Bbm for the remaining 4 bars) , followed by a modulating 4 bar bridge, in turn followed by a restatement of theme up a whole tone in Dm, concluding with a 4 bar coda climaxing on Fm.

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Only an idiot would doubt THE FINAL CONFLICT, it's Jerry riffing on Shostakovich so it's brilliant...but again: a brilliant THEME? It's more a great motif like Herrmann's CAPE FEAR main theme.

And: i forgot Mancini. And Morricone.

Where is the Shosti? I hear more Vaughan Williams modality than Shosti. Much Star Trek TMP in this one but that's a magnificent score and this feels like a sequel to that.

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Where is the Shosti? I hear more Vaughan Williams modality than Shosti. Much Star Trek TMP in this one but that's a magnificent score and this feels like a sequel to that.

He probably means Prokofiev with the basses and tenors chanting, but I hear you re: the RVW. When I first discovered THE FINAL CONFLICT (about 4 or 5 years ago) my mind went straight the magnificent opening of A Sea Symphony. Also, that declamatory figure with the horns and muted trombones is pure Mahler.

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Where is the Shosti? I hear more Vaughan Williams modality than Shosti. Much Star Trek TMP in this one but that's a magnificent score and this feels like a sequel to that.

He probably means Prokofiev with the basses and tenors chanting, but I hear you re: the RVW. When I first discovered THE FINAL CONFLICT (about 4 or 5 years ago) my mind went straight the magnificent opening of A Sea Symphony. Also, that declamatory figure with the horns and muted trombones is pure Mahler.

Right. Prokof's Alexander Nevsky's Battle on the Ice and Goldsmith's "The Brooding" are very similar but to me they are just kindred spirits so I tend to ignore the similarities sort of how I would ignore some Borodin and Rimsky-Korsakov overlapping. They have their differences but are essentially kindred spirits.

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And why is this perfectly fine Aeolian Cadence given an F?

cropped-parallel-everything-header-squar

:bash:

Only an idiot would doubt THE FINAL CONFLICT, it's Jerry riffing on Shostakovich so it's brilliant...but again: a brilliant THEME? It's more a great motif like Herrmann's CAPE FEAR main theme.

Homage to Alexander Nevsky or not... it's a theme. An 8 bar theme in Cm (4 bars consisting of an antecedent and a consequent phrase--a call and response--transposed almost identically down a tone in Bbm for the remaining 4 bars) , followed by a modulating 4 bar bridge, in turn followed by a restatement of theme up a whole tone in Dm, concluding with a 4 bar coda climaxing on Fm.

I totally agree that it's perfectly fine. But it's a parallel everything, which my professors hate.

Where's CHINATOWN? PATTON? THE FINAL CONFLICT? A PATCH OF BLUE? ISLANDS IN THE STREAM? BASIC INSTINCT? ALIEN? The Love Theme from CAPRICORN ONE? Are they inferior or do they simply not fit this bizarre theory that a memorable, lyrical theme requires each downbeat to contain a new note.

Why not pay attention to the harmony? One of the characteristic features of Goldsmith's militaristic fanfare themes is the second chord being a flattened subtonic (VIIb) over a tonic pedal--both ST:TMP and SUPERGIRL share this (as do many Hugo Friedhofer themes, who no doubt influenced Jerry--the Lydian supertonic or #II over a tonic pedal is more the domain of John Williams and James Horner), along with a compound duple/quadruple metre.

Never neglect the power of harmony or rhythm or even orchestration when it comes to creating memorable themes. A skilled composer will use these as equal partners along with a melody, to realise his vision in sound.

Chinatown would fit, so would Patton, Final Conflict, Patch of Blue. Don't know the the theme from Islands or Capricorn. Basic Instinct and Alien would. Just to be clear I'm not saying each downbeat needs to have a new note. But I am saying that my preferences lead me to be less impressed with melodies that sit on the same note for too many downbeats in a row (the string line after the fanfare in Clear and Present Danger, the theme for Total Recall).

I've also not made any reference to a melodies' memorability, as that's a separate aspect from the lyricism that I look for. I do mention, though, that "catchiness" is a crowd favorite in terms of what people consider important in a melody - it just happens to not be my top priority, which is why I'm drawn to something else in melodies.

Finally, I'm not addressing the question what makes a great theme because you're right, harmony is a HUGE factor, along with orchestration, structure, rhythmic motifs, and so on. I'm just looking at one aspect (downbeat pitches) of one component (melody) of a theme. And because lyricism is important to me in melody, I discovered that I'm less drawn to a melody that sits on the same down beat note for too long. This doesn't preclude the possibility that if other aspects of the theme are amazing, I'll still like the theme (Total Recall again, "This is Berk" from How to Train Your Dragon). I'll just like it without being super impressed by the lyricism of the melody.

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And why is this perfectly fine Aeolian Cadence given an F?

cropped-parallel-everything-header-squar

:bash:

Only an idiot would doubt THE FINAL CONFLICT, it's Jerry riffing on Shostakovich so it's brilliant...but again: a brilliant THEME? It's more a great motif like Herrmann's CAPE FEAR main theme.

Homage to Alexander Nevsky or not... it's a theme. An 8 bar theme in Cm (4 bars consisting of an antecedent and a consequent phrase--a call and response--transposed almost identically down a tone in Bbm for the remaining 4 bars) , followed by a modulating 4 bar bridge, in turn followed by a restatement of theme up a whole tone in Dm, concluding with a 4 bar coda climaxing on Fm.

I totally agree that it's perfectly fine. But it's a parallel everything, which my professors hate.

Then your professors are fools! Parallelism (whether diatonic or chromatic) is awesome. Just think what the Ark Theme from ROTLA, the Rebel Fanfare from SW or the theme from TLW would be without it.

Where's CHINATOWN? PATTON? THE FINAL CONFLICT? A PATCH OF BLUE? ISLANDS IN THE STREAM? BASIC INSTINCT? ALIEN? The Love Theme from CAPRICORN ONE? Are they inferior or do they simply not fit this bizarre theory that a memorable, lyrical theme requires each downbeat to contain a new note.

Why not pay attention to the harmony? One of the characteristic features of Goldsmith's militaristic fanfare themes is the second chord being a flattened subtonic (VIIb) over a tonic pedal--both ST:TMP and SUPERGIRL share this (as do many Hugo Friedhofer themes, who no doubt influenced Jerry--the Lydian supertonic or #II over a tonic pedal is more the domain of John Williams and James Horner), along with a compound duple/quadruple metre.

Never neglect the power of harmony or rhythm or even orchestration when it comes to creating memorable themes. A skilled composer will use these as equal partners along with a melody, to realise his vision in sound.

Chinatown would fit, so would Patton, Final Conflict, Patch of Blue. Don't know the the theme from Islands or Capricorn. Basic Instinct and Alien would. Just to be clear I'm not saying each downbeat needs to have a new note. But I am saying that my preferences lead me to be less impressed with melodies that sit on the same note for too many downbeats in a row.

I've also not made any reference to a melodies' memorability, as that's a separate aspect from the lyricism that I look for. I do mention, though, that "catchiness" is a crowd favorite in terms of what people consider important in a melody - it just happens to not be my top priority, which is why I'm drawn to something else in melodies.

Finally, I'm not addressing the question what makes a great theme because you're right, harmony is a HUGE factor, along with orchestration, structure, rhythmic motifs, and so on. I'm just looking at one aspect (downbeat pitches) of one component (melody) of a theme. And because lyricism is important to me in melody, I discovered that I'm less drawn to a melody that sits on the same down beat note for too long. This doesn't preclude the possibility that if other aspects of the theme are amazing, I'll still like the theme. I'll just like it without being super impressed by the lyricism of the melody.

Fair enough. Now you put it like that, I agrere. :)

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Where is the Shosti?  I hear more Vaughan Williams modality than Shosti.  Much Star Trek TMP in this one but that's a magnificent score and this feels like a sequel to that.

 

He probably means Prokofiev with the basses and tenors chanting, but I hear you re: the RVW. When I first discovered THE FINAL CONFLICT (about 4 or 5 years ago) my mind went straight the magnificent opening of A Sea Symphony. Also, that declamatory figure with the horns and muted trombones is pure Mahler.

 

 

 

Probably not. Listen carefully:

 

 

Read the introductory piece, it basically claims SUPERGIRL is a hell of a theme and tops either Williams 70's benchmark. It's all about perspective, dear.

I don't fully agree with the article's preferences (and I'd never call Star Wars a non-great or non-favourite theme), but I still think there's more to many of Goldsmith's themes than you made it sound like.

You musn't tell me, i wrote laudatios for most of them. I just think it's not doing Goldsmith a great service to sell him as something he ain't and certainly never ever aspired to. He wrote mostly brilliantly catchy stuff but as some other posters said, if you look at the often perfunctory bridges you can see that he never strived for fully developed THEMES in the capital sense and when he had to write them - those 80's with Williams as mighty shadow hanging over him -it never feels very organic to JG's writing.

Bottom line: of course JG wrote great catchy tunes, riffs and motifs but to claim he lavished time on honing great and developed main themes that live into eternity - or indeed follows some mysterious principle - i don't hear it.

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He probably means Prokofiev with the basses and tenors chanting, but I hear you re: the RVW. When I first discovered THE FINAL CONFLICT (about 4 or 5 years ago) my mind went straight the magnificent opening of A Sea Symphony. Also, that declamatory figure with the horns and muted trombones is pure Mahler.

On the other hand, The Monastery is as Brucknerian as Goldsmith ever got.

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